We're racist, as we never knew they were coming?

Jackie laughlin

Let me repeat, the God teaching is irrelevant. I don't care if children are taught decency, respect, equality, tolerance etc and someone tells them it's the Christian or the Muslim way.

It's true that values are first and powerfully inculcated in the home. Some homes teach values that are unacceptable in our society and the schools TRY to redress this.

When a religious school inculcates or reinforces obscene values like hatred of homosexuals or any other group, or that women and men are not equal (Spare me the different-but-equal nonsense, please!) then they MUST be made to change or to close.

The reason we are short of school places is that property developers were allowed to build and sell houses without an educational infrastructure. It's called market freedom but when you're enslaved by the absence of a school, the "freedom" bit looks weird!

The Corinthian

djpbarry wrote:

I don't mean to offend, but it is you who is being very naive if you think that a little bit of religious study in school is going to miraculously turn little tearaways into moral, upstanding citizens!

Twelve plus years, 8-9 months per year, 7 hours per day in an institution that is run on the basis of a specific religious ethos is "a little bit of religious study"? Now I've heard it all.

So, I come back to my original point; if a child/teenager is behaving in an immoral fashion, it is their parents who are to blame and it is their parents who should face the consequences. Religion has nothing to do with it.

I certainly agree that the parents are ultimately responsible, but you are making some pretty silly assumptions about effect that the other areas of a child's life will have upon it.

Other than school, peer pressure is another influence. Children who fall into "bad company" will often adopt their behavior and values. The media and advertising is another influence - otherwise children would choose to dress like their parents.

Liam Byrne

The Corinthian wrote:

Twelve plus years, 8-9 months per year, 7 hours per day in an institution that is run on the basis of a specific religious ethos is "a little bit of religious study"? Now I've heard it all.

That's stretching it a bit, Corinthian......I don't ever remember having a maths class where they taught that "3 into 1 DOES actually go" and dragged out a statue of St Patrick with a shamrock.

Religion does NOT interfere with the majority of classes; in the same way that if you were ill/injured, it would NOT affect your treatment in a religious-run hospital.....yes, there are times that there would be clashes/conflicting views and beliefs (someone needing an abortion, someone whose religion opposes or favours certain procedures, etc) but saying 12yrs/9mths/7hrs per day has to be exaggerating by at least a factor of 10!

djpbarry

The Corinthian wrote:

Twelve plus years, 8-9 months per year, 7 hours per day in an institution that is run on the basis of a specific religious ethos is "a little bit of religious study"? Now I've heard it all.

Em, these kids are not being educated in monasteries...

The Corinthian wrote:

Children who fall into "bad company" will often adopt their behaviour and values. The media and advertising is another influence - otherwise children would choose to dress like their parents.

But that was not your point. You claimed that religious education in school is a powerful influence in a child's upbringing and I'm telling you that it is anything but that. It's not that long since I was in school and I remember what a farce religion class was. Now, I am not a religious person anyway and I strongly disagree with religious influence in state schools, but that certainly does not make me immoral.

The Corinthian

Liam Byrne wrote:

Religion does NOT interfere with the majority of classes; in the same way that if you were ill/injured, it would NOT affect your treatment in a religious-run hospital.....yes, there are times that there would be clashes/conflicting views and beliefs (someone needing an abortion, someone whose religion opposes or favours certain procedures, etc) but saying 12yrs/9mths/7hrs per day has to be exaggerating by at least a factor of 10!

Yet those are 12yrs/9mths/7hrs per day where a child is in an environment where certain values are promoted and other values are excluded.

I've seen subtle encouragement in and out of class in such schools encouraging boys to go for the priesthood. And where certain social values are promoted and alternatives are not only excluded, but frowned upon. Social imprinting in childhood is a very subtle and long drawn out thing that is not limited to parents.

Please bare in mind that I am not denying parental influence in the development of a child's value system. However, to deny that other influences, such as education, do not contribute to this is a fundamentally flawed assumption.

djpbarry wrote:

But that was not your point. You claimed that religious education in school is a powerful influence in a child's upbringing and I'm telling you that it is anything but that.

