Censorship on this forum

kevpatts

Why can I not speak of Mass CD/DVD duplication??

I have a legitimate reason to do this (album release) and will not be breaking any copyright laws.

Am I even allowed mention "DVD-R" these days on this site?

Please do not lock this thread. The subject of my discussion is your censorship, not non-existant copyright fraud.

Kevpatts

r3nu4l

Off to Feedback with you!

Cuddlesworth

Because for every legitimate thread there will be many many more illegal threads and posts.

jawlie

How can a thread be illegal, or what makes a thread illegal?

Spud83

jawlie wrote:

How can a thread be illegal, or what makes a thread illegal?

Advocating illegal activities. I am not saying that the OP is going to be doing anything illegal but the MODS know that if you allow one legal thread people will start posting threads that will advocat illegal ativities.

John

Hang on, there's been plenty of threads about (legitimate and legal) CD duplication. Not all CD copying is illegal and discussion of how to get an album pressed is well within the limits of many fora on boards (the recording and mixing and bands/musicians fora in music have both had various threads about it). Strange...

kevpatts

alanmurphy83 wrote:

MODS know that if you allow one legal thread people will start posting threads that will advocat illegal ativities.

this is fair enough, but if that was the case surely every thread regarding DVD-R drives should be locked along with any mention of them. I would almost guarantee that there are 500 people burning illegal CDs/DVDs for every person even thinking of building what I'm looking to build for legal behaviour.

seamus

I for one would be interested to see example of the threads that have been locked, or otherwise a pointer to forum policy on this.

kevpatts

John wrote:

the recording and mixing and bands/musicians fora in music have both had various threads about it

Thank you John, good point.

Spud83

kevpatts wrote:

this is fair enough, but if that was the case surely every thread regarding DVD-R drives should be locked along with any mention of them. I would almost guarantee that there are 500 people burning illegal CDs/DVDs for every person even thinking of building what I'm looking to build for legal behaviour.

Fair enough I dont know exactly why the OPs thread was locked/deleted and others haven't. But the seem to be making a difference between the "mass" duplication of DVDS and just the duplicaton of DVDs.

kevpatts

seamus wrote:

I for one would be interested to see example of the threads that have been locked, or otherwise a pointer to forum policy on this.

Some of mine in the last few days:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055145562
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055142979

L31mr0d

ok wth... 8T8 is usually a fair mod but there was no reason to lock that thread. A CD/DVD duplicator is NOT illegal, the building of one is NOT illegal. The hardware used or the medium burned to is NOT illegal.

Can someone show me where in the OP's thread there was anything illegal cited. Also who decides what an illegal amount of duplication is? Having 2 drives? 4 drives? 8 drives? Who decides?

Just because illegal things can be done with a CD/DVD duplicater doesn't mean they will. It's like banning discussion of how to use the internet because there is illegal material on it.

Plus i've seen many a thread go by dealing with how to use torrents, a much more hairy issue around legality, and they have been allowed to remain open.

Spud83

kevpatts wrote:

Some of mine in the last few days:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055145562
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055142979

Well after having one thread locked I would have advised you PM a mod to discuss with him. One of the problems with your posts is that you never stated the purpose of what you building was for, although I'm sure if this would have helped as he stated that the discussion of mass producing/copying of DVD/CDs isn't allowed. Boards is privately owned and if the MODS/Admins feel that they have to ban such posts to protect themselves legally the so be it.

EDIT: However if this is something than results in an automatic lock then it should be explicit in the charter that such a discussion is not allowed

Cuddlesworth

Lol, makes sense. Computer forums don't allow the discussion because most of the time its never for legal purposes but the music/band forums do.

L31mr0d

krazy_8s wrote:

Lol, makes sense. Computer forums don't allow the discussion because most of the time its never for legal purposes but the music/band forums do.

yeah but a musician shouldn't have to confine his questions about building a type of computer to the music fora. He should be allowed to post it in the "building and upgrading" section of the computer fora.

It might be better if the OP PM's 8T8 and requests that he be allowed to repost the thread detailing what LEGAL uses he intends it for.

kevpatts

alanmurphy83 wrote:

Well after having one thread locked I would have advised you PM a mod to discuss with him. One of the problems with your posts is that you never stated the purpose of what you building was for, although I'm sure if this would have helped as he stated that the discussion of mass producing/copying of DVD/CDs isn't allowed. Boards is privately owned and if the MODS/Admins feel that they have to ban such posts to protect themselves legally the so be it.

EDIT: However if this is something than results in an automatic lock then it should be explicit in the charter that such a discussion is not allowed

Yeah, I should have PM'd the MOD, you're right. To tell you the truth I didn't see the edit made in the top post as I followed a link tot he post below it and as I've never been locked before, I didn't know where to look. That's why I posted the other post (obliviously). I was also unaware that these machines were commonly used in Ireland, well, enough to be paranoid about discussing it anyway. I never even considered that they may be a policy about this.


I feel like I've been found guilty without trial here.

