Which "supercar" does slow the best?

smash

SGKM wrote:

I'd take the 911 turbo any day. I would have definately said that I preferred the Lambo before I drove them back to back.

quick someone get an exorcist... he's been taken over by the dark side! lol

SGKM

steve06 wrote:

quick someone get an exorcist... he's been taken over by the dark side! lol

Its bad isnt it????;)

But honestly I absolutely love the 911 Turbo, I'd sell my soul for a 997 Turbo!! (preferabley the S thats bound to come in the next year or so with the PCCB, power upgrade and an Aero Kit.)

CarLover

steve06 wrote:

I think there's a lot to do with how excluse and unique they are too...

I'd have to disagree. Exclusivity these days is usually down to how driveable it is and how many footballers desire it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar

"Supercar is a term used for a high-end sports car, typically an exotic or rare one, whose performance is highly superior to that of its contemporaries. The proper application of the term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. The use of the term is dependent on the era: a vehicle that is considered to be a supercar at one time may not retain its superiority in the future. The automotive press frequently calls new exotic cars "supercars"."

So I think it's okay to call a 911 a supercar.

Actually...I'd like to add that Noble make some seriously cool cars and of course a DB9 is an everyday car but it will fall apart. The 911 will outlive your children.
Also...there's a reason so many people own Porsches...because they're so damn good and they last forever. That's why you see so many.

smash

I'd probably find them more appealing if they updated the shape a lot more. I know it's an historic shape but for a car worth that much, and with a great engine I think it shouldn't fall into the crowd.

CarLover

steve06 wrote:

I'd probably find them more appealing if they updated the shape a lot more. I know it's an historic shape but for a car worth that much, and with a great engine I think it shouldn't fall into the crowd.

If you were CEO of Porsche I'm sure you think about it everyday...but if it aint broke why fix it. It's a beautiful shape. Getting that kinda styling right all over again could take them years.
Whether you like em or not they are very differently shaped to most other "supercars" and it makes them stand apart.

If you look at a 911 up close it is a beautiful car. It's just that we see so many we get very used to the shape. The Veyron for instance isn't actually all that good looking a car. It'd turn a lot of heads though due to it exclusivity and due to the fact that it was probably doing 200MPH at the time

tdc

My favorite Porsche ever is the 996 GT2, that is a real supercar. Same goes for the 997 GT2. Porsche 911's are not supercars, the GT2, GT3 and Turbo are exceptions.

On steve06's point about how exclusive they are, I think the turbo will not be considered a supercar for too long. compared to the 430 and gallardo the porsche outnumbers them both put together. It will lose it's appeal and will not be seen as desirable as the italians.

if youre walking down the road and you see a 430/gallardo on one side and a 997 turbo on the other, where are you going to go first?

however if it was a 996/997 GT2 across the road i would defenitely look at that first;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_GT2

Also, the only Aston i would ever consider to be close to a supercar is the new DBS, dont even think of the other two

prospect

The 911 is not a supercar, especially when compared to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Carrera_GT

smash

yeah each to their own I suppose, and they do sell well. Just missing something in my opinion... I do like them but if I had the money I'd spend it on something else.

smash

prospect wrote:

The 911 is not a supercar, especially when compared to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Carrera_GT

I'd consider the Porsche Carrera GT to be a Hyper car

peasant

steve06 wrote:

I'd probably find them more appealing if they updated the shape a lot more. I know it's an historic shape but for a car worth that much, and with a great engine I think it shouldn't fall into the crowd.

Ohhh ...nooo ...never !

The shape and the heritage are what make the 911. Most supercars are technological masterpieces, the 911 is a masterpiece with history !

prospect

steve06 wrote:

I'd consider the Porsche Carrera GT to be a Hyper car

Yeah, but I don't buy into the whole Hyper car thing.
All the new-fangled 'hyper-cars' are what I would call supercars.

To me super cars are:

Lambo: Countach, Diablo & Muircelago
Ferrari: F40, F50 & Enzo
Masser: MC12
Buggatti: EB110 & Veyron
Porsche: Carrera GT
Koeninsiggenseggening: Any

And a few others.