It's arguable whether a religious ethos in education has a powerful influence, but it certainly does have an influence. Your contention was the opposite; that it "has nothing to do with it", and this I do think is naive.

It's not that long since I was in school and I remember what a farce religion class was. Now, I am not a religious person anyway and I strongly disagree with religious influence in state schools, but that certainly does not make me immoral.

Firstly, you're mixing up immoral with amoral - they're two different things.

Secondly, you went to a religiously run school, so given that my contention is that it would tend to imprint certain values on you, your not being amoral supports rather than rejects my point.

djpbarry

The Corinthian wrote:

Please bare in mind that I am not denying parental influence in the development of a child's value system. However, to deny that other influences, such as education, do not contribute to this is a fundamentally flawed assumption.

I do not disagree that there are influences on a child outside the home.

The Corinthian wrote:

Firstly, you're mixing up immoral with amoral - they're two different things.

Please do not patronise me - that was a typo.

The Corinthian wrote:

Secondly, you went to a religiously run school, so given that my contention is that it would tend to imprint certain values on you, your not being amoral supports rather than rejects my point.

First of all, virtually every school in the country is under religious influence (predominantly catholic) - given the choice my parents would have sent me to a secular school. Had I attended a secular school, I very much doubt it would have resulted in me having a different set of morals today. Why? Because my parents saw to it that I was raised with a very strong sense of what was right and what was wrong, irrespective of what I was being told in school. In fact I remember on several occasions my mother correcting me on what I had been taught in school by my sometimes over-zealous teachers. Anyway, did it ever occur to you that maybe parents do not want their children educated in a religious environment?
Now, several people I attended school with have since served prison sentences (some are still incarcerated) and one was murdered in a gangland feud in Clondalkin last year. I guess the school's moral influence was not strong enough in their case, eh? :rolleyes:

Zambia

djpbarry wrote:

First of all, virtually every school in the country is under religious influence (predominantly catholic) - given the choice my parents would have sent me to a secular school. Had I attended a secular school, I very much doubt it would have resulted in me having a different set of morals today. Why? Because my parents saw to it that I was raised with a very strong sense of what was right and what was wrong, irrespective of what I was being told in school. In fact I remember on several occasions my mother correcting me on what I had been taught in school by my sometimes over-zealous teachers. Anyway, did it ever occur to you that maybe parents do not want their children educated in a religious environment?
Now, several people I attended school with have since served prison sentences (some are still incarcerated) and one was murdered in a gangland feud in Clondalkin last year. I guess the school's moral influence was not strong enough in their case, eh? :rolleyes:

The country is virtually Catholic so the tail trying to wag the dog is gonna take time.

I think highlighting the offences of a few individuals that went to catholic schools is ridiculous to prove your piont. No-one is saying the CC value system is foolproof no system is.

However I am not getting into this one to heavily as I do believe there should be a secular option within reach of people. That said I just can bring myself to criticise the CC for providing a school structure till this piont.

I am also maintaining on kids I just don't see a civics class working as well as the religous Model. Maybe thats a another thread opener , If anyone wants I can start one.

djpbarry

Zambia232 wrote:

I think highlighting the offences of a few individuals that went to catholic schools is ridiculous to prove your piont.

Of course it is – I was being sarcastic (note use of rolly eyes). The following is also a ridiculous statement:

The Corinthian wrote:

you went to a religiously run school, so given that my contention is that it would tend to imprint certain values on you, your not being amoral supports rather than rejects my point.

My morality proves nothing.

Zambia232 wrote:

I do believe there should be a secular option within reach of people.

My point exactly; this is where the government has failed miserably.

The Corinthian

djpbarry wrote:

I do not disagree that there are influences on a child outside the home.

Your assertion that "religion has nothing to do with it" implied otherwise.

Please do not patronise me - that was a typo.

LOL. So if it was a typo, you typed 'im' rather than an 'a' by accident? OK, it was a typo if you prefer to call it that.

