Cz 6.5 x 55 ? any views ?

Sparks

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

I doubt it would chop two thirds of the speed of the round off!

Hezz700

Sparks wrote:

Can't think why a moderator would improve accuracy, unless it was dropping the speed of the round to subsonic before it left the barrel...

Why not?? The Moderator is channeling off excess gases and unburnt propellants(perhaps), which are unstable. Also most mods i've seen/used are precisely engineered with excellent crowns.

Sparks

the Moderator is channeling off excess gases and unburnt propellant(perhaps) with are unstable.

Well, yes, they're unstable - but they're also behind the bullet. And if you were getting non-negligible pressure differentials across the base of the bullet, you'd notice excessive crown wearing and you'd never have decent accuracy; and if you bled off the gas and unburnt propellant behind, you wouldn't do much good because you'd still have had that inital shove to one side of the base of the round in the barrel and unless the moderator is so well machined that the bullet is in as much contact with it as it was with the lands, getting rid of the thing that gave the shove won't fix the problem.

I just don't see it happening unless the moderator slows the bullet significantly (as rrpc said, it's unlikely to get it subsonic), or the moderator is so well machined that it's effectively an extention on the barrel.

Hezz700

It could be acting like a Boss system giving the perfect resonance for a particular barrall twist, bullet type combination?. that would'nt be unheard of:)

Sparks

I suppose that's possible, but then it's just the big lump of metal that's doing the tuning, it's got nothing to do with the fact that it's a moderator. Tyre balancing weights taped to the same spot would have the same effect.

Hezz700

Very true, but it does'nt take from the fact that if it works it works. be it a mod/lump of metal or a smarties tube.

.243

it reduces muzzle flip,when the bullet passes through the can the gas is held back in it so when you pull the trigger the recoil comes back square into your shoulder because its withheld in it.

Sparks

That wouldn't affect accuracy though 243, not unless you weren't seating the butt in your shoulder properly to begin with. Muzzle flip's only an issue with rapid-fire shooting.

Hezz700

Jayus Spark! There must be a bit of a terrier in you, you just won't let go:D

Just admiit its possible that, for whatever the reason may be mods can (and do) improve accurcacy;)

Sparks

Hezz, if they do, we ought to be able to figure out why. If you don't know why you do something, you may as well abandon pretending to know what you're doing and just label it magic and get it over with...

spideog7

Maybe it's all in your head, a slight apprehension of the big bang and kick, a tiniest of tiny flinch. But when you know it's just going to go "pop" then it's easier.

fathersymes

Extract from the article below:

One final advantage is that a sound moderator will improve accuracy and consistency shot to shot as the projectile exits the muzzle into still air within the moderator's chamber. This region of still air means the projectile always begins its flight in controlled and repeatable conditions, without the interference of any side winds or sudden gusts.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sound_moderators.htm

Hezz700

All i know is that my Remmy groups consistently 1/4" tighter at 300 meters with my Ultra s5 attached than without. FACT. if you want to call it magic fine:rolleyes:

I do not pretent to be all knowing but i've seen it with my own two eyes and therefore cannot dismiss theories just because they do not sit well in my little world.

Sparks

That's not a theory Hezz, it's an assumption.
How do you know that the rifle isn't in fact less accurate with the moderator on, but you don't flinch as much when you fire, giving you overall more accurate end results?
And if that is what happens, wouldn't the better idea be to train out the flinch and get even more accurate end results?

Wanting to know what's happening and why isn't a bad thing, y'know...

Keelan

Hezz700 wrote:

All i know is that my Remmy groups consistently 1/4" tighter at 300 meters with my Ultra s5 attached than without. FACT. if you want to call it magic fine:rolleyes:

I do not pretent to be all knowing but i've seen it with my own two eyes and therefore cannot dismiss theories just because they do not sit well in my little world.

Agree totally. I have shot with mod on, total difference. I have never sufferd from flinch. Its a fact, mods DO, improove accuracy, in centerfire and rimfire rifles.

Keelan.

Sparks

I have never sufferd from flinch.

How can you tell?

And if mods do improve accuracy in rimfire rifles, why aren't they the very first thing added to ISSF and Benchrest rifles? (Okay, maybe the ISSF one's not fair since they're against the rules, but Benchrest? If mods gave an accuracy improvement, I'd expect to see every benchrest rifle ever made having a moderator on it). I've looked, I can't find any studies showing that a moderator improves accuracy. The only place I've seen claims to that effect are on the websites and adverts of people selling suppressors, and you'll forgive me if I take those claims with a pinch of salt

Hezz700

I do not Suffer from a flinch factor. The Remmy i speak of is a .22 centerfire, hardly what you'd associate heavy recoil with( that was you making an assumption) and when firing unmoderated i very wisely use hearing protection which eliminates potential flinch due to sonic boom.

Wanting to know why is indeed a good thing,on that we do agree. But its not me sitting on the rocking horse with a closed mind

Sparks

Hezz700 wrote:

I do not Suffer from a flinch factor.

Good grief, have we found a new social taboo amongst shooters?
I don't Flinch, I've never even been flinch-curious!

The Remmy i speak of is a .22 centerfire, hardly what you'd associate heavy recoil with( that was you making an assumption)

Hezz, you have to train against flinching with air rifles, let alone any form of cartridge rifle!

and when firing unmoderated i very wisely use hearing protection which eliminates potential flinch due to sonic boom.

No, it doesn't. Flinch can be triggered by noise, yes, but also by the impact of the recoil, the visual cues of firing, any number of things.

Wanting to know why is indeed a good thing,on that we do agree. But its not me sitting on the rocking horse with a closed mind

If the closed mind is closed in that it won't accept an argument without evidence, then I'd like to be thought of as closed-minded please

Now, if you can show me the study that put a rifle action in a vice and fired on an indoor test range with the same batches of ammunition under the same conditions, both with and without a moderator and showed consistently over serveral batches that the moderator always improved accuracy, then I'm more than happy to say you're totally right and recommend one for anyone that can use one from that day onwards.

Hezz700

Flinch is caused by a person tensing up at the moment of firing. Its apprehension towards the bang, recoil etc etc. If you have a preconceived notion that the result of squeezing the trigger could be unpleasent, then you will flinch. I was always taught by my Granddad "hold firm but be relaxed" and it has held be good stead so far

The only thing that makes me flinch is a 30yr old 5lbs s/s Zabala, kick like a mule.

If i can find a suitable study, I'll wrap it up i a pink bow for you:)

Sparks

Its apprehension towards the bang, recoil etc etc.

Yup, exactly, and it doesn't have to be a lot of tensing to cause problems - even a little tensing can be a problem because it's never consistent; and it can happen with any kind of firearm, not just some big cannon of a yoke. And if you think you're not flinching, odds are, you are