Scientology is now a criminal organisation in Belgium

Slow Motion · 05-09-2007 9:43am

DeVore wrote:

They are a menace and a danger. They arent the only ones but I'm glad Belgium has taken action.

DeV.

QFT !

So sad really ! What started out as an AH feel good story has turned into an us and them religious debate, with those on the moral highground firing indiscriminately into the long grass, I'm shocked :eek: :rolleyes:

Doctor DooM · 05-09-2007 9:51am

Slow Motion wrote:

QFT !

So sad really ! What started out as an AH feel good story has turned into an us and them religious debate, with those on the moral highground firing indiscriminately into the long grass, I'm shocked :eek: :rolleyes:

If you feel like that, post a quick "yore MA" to get it back on track. Simple as.

... I feel dirty...

Slow Motion · 05-09-2007 10:24am

SDooM wrote:

If you feel like that, post a quick "yore MA" to get it back on track. Simple as.

... I feel dirty...

I could but....meh !

Hrududu · 05-09-2007 10:41am

Most scientologists don't contribute much to their church

What? Every scientologist contributes to the church. They are pressured into paying money to take audits and courses that will make them clear. You know, to get the alien soul out of their body. Others are indentured to life to the church. It is not a faith. It is a cult created by a science fiction writer. It is called a church so that it will be exempt from paying tax. To call it a faith or a religion is very naive.

zuutroy · 05-09-2007 10:50am

The spaceship isn't going to pay for itself!...I guess it won't be stopping here now. :-(

Slow Motion · 05-09-2007 11:00am

zuutroy wrote:

The spaceship isn't going to pay for itself!...I guess it won't be stopping here now. :-(

Ohh...Look ! I found a kidney bean that looks just like the leader ! I'm going to put it on the shelf with all the rest of the kidney beans that look like the leader....:D

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 11:08am

indough wrote:

Who was bankrupted by scientology?

I suggest you do a little research on the topic before you continue to post. You could start with BBC Panorama's documentary on the subject, which can be watched on YouTube.

I'm beginning to think that this thread really doesn't belong in AH, but I can't think of anywhere else it might go...

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 11:09am

Slow Motion wrote:

Ohh...Look ! I found a kidney bean that looks just like the leader ! I'm going to put it on the shelf with all the rest of the kidney beans that look like the leader....:D

Homer, you know I always try to put the best face on everything, but there is no face on those damn beans!

cournioni · 05-09-2007 11:15am

*waits for a space ship to come and destroy Belgium...**

Slow Motion · 05-09-2007 11:21am

The Mad Hatter wrote:

Homer, you know I always try to put the best face on everything, but there is no face on those damn beans!

I've been rumbled, Doh !

Anyhoo ! If you want to know what the cryptoscientologists are really up to just watch that utter pap "Battlefield Earth". When they get their new alien bodies from the leader that's what they'll look like and that's how they intend to treat the rest of us !

Puny Humans.jpg

Talliesin · 05-09-2007 11:46am

You're getting your NRMs mixed up, the scientologists think the aliens are the bad guys.

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 12:08pm

Talliesin wrote:

You're getting your NRMs mixed up, the scientologists think the aliens are the bad guys.

Actually, they're currently denying that that's a part of the belief system at all.

ElliotM · 05-09-2007 12:19pm

I remember seeing one of L Ron Hubbard's sci fi novels in that book stall in George's St Arcade. Two words: Garth Marenghi.

There was a recent court case involving an Irish woman seeking damages against the CoS here. As usual the financial coercion was her main grievance, although it was on a smaller scale than some of the horrific stories you read about Scientology. Personally I'd be more pissed off about the time commitments they seem to expect than the money they effectively steal. She was very angry, anyway, but for some reason coverage didn't really pick up about it. Anyone remember this?

Hrududu · 05-09-2007 12:23pm

Actually, they're currently denying that that's a part of the belief system at all.