As for the rest of your post, you're welcome to your opinion. I'm not all that bothered to make any further effort to change it.

djpbarry

The Corinthian wrote:

Your assertion that "religion has nothing to do with it" implied otherwise.

No it did not – you are taking my “assertion” out of context. You yourself said:

The Corinthian wrote:

Other than school, peer pressure is another influence. Children who fall into "bad company" will often adopt their behavior and values. The media and advertising is another influence - otherwise children would choose to dress like their parents.

I would say that peer pressure is a far greater influence on a child’s behaviour than a “religious ethos” at his / her school, as you have indicated here. I never denied that a child is influenced by people other than his / her parents. What I am saying is that a school’s religious orientation is highly unlikely to have much of an influence, if any, on a child’s morality, particularly if the child is from a secular background.

The Corinthian wrote:

I'm not suggesting that you should not remove religion from the school system, but that if you do, you will need to replace it with something. Otherwise you're simply relying upon good parenting. Bad mistake that.

The purpose of a school is to educate, not to discipline or to condition, although discipline is sometimes necessary in order to achieve said education. You are implying that the responsibility of raising a child lies with the state / society. I do not agree – this is the sole responsibility of the parent(s). If the child misbehaves, the parent faces the consequences, not the school or the child’s friends.

The Corinthian wrote:

LOL. So if it was a typo, you typed 'im' rather than an 'a' by accident? OK, it was a typo if you prefer to call it that.

Now you’re just being petty.

lostexpectation

racism is an economic tool, and FF/Ahern claims to be a expert economists

barrett1965

We don't have the infrastructure to cope.

Agreed.

djpbarry

We don't have the infrastructure to cope with what?

MySelf56

(Warning: Regular Texters look away now, contains mild Sarcasm)
We should be more mature by now but looks like despite million miles of clocking around the world thanks to Ryan Air/Cut throat price cut air lines and property boom we still not, lets cut the chase and PC other b***ls.

First I would like to start by saying I don’t like the argument of Irish went to America so we should allow migrants. That’s non-sense.

I don’t like media double standard attitude towards migrants. Example Evening Herald runs series of articles as headlines “Asylum Seekers that and this” to get few shackles from dreaded drivers in Dublin at the same time runs it runs a complete section of polish language. I am not against Polish language Evening Herald news paper what if there is section of Arabic (just for argument sake) by this time Kevin Meyer should have started BNP Party here. Having said that “yes” there are cases abuse of social welfare by migrants not just from Africa. Media thrives sensationalism nothing else. It’s the fact.

I wonder whether Kevin ever wrote article about ordinary joe/mary about his/her daily life cost such as 1200 yoyo cost of crèche for the toddler? I wonder why he always worried about Turban Garda, Mosque in his back garden and now this. Good old Kevin.

Yes Ireland culture, politics predominantly Catholic. It can’t be Secular over night it takes time, painfully slow process takes time. Thanks to the property boom there is also child birth boom probably we might heard recent reports biggest ever peak in decades. And the recent report also shows 35% percent houses bought recently are from Non-Eu nationals (funny to see all the paddy taking Aer Lingus/O’Leary air to an to buy properties [by decimating indigenous fishing villages] ). After two or three years they need school so here we are no new schools despite high in-flux of immigrants. Let us say 4 yrs back Mr Zavosky came here with his girl-friend/wife its obvious at some point they decided to have children now they have 3 yr old kid they living in some where in Dublin. What he has to do now?

Its time govt take charge of schools and accommodate these immigrant children into schools. Don’t go bonkers on removing crosses on schools and hospitals. Catholic schools provided education for generations in this Ireland. They are community based and autonomous have their own policy of recruitment based on religion. I hope they will consider changing their policy in coming years.

More over migrant community should be more pro-active and participate. They should have set up lobby group for more schools in their communities. Its not good enough saying now I can’t speak good English. Irish People genuinely had been through racism in England (only).

Your builder from Poland/Lithvanian, that girl in SPAR looks like model from Latvia, your food from Chinese take away (I still don’t get it why my take away bill has dual language Chinese and English I always thought Irish is primary language the tiny girl don’t have red hair), Your nurse either from India/Philippines, Your doctor from India (may be Pakistani), your kebab restaurant definitely not Co.Mayo cuisine. Your security guard for the office building from Nigeria.
Didn’t we have million post about how good looking polish girls boards it self?

