Naming of Surfing Secret Spots

lightening

You hardly think my post about Kerry was advertising st. Finnians bay. Do you? All I said was it looked good.

Enygma

It's the actual mentioning of it that is the problem though. That's enough to get people going! Sounds daft I know!

challengemaster

Boston wrote:

Boards.ie is a privately operated site, your guidelines meaning nothing in. We don't have to fall in line with other sites.

and that pretty much sums it up. Unless its law, or in the rules of this site, then anyone is perfectally free to post it here. nothing you say about 'general surf rules or guidelines' or 'it cant be talked about if its not in XYZ handbook' means nothing here. If they don't want to talk about certain places, all well and good for them, they can't dictate what others do. (nor can you, with threatning people) while there may be a general etiquette, that has no bearings on any part of this site.

Boston

Amz wrote:

Boston, I don't know how you can defend the unwritten rule about certain topics not being discussed on Airsoft and flout the unwritten rules that the surfing community have. Several of them have come on here to try and ask that you respect that and I really can't understand why people are so antagonised by that.

Theres alot to be said for how things are done.

I've no problem problem with things being off limits to discuss. I also have no problem with unwritten rules. This one is elitism dressed up as public safety which Is what I initially did have a problem with. But even that would have been ok if the mod backed it. My problem is with the threat. Its with the person that made it, and the people that seem to think its ok to use intimidation to get what you want.

Additionally, most of the off limits topics on the Airsoft forum relate to legal issues or actual safety issues. People are told what the issue is when their posts are edited. They certainly aren't told "just because" like some posters have tried here.

seamus

Enygma wrote:

There is also an element of greed to it. Surfing is very very precious to the people that do it day in day out, people who live their lives just for the surf. It's very easy to lose sight of the Real World when you get wrapped up in it.

Well speaking on a more general POV as opposed to this specific issue, I've seen this kind of mindset in the past with similar activites such as skateboarding and BMX.
It's a complete pain in the ass to arrive to your favourite trails and find out that a bunch of kids have seen it and have mobbed it. But it's a matter of deciding what you're going to do. Are you going to act like an ass to the newbies, or are you going to ride with them and encourage them to love the sport like you do? I've been on both sides, and there's nothing worse than some elitist idiot who thinks he's above helping newbies and that he owns a spot. There's also plenty of satisfaction in befriending newbies and seeing them get good at what they do.

The former idiot kills a sport, he turns it into something which discourages new members and makes it stagnate.

From what I've heard, surfing is getting big in Ireland, so there's no point in trying to stave off the inevitable. Decide what you're going to do. Maybe get the ISA to establish themselves as a sport authority, grade *all* known surfing spots, establish a standard grading system, and erect signs to that effect at all of these spots. The more experienced surfers will find that the tougher spots will tend to have less people because the less experienced know to stay way.

smashey

Boston wrote:

My problem is with the threat. Its with the person that made it, and the people that seem to think its ok to you intimidation to get what you want.

I'm with Boston here. The guy named and threatened the mod of the surfing forum. That was totally out of order.

lightening

Enygma wrote:

It's the actual mentioning of it that is the problem though. That's enough to get people going! Sounds daft I know!

Ah please, your a reasonable fella, given me lots of advice and help. Mentioning it did nothing, no one pm'd me, no one said "hey wheres this place?" It went unnoticed until this hullaballo! AND... it was empty when I was there, not a soul! This localism is crap. Its selfish and petty.

local surfer

Boston,

I think everyone agrees that threats are unacceptable.

However, please do not let that detract from the debate.

Seamus, you are missing the point of the ISA stance (so eloquently put by Enygma). The idea is to protect the mystique, the isolation, and pure stoke of surfing within Ireland and being able to discover (for yourself) spots and hopefully surf them relatively uncrowded. That is what accounts for the majority of surf tourism within Ireland, those seeking something different. Everyone else just heads off somehwere warm to surf. Beginners are actively encouraged, and the rules of surfing are distributed by the ISA in a very good leaflet. There are safety aspects that have already been covered.

Skateboarding and BMX'ing are something I did when I was a kid, and certainly bear no real resemblence to surfing, except perhaps in their commercial portrayal.