I think its because you have to reach OTVIII before you get that knowledge. They don't like anyone below that level to hear about this because it would blow their minds. By the time they have reached the higher levels they will have learned how to cope with the knowledge. And they will have spent so much money and revealed so many secrets there will be no way for them to back out. No wonder they are denying those beliefs are a part of it.

shoutman · 05-09-2007 12:30pm

If you are ever bored and up for a laugh, a quick trip into CoS on Middle Abbey St in Dublin is the way to go. They also offer free happiness tests just to tell you how utterly unhappy you really are. I went in with friends during my school days, one of them took a dvd. Absolutley brilliant viewing. I really dont know how these nutters can brainwash anyone.

yvan eht nioj

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 12:35pm

shoutman wrote:

If you are ever bored and up for a laugh, a quick trip into CoS on Middle Abbey St in Dublin is the way to go. They also offer free happiness tests just to tell you how utterly unhappy you really are. I went in with friends during my school days, one of them took a dvd. Absolutley brilliant viewing. I really dont know how these nutters can brainwash anyone.

yvan eht nioj

It starts with a 'personality test', not like the one you did. Basically you're hooked up to a primitive lie-detector and asked a bunch of probing personal questions. Following this, they have a whole bunch of information to blackmail you with.

shoutman · 05-09-2007 12:43pm

I reckon you'd have to be pretty stupid to tell them how you touched kids.

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 12:46pm

shoutman wrote:

I reckon you'd have to be pretty stupid to tell them how you touched kids.

That's why the lie-detector.

shoutman · 05-09-2007 12:51pm

Ah right I get ya....

lucernarian · 05-09-2007 1:28pm

It's good to see the Scientologists being brought to justice for their fradulent activities. It's nothing got to do with the merits of religion, it's simply a criminal matter.

Any other groups who use faith and spirituality to extort money out of followers should be similarly prosecuted. Thankfully the Belgians know better than the US in this regard.

lostexpectation · 05-09-2007 2:24pm

dublindude wrote:

I love how they point to freaks like Tom Cruise and John Travolta as proof their system is not for the unstable.

PS http://cache.defamer.com/assets/resources/2006/08/travolta-kiss.jpg

did you see on tg4 the interview he does where he says how his religion helped him get of drink abuse

now there an advertisement

thelordofcheese · 05-09-2007 2:49pm

ElliotM wrote:

I remember seeing one of L Ron Hubbard's sci fi novels in that book stall in George's St Arcade. Two words: Garth Marenghi.

You take that back! Garth Marenghi is a genius!

indough · 05-09-2007 3:14pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:

I suggest you do a little research on the topic before you continue to post. You could start with BBC Panorama's documentary on the subject, which can be watched on YouTube.

I'm beginning to think that this thread really doesn't belong in AH, but I can't think of anywhere else it might go...

The Catholic church has been raping the world for years, both figuratively and literally speaking, and yet they have and still do get away with it scott free. Where do you think all those lovely arches, pillars, altars and stained glass windows came from? They've been involved in european politics and received special taxes from the people over the course of their history, so it would be naive to think that noone has ever lost all their money due to the church. And as far as I know noone has ever been burnt at the stake by a group of scientologists either.

Remember that I never said that scientology was great or anything, I said that some of the main religions are just as bad. Perhaps it would do you well to read the other posts in the thread carefully before commenting on them and telling others not to post.

Tha Gopher · 05-09-2007 4:02pm

Karl Hungus wrote:

People who don't believe in religion? Is there even such a thing? Sure, there's plenty of people who don't believe the teachings of religion, but to not believe religion exists is just silly. :rolleyes:

But yes... People just do it to be anti-mainstream. Of course. :rolleyes:

Of course they do. Unless they were abused what reason do most young Irish people have to hate the church? I hate to sound like an elderly priest on Questions and Answers but it is trendy and nothing more. If you had over religious parents yes I can understand, but a vast majority of us didnt so whats yer beef with the church. In fact most people would be a few oul punt poorer if it wasnt for their christening and confirmation. I reiterate this on every single thread on the topic on AH- the church hasnt had any influence on Irish society since the late 70s. Cast your mind back, do you remember religion class in school? In national school you didnt have it more than once or twice a month probably. In secondary it was a dossing class, you learnt fuk all, ours were more about responsibility in regards to drink, drugs and sex.

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 4:15pm

indough wrote:

The Catholic church has been raping the world for years, both figuratively and literally speaking, and yet they have and still do get away with it scott free. Where do you think all those lovely arches, pillars, altars and stained glass windows came from? They've been involved in european politics and received special taxes from the people over the course of their history, so it would be naive to think that noone has ever lost all their money due to the church. And as far as I know noone has ever been burnt at the stake by a group of scientologists either.