So every part in our life they are playing vital role unfortunately either evening hearald or Kevin mayers are colour blind I guess or complete blind, who cares?.
May be few immigrants will stay few will go away after earning and saving yoyo’s. As Irish people travelled from Andes to Australia, as grown ups adults simple thing we should remember is (every body should be mother Teresa, just kidding) “Live and Let live, if you cant help other person so be it at least don’t screw up their tiny happiness”.

I personally don’t like to put idea of religion in child’s mind. When they grow up they might decide, just teach him Ethics. As my parents did to me. I don’t follow either my dad or my mom. I have my own. Religion, I think it should be private matter.


Its time reflect our self’s, what we have achieved so far. There is so many shopping centre across M50, inner Dublin. A new shopping centre in Arklow will be opening soon and another will be open Mullinger. IKEA on its on our way to Ballymun. Lets ask our self how many new schools opened in Arklow, How many new schools opened in Mulligar with respect to the new housing developments. How many new schools are planning in Gort (Dublin 88)? Is there new school built in Galway as Marvue shopping centre opened 3 years back? Or there any new schools as new Docks development in Dublin? There are more shopping centres and golf courses. So we have forget the basic necessities such as education and health long long long long time back.

I bet after two or more year’s health crisis will hit any doubt? I am sure these shopping centre will provide employment and produce wanna be “Britney Spears or Avril Lavigne”, will it produce Samuel Beckett, WB Yeats, James Joyce, Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw, and Seamus Heaney (some who don’t know them they are not band or singers) or Sarah Flannery (not some girl band member our best ever mathematical genius). As manufacturing shifted to China if you looking for a stable securing economy we have to built upon Knowledge. If there is no primary school education for kids we don’t have foundation block for a solid “Knowledge Economy”.

We don’t have community infrastructure such schools, community centres there will be serious social implications for that. If you don’t provide football, hurley or tennis rocket to hyperactive teen I will let you imagine what they will gonna in their after school hours. Instead of shedding light on community infrastructure such schools, play grounds and community/society centres there is no point mud sliding game on each other. Or worrying about who is racist who is liberal who is right wing, what paris Hilton doing?. Stick to the point “We don’t have schools, can we build them? Why there is no new school built in some what proportionately with property development”. Send these simple questions to party chief whips and your local TD’s. Its time for reflection as the new millennium generation we have to built a solid society not over exposed economy. May be that German Ambassador is right about our selfs.

If some body still blames our problems as a community/society for 70 euro flight from Morocco or immigrants. What can I say?

Jesus Wept

the_syco wrote:

Was reading Kevin Myers article in todays Indo (page 22), about how we're not to blame for not building schools for Africans that just came here. That the Catholics aren't to blame for prefering Catholics to anyone else, in their private schools.

Yes. I said it. Private schools. The Catholic schools are not public schools. They're privately run, funded, and the selection process is done by the Catholics.

But that's not PC, is it? Before a PC twat moans, I tell them: try to get a jew into the Islamic madrasahs. Whats wrong? Why can't they get in? And then answer me this: why should the Catholic church bend over backwards, but not them?

Also my first point. 20 or so Africans refugees get off the plane from (bloody magical non-existant direct-flight), and as they gave no advance notice that they were coming, it's our fault for not relaising that they'd come, thus it's our fault that we don't have enough schools for them?:rolleyes:

Bullsh|t. We barely have enough places for the Irish who booked their places 5 years ago, when their child was born, so how the f*ck are we to have places for people who just hopped off the plane, and want to skip the waiting list, cos they're "refugees"?

In the land of the Red Cow Round-the-Bend, they expect us to have stuff ready, for people who we don't know are coming?

Oh, and before someone says "the Irish went to America", the 400,000 that came here so far, would be like 45 million people going to the US. We don't have the infastructure to cope.

IMO, the catholic church should have nothing to do with schools.