Sports Cars are:
All the rest.

peasant

prospect wrote:

To me super cars are:

Lambo: Countach, Diablo & Muircelago
Ferrari: F40, F50 & Enzo
Masser: MC12
Buggatti: EB110 & Veyron
Porsche: Carrera GT
Koeninsiggenseggening: Any

any of which would probably drive you to tears in a half hour stop and go at the toll booth

maidhc

Rovi wrote:

http://www.lambocars.com/tra/model.htm
http://www.duttondirect.com/history/view/make:lamborghini
http://www.italiancar.net/site/cars/lamborghini/index/lambo.html

Same founder, indeed, but the tractors are built by SDF and are badge engineered SAMEs. Unlike their road going cousins the tractors are nothing special, and are far inferior to what the like of the FIAT group build!

rowanh

prospect wrote:

To me super cars are:

Lambo: Countach, Diablo & Muircelago
Ferrari: F40, F50 & Enzo
Masser: MC12
Buggatti: EB110 & Veyron
Porsche: Carrera GT
Koeninsiggenseggening: Any

And a few others.

Sports Cars are:
All the rest.

Seems like a very short list, just off the top of my head would you not consider these supercars?

Ferrari 288 GTO
Pagani Zonda
Ascari AZ1
Mclaren F1
Any Noble
Lamborghini Miura
Detomaso Pantera
Lotec Sirius
Freestream T1

Or by a few do you mean tons?

tdc

rowanh wrote:

Seems like a very short list, just off the top of my head would you not consider these supercars?

Ferrari 288 GTO
Pagani Zonda
Ascari AZ1
Mclaren F1
Any Noble
Lamborghini Miura
Detomaso Pantera
Lotec Sirius
Freestream T1

Or by a few do you mean tons?

Best not get into a discussion about classic supercars, this thread could go on for years!

Kersh

Defo agree with the begrudgers comment earlier, lots of that about, as for supercars to drive everyday.., hmmm

911 is the only 1. bullet proof and mileage proof.

As for dream car.. it will be an F40.

prospect

rowanh wrote:

Seems like a very short list, just off the top of my head would you not consider these supercars?

Ferrari 288 GTO
Pagani Zonda
Ascari AZ1
Mclaren F1
Any Noble
Lamborghini Miura
Detomaso Pantera
Lotec Sirius
Freestream T1

Or by a few do you mean tons?

I was kind of avoiding Classic supercars (Lets say cars which ceased production pre 1980), because I would consider that another category, i.e, They were super compared to the competition at the time, but no longer hold their own.

However I will give you:

Pagini Zonda
McLaren F1
Ascari AZ1
Lambo: Countach, Diablo & Muircelago
Ferrari: F40, F50 & Enzo
Masser: MC12
Buggatti: EB110 & Veyron
Porsche: Carrera GT
Koeninsiggenseggening: Any


P

tdc

prospect wrote:

I was kind of avoiding Classic supercars (Lets say cars which ceased production pre 1980), because I would consider that another category, i.e, They were super compared to the competition at the time, but no longer hold their own.

However I will give you:

Pagini Zonda
McLaren F1
Ascari AZ1
Lambo: Countach, Diablo & Muircelago
Ferrari: F40, F50 & Enzo
Masser: MC12
Buggatti: EB110 & Veyron
Porsche: Carrera GT
Koeninsiggenseggening: Any


P

The Ascari isn't much of a "hypercar" - the performance is closer to a ferrari 430 than an enzo

prospect

tdc wrote:

The Ascari isn't much of a "hypercar" - the performance is closer to a ferrari 430 than an enzo

My list is based on my (developing) criteria. I did say earlier that I don't recognise the term 'HyperCar', I think it is a bit silly.
You say HyperCar, I say SuperCar.
You say SuperCar, I say SportsCar.

Ye geddit?

smash

tdc wrote:

The Ascari isn't much of a "hypercar" - the performance is closer to a ferrari 430 than an enzo

Well the 599 uses the enzo engine but you wouldn't call it a hyper car.

maidhc

steve06 wrote:

hypercar

Stupid word. I suggest it being added to the swear filter.