PeakOutput

I can understand why the surfers dont want the spots getting out to the general public and from the surfers i know there does not seem to be any problem with anyone surfing anywhere AS LONG as they are not biting off more than they can chew and they follow the general etiquette.

it seems to me that there is a natural progression in surfing in that as you get better you will talk to more people in the know who will then recommend the next spot for you to try in general conversation and so on and so forth. what annoys them is when people skip this natural progression and two weeks after buying a board they are "living the life" and doing as they please.

I don't think there should be a problem with anyone mentioning any beach they came across on their own. I think that someone being told of a nice spot by a local (a show of respect alot would say) that he should not be "allowed" to post on the net saying "so and so told me about this spot lets all get down for the summer".

i think the locals reaction to the original thread is ridicolous no1 would of known that this spot was as good as it is from the op's first comment that it was good. this is one persons opinion. but now it is very clear that a large minority of surfers really rate this place and now people are more likely to take notice.

smashey

local surfer wrote:

The idea is to protect the mystique, the isolation, and pure stoke of surfing within Ireland and being able to discover (for yourself) spots and hopefully surf them relatively uncrowded.

Pretentious.

What seems to be happening is you want to keep it all to yourselves. If surfing is so enjoyable then why not spread the word?

local surfer

smashey wrote:

Pretentious.

What seems to be happening is you want to keep it all to yourselves. If surfing is so enjoyable then why not spread the word?

Moi, pretentious?:D .

PeakOutput

smashey wrote:

Pretentious.

What seems to be happening is you want to keep it all to yourselves. If surfing is so enjoyable then why not spread the word?

the point is it is enjoyable in ireland for a very specific reason.

the reason is the beaches are usually very quiet. this reason to surf inireland will disappear if they do a mass advertising and pr job with surfing as everyone will try it for a while and the beaches will be filled with beginners constantly some will stick with it but most wont

lightening

PeakOutput wrote:

...but most wont

Exactly, and you will have the breaks all to yourself again!

Anway, lets be honest. The beginers usually hang around in the white stuff, they don't get out that far. The more expertienced are out in the green waiting for the sets. When I make it out past the surf to where the "experts" are there is always lots of room.

PeakOutput

lightening wrote:

Exactly, and you will have the breaks all to yourself again!

Anway, lets be honest. The beginers usually hang around in the white stuff, they don't get out that far. The more expertienced are out in the green waiting for the sets. When I make it out past the surf to where the "experts" are there is always lots of room.

no but if a deliberate effort is made to promote it then in theory there will be a constant stream of beginners or at least a very constant stream of people who surf once or twice a year and are very inexperienced and basically beginners even though they have not compeltely given it up.......that was my point sorry for not being clear and also like i said im not a surfer

smashey

PeakOutput wrote:

no but if a deliberate effort is made to promote it then in theory there will be a constant stream of beginners or at least a very constant stream of people who surf once or twice a year and are very inexperienced and basically beginners even though they have not compeltely given it up.......that was my point sorry for not being clear and also like i said im not a surfer

You were a beginner once.

local surfer

lightening wrote:

Exactly, and you will have the breaks all to yourself again!

Anway, lets be honest. The beginers usually hang around in the white stuff, they don't get out that far. The more expertienced are out in the green waiting for the sets. When I make it out past the surf to where the "experts" are there is always lots of room.

The debate has nothing to do with beginners, and in fact the white water can be the most dangerous place at most spots. Its where most surfers will be looking to pull into the final close out, or hit the lip, ie the stage of the wave where a surfer is likely to have the least control.

local surfer

smashey wrote:

You were a beginner once.

Did he not say that he is not a surfer?.

seamus

local surfer wrote:

Seamus, you are missing the point of the ISA stance (so eloquently put by Enygma). The idea is to protect the mystique, the isolation, and pure stoke of surfing within Ireland and being able to discover (for yourself) spots and hopefully surf them relatively uncrowded. That is what accounts for the majority of surf tourism within Ireland, those seeking something different.