There shouldn't be religion in schools.

I imagine my view will be unpopular.

djpbarry

Another article on this in today's Indo:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-class-war-breaks-out-1088030.html

lostexpectation

more international headlines
http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,2176451,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2522914.ece


http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/this-doesnt-suit-our-community-says-councillor-1087936.html


what exactly is May McKeown worried about what are her motivations, I hate people who more worried about reputation that solving problems.

The bitterness in the debate about immigration in Ireland was exposed during Educate Together's press conference yesterday. The chairwoman of the town's council claimed Balbriggan was being made a scapegoat in the controversy.

This doesn't suit our community, says councillor

THE chairperson of Balbriggan Town Council yesterday dramatically interrupted a press conference to object to the opening of a second multi-denominational, Educate Together school in the north county Dublin town.

Nevertheless, his comments were interrupted by the arrival of an irate May McKeon, chairman of the town council, who demanded to be given a list of the names and addresses of the new school children. Mrs McKeon said that Balbriggan was being turned into a scapegoat and that local feeling was running high against Educate Together.

I presume she didnt have any particular right to have the full details of these people and that principal did not give them to her

Cllr McKeown, who also a member of Fingal County Council, questioned whether the 80 pupils were living in the town and wanted to know when they had applied for school places.

why would people cheat themselves to place where there no places?

Cllr McKeown complained that Educate Together now had "two schools in Balbriggan -- it doesn't suit the community. We have to examine the needs of all the community. We need a balance," she said.

these schools fix the inbalance that was there not creates one, (although population of the school is currently imbalanced)

Our welfare offices in this town are overflowing. There are too many financial incentives to come to Balbriggan.”

what financial incentives are there to come to balbriggan as opposed to any other part of Ireland????

you keep hearing about about welfare tourist, but then you go look at the percentage of immigrants living on the dole and its in the 0.X% range...

she's been a public rep and councillor since 99 I think she should look back at her own voting record


I can't find anything much on Mckeown, just another quote from here saying only locals will get planning permission for one off houses in her rural constituency not city slickers...

so is her concern planning or doing errands for HER COMMUNITY

djpbarry

I don't know if anyone saw Myers on the Late, Late Show last night? I think his answer to every single question was "I don't know". He can't back up any of the wild statements that he makes.

axer

djpbarry wrote:

I don't know if anyone saw Myers on the Late, Late Show last night? I think his answer to every single question was "I don't know". He can't back up any of the wild statements that he makes.

Yes, I saw him on it I think people are misunderstanding what he is saying.

He is not saying that he has the answers - he is just saying that we *should* be talking about it and not be afraid of everyone playing the racist card. Of course it seems most people misunderstood him and thought he was being racist. Of course that idiot kenny wanted to make it into a racist thing and to bring in the audience to make it controversial.

JimiTime

djpbarry wrote:

I don't know if anyone saw Myers on the Late, Late Show last night? I think his answer to every single question was "I don't know". He can't back up any of the wild statements that he makes.

TBH, I think his foundational point is absolutely true. We should be able to talk about immigration rationally, without racism being brought into it. There is no doubt that there are scaremongerers out there, and there is no doubt there are thoughtless 'do-gooders' (i.e. peole who just hop on every PC bandwagon and shout racist at every opportunity). The only way to dispel the myths is to talk about it in a calm and rational manner. Too often it descends into over-emotional name calling. There is no doubt going to be differing opinions, but at least let the opinions be expressed. For while there is scaremongering from the anti-immigration side, there is also scaremongering from the pro-immigration side. There needs to be compromise, a scenario that will benefit Irelands immigrants and also benefit its paternal citizens.

djpbarry

axer wrote:

I think people are misunderstanding what he is saying.

I can understand what he is saying just fine. The problem with Myers is that he makes ridiculous statements (often sweeping generalisations), which, as was shown last night on the Late, Late Show, he cannot back up with facts. Some examples taken from recent articles of his:

Immigration is now not merely the dominant feature of Irish life, it is the greatest threat to the existence of the Irish nation as a coherent, and cohesive whole.