Cars have got faster... My Focus diesel is quicker and handles better than most "sports cars" of 30 years ago. It does not make it a sports car.

It stands to reason then that supercars have also got faster in the intervening decades. They are still only supercars though!

smash

maidhc wrote:

Stupid word. I suggest it being added to the swear filter.

Cars have got faster... My Focus diesel is quicker and handles better than most "sports cars" of 30 years ago. It does not make it a sports car.

It stands to reason then that supercars have also got faster in the intervening decades. They are still only supercars though!

agreed, but there are differnt levels... Take ferrari for example

355
360
F430

---

550
575
612
599

---

Enzo

maidhc

steve06 wrote:

agreed, but there are differnt levels... Take ferrari for example

355
360
F430

---

550
575
612
599

---

Enzo

Maybe the F355 is only a "sports car"

... or maybe even a warmed over hatch!

CarLover

If we're calling Ferrari's sports cars now...what do you call say a BMW 335i?

Surely sports car is your average expensive sports coupe.

Once you're up into the land of Ferraris, Astons & Porsche 911's you're in Supercar territory.

Hyper car makes perfect sense to me
Gallardo is a supercar. Murcielago is a hyper car.

The meaning of the words has morphed over the years...
Years back there were boggo cars and there were Lambo Muiras. The line was clear. It's not clear anymore...so there needs to be a grey scale as opposed to a black and white - that's a supercar and that isn't!

maidhc

CarLover wrote:

If we're calling Ferrari's sports cars now...what do you call say a BMW 335i?

...well considering a well sorted Golf GTI could eat a Ferrari Mondial... then why not call it a mere sports car.. or less!

Actually, to keep this on topic, the Mondial is probably the most sensible ferrari for "slow" driving!

CarLover

maidhc wrote:

...well considering a well sorted Golf GTI could eat a Ferrari Mondial... then why not call it a mere sports car.. or less!

Actually, to keep this on topic, the Mondial is probably the most sensible ferrari for "slow" driving!

You're comparing cars from different eras here. I don't see the point in doing that to prove your point.
A better example might be a modern day Ferrari with a Subaru Impreza/ Mitsu Evo...that's where pure speed doesn't maketh a super car.

tdc

prospect wrote:

Ye geddit?

yes i get you, just my point was that i don't think the ascari would be considered in the same category as the enzo/zonda/veyron

steve06 wrote:

Well the 599 uses the enzo engine but you wouldn't call it a hyper car.

so what if it has the same engine? the 599 engine is a detuned enzo engine. the performance figures on a 599 dont compare to those of an enzo.

maidhc

CarLover wrote:

You're comparing cars from different eras here. I don't see the point in doing that to prove your point.
A better example might be a modern day Ferrari with a Subaru Impreza/ Mitsu Evo...that's where pure speed doesn't maketh a super car.

I'd have thought a Golf GTI of the era would have been able for the Mondial!!!

But my idea of a "supercar" is something pretty exotic and exceedlingly fast. I don't see why an extra layer of complexity is needed with "hyper cars". In my eyes an F40 is a supercar... a 911 isn't... why? Because I see 911s in Tesco every other day, and apart from the originals of the 70s are less eyecatching than my Ford Capri

CarLover

maidhc wrote:

I'd have thought a Golf GTI of the era would have been able for the Mondial!!!

But my idea of a "supercar" is something pretty exotic and exceedlingly fast. I don't see why an extra layer of complexity is needed with "hyper cars". In my eyes an F40 is a supercar... a 911 isn't... why? Because I see 911s in Tesco every other day, and apart from the originals of the 70s are less eyecatching than my Ford Capri

Ah...didn't realise you were talking about the Mk1 Golf...my bad

I suppose it's horses for courses...doubt we'll ever get absolute agreement from people. Personally a 911 Turbo is definitely a supercar...just that there is a scale that now exists due to 30 odd years of supercar production and the many and varied breeds of "sports cars" that now exist.

Funxy

rowanh wrote:

Any Noble

Why a noble? If you have noble then you should have lotus and tvr too? Don't get me wrong it is a great car but definitly not a supercar i would think