6th

But we have shooting forums ... about guns.

6th

Link?

Spud83

6th wrote:

But we have shooting forums ... about guns.

I dont see your point. Yes we have a shooting forum as it is valid sport, which people have an interest in.

Anti

I can see from a community point of view why the mod closed they thread, as this is treading thin water. All we have is the ops word it is for duplication of cd's for music he is involved in. But for all we know he could be downloading dvd rips from torrent sites and mass copying them and selling them on.

How are we to know which is the truth. Now i know i wont be looking for proof at all. I have posted on both of the OP's threads about helping him to find the hardware. As l31mr0d said, nothing the op has asked for is illegal in any way shape or form.

Now, if the OP had been here a few weeks i would have automaticially thought, yeah this fella is looking to make some cashola, but a fella that has been here 3 years would know better then that... I hope.

I can see this thread going into dodgy water to be honest, people siding with the mod, and people siding with the op.

I may be contradicting myself here, but i stand with the Mod, i think 8T8 made the right decission.

Talliesin

Actually, it doesn't really matter if the OP is planning to do something deeply illegal with them, they aren't illegal in themselves.

However, I could certainly see how someone could read over it quickly have alarm bells go off and then lock or delete the thread.

This looks like a mistake in execution of a perfectly good policy.

seamus

Talliesin wrote:

This looks like a mistake in execution of a perfectly good policy.

I agree.

cornbb

FWIW I wouldn't lock a legit CD duplication thread in the Recording forum unless there was a clear sign that discussion of illegal activity was underway or inevitable.

Thats just me though, whichever mod locked this ultimately has the call and no one but the admins can tell him otherwise. Seems a teeny bit overzealous to me though.

RE*AC*TOR

The threads look fine to me, seems like over-eager modding IMHO.

The burden of proof shouldn't be on to poster to convince the mod that his intentions are pure. Innocence should be assumed unless evidence to the contrary is posted. I'm sure I could ask in the DIY sections where to buy a crowbar - I shouldn't have to convince anyone that I'm not going to break into a shop with it.

bubonicus

OP , just take your question to the music forums. and just forget about this thread, your sanity will thank you after the third page of cat pics.

seamus

I should probably add something to my post - while I agree with Talliesin, it's something that I think could either be agreed upon between the OP and 8T8 - maybe PM him and explain, or the moderator can make clear the forum's position on it.

kevpatts

alanmurphy83 wrote:

I dont see your point. Yes we have a shooting forum as it is valid sport, which people have an interest in.

I think the point is that many things that are illegal in the wrong hands can and should be able to be discussed without assuming everyone is an evil criminal.

Just to clear something up. I'm not talking about the censorship of my specific threads any more. I'm more interested interested in discussing this comment:

alanmurphy83 wrote:

MODS know that if you allow one legal thread people will start posting threads that will advocat illegal ativities.

which would suggest that an OP can't discuss anything that is POTENTIALLY illegal.

No MODS have replied to the comments regarding discussing guns/torrent downloads etc., all potentially illegal discussions that go uncensored. Just because an illegal topic is popular doesn't mean it shouldn't be censored

OR

the flip side, just because I'm the only person seemingly asking this question doesn't mean I should be censored.

I personally believe nothing should be censored until it becomes illegal and when it does it should be deleted, not just locked.

I also believe the OP should always be given the benefit of the doubt, as MODS are there to facilitate OPs and also to enforce forum policy, which does not include judging OPs moral values.

Talliesin

kevpatts wrote:

which would suggest that an OP can't discuss anything that is POTENTIALLY illegal.

It would suggest that. Luckily it isn't true and potentially illegal things get discussed all the time.

Things that are clearly illegal get stomped on, generally deleted and sometimes with bans.

Things that are potentially illegal generally don't, though sometimes there's a history of a given topic almost always degenerating into a discussion of illegal uses and for that reason they also get locked.

Some of the more inexplicable rules you may find are a matter of a given topic tending to either degenerate into such discussions or otherwise becoming unpleasant in some way or another.

This still seems like it might be sorted by PMing the mod and saying "hey, I can see why you locked that, but I have a legitimate use for them [insert legitimate use], would it be possible for you to unlock it?".

kevpatts

Thanks, I have PM'ed the MOD explaining my reasons.

I would suggest that when there is vagueness over the legality of a thread or the intention of it's creator, that MODs should request clarification of the intent of the post before locking it, either in the thread or by PM.

Thanks for your help and concern,
Kevpatts

nesf

Talliesin wrote:

Some of the more inexplicable rules you may find are a matter of a given topic tending to either degenerate into such discussions or otherwise becoming unpleasant in some way or another.

Like mushroom hunting (*wink* *wink*)threads in AH. Genuine mushroom hunters (yes, they do exist) are disenfranchised but that's the way it has to be lest some muppet gets some bad advice and goes looking for a magic death cap etc.

joe_chicken

So Kev, have you got that Trainspotting DVD...

I hear there are trains in it?

Joking aside, the original thread should be reopened.