To the detriment of the sport's development here? It's hard to argue against a sport becoming more popular - the standard of competition goes up, the standard of awareness goes up, the cost of equipment plummets, the availability of equipment skyrockets, and there's money to be made by those who really love the sport.
Again, I can't see the benefit to the sport at large of maintaining a secret list of elite spots.

Skateboarding and BMX'ing are something I did when I was a kid, and certainly bear no real resemblence to surfing, except perhaps in their commercial portrayal.

My point was referring to the evolution of niche sports, not specifically comparing the sports themselves.

longboardirelan

I still believe my initial request was a fair one and I was polite. I never said dont not come, locals only etc. All I asked for was the posts were edited. Its now somehow turned into an anti beginner thing which was never mentioned either. In my original pm to the moderator I did mention problems that are occuring at this location - vandalism and litter problems which surfers are been blamed for and advertising sensitive spots like this doesnt help imho, and it really is a dangerous beach. Also I feel I was suckered into posting here on the feedback forum, the implication being that it was a forum for moderators/admins to discuss issues, not for everyone else who doesnt understand surf etiquette to gang up on me and the others who agree that the name should just be removed. Renaming the original post also was very antagonistic- this discussion should have stayed on the surfing forum - a moderator has alrady said its up to the forum mods to decide on the rules. Please lock or delete this thread and reopen the one on the surfing forum!

Also Lightening the reason I mentioned that I lived a mile from this beach was just to give "weight" to my request, not to infer that I have more right to surf there than anyone else. Chip shoulder anyone......

Finally I would like to meet Fuzzylogic and lightening to discuss this further in person. Please pm your phone numbers and the next time you are travelling the 250 miles from Dublin I'll hook up with you.

seamus

longboardirelan wrote:

Also I feel I was suckered into posting here on the feedback forum, the implication being that it was a forum for moderators/admins to discuss issues, not for everyone else who doesnt understand surf etiquette to gang up on me and the others who agree that the name should just be removed.

Any "ganging up on" is pure fantasy. There's no concerted effort here to disagree with you, just a number of posters giving their opinion. For reference, the feedback forum is for giving feedback for the site and discussing changes to individual forums. While it is essentially "Making a plea" to the admins, the idea of the forum is that any other users are also permitted to give their opinion on your feedback. This is a useful metric for knowing if someone is saying what the rest of the site believes, or just mouthing off for the sake of it.

FWIW, I think this is a very internal issue for surfing which has been cast out into the light under the view of people who perhaps think very differently to some of the surfing community. I still don't think it belongs on the surfing forum, as it is essentially a discussion on forum policy.

bushy...

FuzzyLogic wrote:

But to be honest, the more people post on the threads, the more googlebot, etc will pick up "surf st finians" and rank it.
(

Good prediction , ranked #1 already google for : secret surf spot kerry

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=secret+surf+spot+kerry&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryIE

local surfer

lightening wrote:

Nothing to do with beginers eh? Look, its pretty obvious what's going on here. Local breaks for locals. Kerry and Cork are the worst for it.

Fella, you have a huge chip on your shoulder for some reason, until you get rid of that weight, I dont think your surfing is going to progress much.

Have you had some kind of bad incident at some point?, whats your story?.

Again the original point, anyone can surf anywhere, just please do not publicise said spots on the internet.

longboardirelan

lightening wrote:

No mention of littering or vandalism in the private message longboard Ireland, the fact that you live 1 mile or 250 miles away from the break give no weight to your request to edit my passing mention of St. Finnians bay in my post.

After a few requests for you to tell us of the dangers of the break, you still havent bothered. This in my mind cements the fact that that is the least of your worries and you want to keep the break for yourself.

I don't really want to give you my phone number just yet. However I will PM you next time I will be in the area.

Surf safely....

In my original pm to fuzzylogic I mentioned the ongoing problems.

lightening

longboardirelan wrote:

In my original pm to fuzzylogic I mentioned the ongoing problems.

That's a real shame. Such a lovely spot. Edited.. off topic.

David Michael

For the record surfing is the number one cause of surf board related deaths.

Don't say you haven't been warned.