Remember that I never said that scientology was great or anything, I said that some of the main religions are just as bad. Perhaps it would do you well to read the other posts in the thread carefully before commenting on them and telling others not to post.

Ok, first of all, look up literally. Because literally raping the world is pretty much harmless (although a little strange).

I never told you not to post, but I suggested that you do some research before asserting your opinion.

You asked who had been bankrupted by Scientology, I directed you to a video where you could find out. If you don't want to watch that one, then a quick Google will, I'm sure, provide you with plenty of alternatives.

Believe me when I tell you that I have no great love for the Catholic Church, but saying that it's as bad as Scientology demonstrates a rather large absence of knowledge.

I would like you to provide me with a shred of evidence of anyone losing all their money to the Catholic Church (never mind having it coerced out of them in the Scientological fashion) before you bandy about terms like naive.

And, no, no-one's ever been burned to the stake by Scientologists. Just left in a room to starve, or driven to suicide, or perscribed vitamins(!) for life-threatening ailments. For instance. And bear in mind that this wasn't even done with the (rather flimsy) excuse of 'doing it for their immortal soul'. It was done for money, and to protect the layers of secrecy surrounding the cult.

indough · 05-09-2007 4:30pm

Main Entry: lit·er·al·ly
Variant(s): /'li-t&-r&-lE, 'li-tr&-lE, 'li-t&r-lE/
Function: adverb
1 : in a literal sense or manner : ACTUALLY <took the remark literally> <was literally insane>

How does that differ from my use of it exactly? If you're going to be pedantic then at least be right about it.

Well I don't think that the catholic church has acted for the immortal soul either, imo it was just set up as the last vestige of the dying Roman Empire, as a way to retain some level of power in the world, but I suppose thats a pretty out there opinion. I don't have a lack of knowledge in the area at all, if you don't believe that the Catholic church is just as bad as scientology (at least in terms of how they've extorted the world) then perhaps you should make a visit to Vatican City.

I don't see the merits of judging a religion based solely on those who've left it/been kicked out, their opinion is bound to be a little biased.

I can't offer evidence of the catholic church bankrupting people, but I have no doubt that it did happen. It's a lot easier to get the information on the misdeeds of a religion started in the 20th century than one started almost 2000 years ago and you know that, unless you expect me to go through 1000 year old tax records whilst you browse for information on the internet.

The Mad Hatter · 05-09-2007 4:39pm

indough wrote:

Main Entry: lit·er·al·ly
Variant(s): /'li-t&-r&-lE, 'li-tr&-lE, 'li-t&r-lE/
Function: adverb
1 : in a literal sense or manner : ACTUALLY <took the remark literally> <was literally insane>

How does that differ from my use of it exactly? If you're going to be pedantic then at least be right about it.

Because literally, as you so intelligently quoted, means 'actually'. To literally rape the world involves sticking your c*ck in the ground. For whatever reason. As I said, pretty much harmless, although a little strange.

Edit: Incidentally, I don't consider this pedantic. Words mean what they mean, not what you'd like them to mean, and if we don't use the correct cabbages, how are we supposed to fusebox?

Well I don't think that the catholic church has acted for the immortal soul either, imo it was just set up as the last vestige of the dying Roman Empire, as a way to retain some level of power in the world, but I suppose thats a pretty out there opinion. I don't have a lack of knowledge in the area at all, if you don't believe that the Catholic church is just as bad as scientology (at least in terms of how they've extorted the world) then perhaps you should make a visit to Vatican City.

Again, proof? Evidence? Or just opinion?

I don't see the merits of judging a religion based solely on those who've left it/been kicked out, their opinion is bound to be a little biased.

I'm basing my opinion on the facts! The fact that they attribute the holocaust to psychiatrists! The fact that they drive their members to bankruptcy and, occasionally, suicide! The fact that anyone who sets out to damage them is Fair Gamed!

I can't offer evidence of the catholic church bankrupting people, but I have no doubt that it did happen. It's a lot easier to get the information on the misdeeds of a religion started in the 20th century than one started almost 2000 years ago and you know that, unless you expect me to go through 1000 year old tax records whilst you browse for information on the internet.

You have no doubt? This wouldn't be a faith-based argument you're making, would it?

