Irish Airforce Uniform

Hagar

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Terrontress

Well I can't see anything there but is it true that it used to be just two colours and was later expanded to the three which is there now?

And if so, what were the two colours?

What does a roundel signify that a flag does not? I suppose the current one looks a bit like a moving propellor. Is that what it is?

Hagar

Green and orange. I think it was changed because of an over similarity with the Korean ( Ying/Yang ) equivalent and for a desire to be more in keeping with the National Flag and our celtic identity. The roundel is based on a stylished celtic device called a trisket. Similarity to a propellor was probably a bonus and may well have influenced it's choice as an appropriate symbol for an Air Corps in the good old prop days.

I suspect that the main difference between a roundel and a flag is that a roundel is round and doesn't look odd viewed from different angles in the way that a flag would, particularly in an aerial context which is more three dimensional as opposed to ground forces who operate in a more two dimensional context.

Take the US flag for instance, when worn on the right sleeve of a uniform the stars are in the upper right hand corner of the flag. This looks wrong at first sight as we normally see the flag represented with the stars represented in the top left corner. The reason for this is simple. With the stars on the right the flag is facing in the direction the wearer is looking symbolising a forward motion with the flag flying to the rear. If the flag was facing the other way it would signify a rearward or retreating motion which is not how the US would like to portray themselves.

That's as much as you get from me. Any more and I start charging by the word. Extra for big words and double for links.

Steyr

Hagar wrote:

Similarity to a propellor was probably a bonus and may well have influenced it's choice as an appropriate symbol for an Air Corps in the good old prop days.

Dosent our Air Corps still live in those "prop" days..:mad: :eek:

FiSe

But now we have new era propeller days...

Roundel matters:

First IAC /was it Flying Corps back then?/ roundels were overpainted RAF roundels: Green outside, White, Orange in the centre, but latter the same year -1922- those tricoloured stripes /Irish flag/ were applied.

Then the combination of two coloured boss "roundel" and stripes, those roundels were placed on white square during the second war, or "emergency" if you wish to use irish term, as a sign of neutrality. I suspect, that here is the origin of three coloured boss as we know today, can't tell you any more at the moment, sorry.

bostonian

cp251 wrote:

bostonian, the PC-9 can pull +7 Gs and - 3.5. A G-suit would be handy at those stresses. The most I ever pulled was + 5. That was not so bad. It was the minus G that made me sick.:o While you can brace for high G, it's bit like constipation:( A G-suit saves all that effort.

I must correct on the US Air Corps thing. The US Army Air Corps was renamed the US Army Air Force in I think 1941, before their war anyway. I'm sure it's on net somewhere. It remained part of the army of course until after the war.

Otherwise you are correct. Incidentally I never did get the point of the new blue uniforms of the Air Corps. Why didn't they rename it as an air force when that happened?

Nothing to correct actually, I just didn't mention the AAF. While +7g's is impressive, it won't kill you- whereas what a jet aircraft making a sharp turn at mach 2 can. I believe the human threshold is somewhere around 11gs?

Slightly OT, but the new Lamborghini Reventon has a 3d G-meter to measure +/- G's as you turn. I don't need one, but I'd love to have one LOL

cp251

Discussion of the origin of Air Corps boss stirred some memories and I dug out my copy now disintegrating copy of 'An Irishman's aviation sketch book' by R W O'Sullivan. In it he described how he was asked to design a roundel for the Air Corps. He based on one he used when he made model aircraft. His name being O'Sullivan, he had a design of an O with an S superimposed, inspired by the designs in the book of kells. In In fact he actually designed a three colour but the Air Corps dropped the white and it became a two colour boss for camouflage reasons until the white square was added later. After the war his original three colour boss was re-instated. In fact in one of the paintings in the book he depicts a Gladiator in pre-war colours with a tricolour boss. I suspect that may be a mistake on his part due to faulty memory but who am I to judge. He did after all design the logo.

R. W. O'SULLIVAN, B.A., B.A.I., C.Eng., F.R.Ae.S. was the Inspector of Accidents who investigated the famous Tuskar rock Viscount accident.

I believe the only Air Corps aircraft with over painted British roundels was the single Se5 in service, which was in fact painted red.

Boston, I think the human threshold is a lot higher actually but you lose consciousness at around +11 gs even with a G-suit and training.

As for the Lamborghini, if I had to money to buy something that could pull that much G. It would probably be a Pitts or something. But I really would love a Bucker Jungmeister. If not then maybe an Extra or Su-29.

FiSe

Unfo there's no picture of this SE5a, but photographs are showing that the first Bristol/s?/ F2B was another example with overpainted RAF roundels - on top wing for sure, I believe it was the one which fought around Blessington.

Tony Kearns preparing article for Flying In Ireland magazine about IAC Gladiators and I made some profiles of them for him, so yes there's one with three coloured boss. But obviously don't want to talk about it before the article is published :rolleyes:

cp251

That's interesting FiSe. Never knew about the Bristol Fighter, it makes sense though. Interesting about the Gladiators with the three colour boss. Are there photos or is it based on the R W O'Sullivan's painting I wonder. But based on what O'Sullivan said, it is entirely possible that the Gladiators had three colour bosses for a time.

irishair100

hi can i get photo of the irish Air Corps' for my web site

all the best from irishair