Kimbot

longboardirelan wrote:

I still believe my initial request was a fair one and I was polite. I never said dont not come, locals only etc. All I asked for was the posts were edited. Its now somehow turned into an anti beginner thing which was never mentioned either. In my original pm to the moderator I did mention problems that are occuring at this location - vandalism and litter problems which surfers are been blamed for and advertising sensitive spots like this doesnt help imho, and it really is a dangerous beach. Also I feel I was suckered into posting here on the feedback forum, the implication being that it was a forum for moderators/admins to discuss issues, not for everyone else who doesnt understand surf etiquette to gang up on me and the others who agree that the name should just be removed. Renaming the original post also was very antagonistic- this discussion should have stayed on the surfing forum - a moderator has alrady said its up to the forum mods to decide on the rules. Please lock or delete this thread and reopen the one on the surfing forum!

Also Lightening the reason I mentioned that I lived a mile from this beach was just to give "weight" to my request, not to infer that I have more right to surf there than anyone else. Chip shoulder anyone......

Finally I would like to meet Fuzzylogic and lightening to discuss this further in person. Please pm your phone numbers and the next time you are travelling the 250 miles from Dublin I'll hook up with you.

OK this post makes no sense at all!!

Right, surfers have their own "guidlines" saying that "secret spots" are not to be named???
Well I for one see this as insane to request for the location to be removed!! Its not your beach, nor is it anyone elses, its public and people can go there if they wish!
Your lame excuse at the fact "Surfers are getting blamed for littering etc" is pathetic, if you are so concerned about it then find out who is doing the littering and report them!

Boards.ie doesn't have to adhere to any guidelines set out by crowds they are not affiliated to and nor should they unless it is a law that has been passed.
This is typical of smallish groups in the world, they have their own ways that they don't want spoiled by people turning up there!!

Let it be and get on with your life because you are fighting a lossing battle at this stage, it has been decided that the location name can stay where it is!!
All you can do now is offer advise now on the location in question and if you are a decent person even offer people thinking about going surfing in that location a helping hand and maybe meet up with them to discuss your concerns and offer advice!! You never know you might even make a few more friends out of it!

Hagar

There's nothing in the Surfing Forum Charter that expressly forbids the naming of "secret" spots.

If you lay out clear rules people will have no choice but to follow them.
It's a bit unfair expecting people to guess what the un-written rules should be and then holding them accountable if they guess wrong.

Enygma

Absolutely, actually I did ask for it to be put into the charter when the forum was setup but the mod was having none of it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-2054984219.html

It's come up a few times and I've tried to state my case but to no avail. Most of the surfers on the forum are beginners and I've often helped them out and answered questions to the best of my ability. I'm not here to stop anyone from taking up surfing.

I would ask again that the wishes of the people who see surfing as more than just a sport you do at the weekend, be respected.

nesf

Enygma wrote:

I would ask again that the wishes of the people who see surfing as more than just a sport you do at the weekend, be respected.

There are similar arguments from walkers complaining about walking spots being crowded past the point that they can "get away from it all" or whatever. To an extent I understand and can relate to it but fundamentally these are public places where everyone has a right to visit. If someone names a place that is on private land then there is a good reason to remove it but I can't see a good reason for removing references to places on public land simply because long time or local surfers want to keep the place to themselves.

What gets under people's skin is the tendency to dress it up as safety arguments etc. What it actually boils down to is an attitude of "we were here first and we like it the way it is, so new people shouldn't be told about it". I can understand that attitude but I do not see why forums on here should be expected to support it or aid it.

SimpleSam06

local surfer wrote:

Fella, you have a huge chip on your shoulder for some reason, until you get rid of that weight, I dont think your surfing is going to progress much.... Again the original point, anyone can surf anywhere, just please do not publicise said spots on the internet.

Shades of point break here. Listen, if those knuckle dragging rustics that insist on "secret spots" (or they'll busht ya) can't share the sandbox with the rest of the kiddies, they'll have your toys taken away from them and be made to sit in the corner.

Enygma wrote:

I would ask again that the wishes of the people who see surfing as more than just a sport you do at the weekend, be respected.

Who are you to say what people can and can't do? Do you own the beach? Have land or passage rights on the property? No? Then you have nothing to say. I'm probably violating the surfers magic code like a sodomite in an ass factory here, but seriously. Cop on.