05-09-2007 4:40pm

indough wrote:

The Catholic church has been raping the world for years, both figuratively and literally speaking

I do not think this word means what you think it means...

Scruff · 05-09-2007 4:49pm

zuutroy wrote:

The spaceship isn't going to pay for itself!.

indeed it wont! And with the Apollo moon missions costing $100+ billion (1970's dollars adjusted to todays) they'll need a hell of a lot more "collections"\"donations"\course fees to get past Mars to planet Ungobungo or where ever it is they are off to.

But maybe the money is just resting in their accounts Fr.Ted style.

humanji · 05-09-2007 4:50pm

Tha Gopher wrote:

Of course they do. Unless they were abused what reason do most young Irish people have to hate the church? I hate to sound like an elderly priest on Questions and Answers but it is trendy and nothing more. If you had over religious parents yes I can understand, but a vast majority of us didnt so whats yer beef with the church. In fact most people would be a few oul punt poorer if it wasnt for their christening and confirmation. I reiterate this on every single thread on the topic on AH- the church hasnt had any influence on Irish society since the late 70s. Cast your mind back, do you remember religion class in school? In national school you didnt have it more than once or twice a month probably. In secondary it was a dossing class, you learnt fuk all, ours were more about responsibility in regards to drink, drugs and sex.

I was in Primary school in the 80's and all we did was catholic stuff in religion. We also did catholic stuff in secondary school until I managed to petition the school board to learn about other things too. And the board of our secondary school had two nuns and a priest on it, and it was a public school.

The church doesn't have the strangle hold that it did years ago, but they still have influence, just nowhere near as much.

And although many people really will jsut hate the church because it's what the cool kids do, you're oversimplifying things by saying that you have to have really religious parents or be abused to have a right to hate the church. There are many reasons. The problem arises when people can't tell the difference between one person or those in charge, and the religion itself.

indough · 05-09-2007 4:57pm

I suppose I took it for granted that people would know I was exaggerating on the number of people when I said "the world", and not actually referring to the EARTH. And we're not being pedantic?

I don't really see how you can drive anyone to bankruptcy or suicide anyway, but I guess some people are more easily led than others.

I couldn't really be bothered to argue the point anymore if you're going to be too pigheaded to admit that scientology has done nowhere near the damage that catholicism has done. Frankly i'd rather be 'driven' to bankruptcy or perscribed vitamins when they weren't appropriate than be burned alive.

humbert · 05-09-2007 5:01pm

We're not talking about what's been done, that's a completely different argument. We're talking about what they are doing and the Belgians are talking legal action to prevent fraud being carried out in the name of religion.

indough · 05-09-2007 5:10pm

Yeah you're probably right, sorry for going off topic. It's not like the other church's have really given up on all their vices either though...as in they're doing things that they shouldn't be at the moment really.

Terry · 05-09-2007 5:13pm

indough, are you a scientologist or just a really big Tom Cruise fan?

humbert · 05-09-2007 5:16pm

That's true but just because they are not the only cult/religion/semantics conducting unethical practices isn't reason enough not to act against them imo.

indough · 05-09-2007 5:17pm

Neither, I just don't like the kind of hypocrisy i'm hearing, but **** it i'm not that bothered either, at this stage i'd rather just let people believe whatever

indough · 05-09-2007 5:19pm

humbert wrote:

That's true but just because they are not the only cult/religion/semantics conducting unethical practices isn't reason enough not to act against them imo.

absolutely true, but my point was that the same standards should be applied to all

Terry · 05-09-2007 5:57pm

indough wrote:

absolutely true, but my point was that the same standards should be applied to all

Present the evidence of criminal activities of other religions and I'm sure the Belgian authourities will be glad to follow it up.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 05-09-2007 5:58pm

The passion of the christ was fairly criminal

Capt'n Midnight · 07-09-2007 12:30am

humanji wrote:

And the board of our secondary school had two nuns and a priest on it, and it was a public school.

I think you may have the mistaken belief that our government provides schools ?

Communities provide schools, and then, usually later the government provides the money. The churches have a lot of money and can organise people so they tend to setup most schools.

Capt'n Midnight · 07-09-2007 12:49am

I could comment on their sacred writings but won't they are protected by copyrighted and CoS are ligitation happy.

Loved that episode of Millennium about Selfosophy.