How is immigration “threatening” anyone?!?

No country has ever accepted, never mind assimilated, the volumes of foreigners now present in this state.

Absolute nonsense. Look at Sweden, USA, UK, France, etc.

everyone knows that the army of illegals, especially Africans and Chinese, is vast, and probably tops 200,000.

A ridiculous over-estimate. Where are they all hiding?!?

In the US, such immigration would translate into an inward population movement of 45 million. In the UK, the figure would be nine million. Needless to say, neither state would be so idiotic or feckless as allow such vast numbers to enter.

A stupid, meaningless statement if ever there was one. The US was built on immigration and as for the UK, 14.3% of the population is of non-British origin.

And of course, we haven't got the resources to cope with the consequences of such an influx.

And that is the crux of the matter; poor planning, not immigration.

African after African in Balbriggan complained there were no places for their children in the existing local schools. Not once was the question posed: what was the real reason for the Africans not having places in schools? Answer: they'd only just come here.

He conveniently omits the fact that the kids in question were, for the most part, born here, making them Irish citizens.

My mother lived most of her life in England, but never for a second thought of herself as English.

Ah the irony of it all. Myers is in an immigrant, as is his mother.

The media should be asking the big question, 'Why are we still admitting hundreds of thousands of immigrants?'

Because we’re not “still admitting hundreds of thousands of immigrants”.

Whether Irish people are "racist" is irrelevant.

Racism can never be excused under an circumstances.

true pride of place in the European imbecility stakes must surely go to Ireland, which now has some 60,000 Muslims officially living here, though the figure is probably more like 100,000, the vast majority having arrived since 9/11. Now, just how stupid is that?

First of all, we only have about 33,000 Muslims living in Ireland. Second of all, Myers is advocating discrimination in our immigration policy to refuse entry to Muslims. That in my eyes constitutes racism, or at the very least, religious discrimination.

axer

djpbarry wrote:

I can understand what he is saying just fine. The problem with Myers is that he makes ridiculous statements (often sweeping generalisations), which, as was shown last night on the Late, Late Show, he cannot back up with facts.

I agree that he does make some ridiculous statements alright. I didnt hear anything on the late late though that was ridiculous though.

djpbarry wrote:

How is immigration “threatening” anyone?!?

I think he is correct that immigration in its current form is a threat to the Irish nation - but that is our fault. Our planning and immigration control is crap to say the least.

djpbarry wrote:

Absolute nonsense. Look at Sweden, USA, UK, France, etc.

From what I know both the USA and the UK have many problems associated with bad immigration planning and integration.
I don't know about France and from what I know about Sweden, they are very good at planning and dealing with immigration.

djpbarry wrote:

A ridiculous over-estimate. Where are they all hiding?!?
A stupid, meaningless statement if ever there was one. The US was built on immigration and as for the UK, 14.3% of the population is of non-British origin.

Yes, they do seem well over estimated. Although there are definitely a lot more immigrants here than are officially reported.

djpbarry wrote:

And that is the crux of the matter; poor planning, not immigration.

Immigration in this poorly planned environment is the problem so one could argue that immigration is the problem because we are very bad at planning.

djpbarry wrote:

He conveniently omits the fact that the kids in question were, for the most part, born here, making them Irish citizens.

That doesn't mean that there hasn't been a recent (im talking about years) large influx of immigrants BUT we had plenty of time to prepare for it.

djpbarry wrote:

Ah the irony of it all. Myers is in an immigrant, as is his mother.

He has repeatedly stated that he doesn't have a problem with immigration as long as it is controlled i.e. we know how many are comming through, we can plan how many we want and we ensure that they can integrate (understand and speak english at least).

There definitely is a problem with discussing immigration without being considered a racist in this country. There are way too many on the PC brigade waiting for the next case of a child and mother being thrown out of the country legitimately to use it to make themselves feel better. If someone is illegally in the country or if they fail their refugee application then they should be thrown out of the country. I don't care what colour or race they are - there are no exceptions.

texas star

I agree with everything Axer said.I also though Myers was brilliant last nite on The late late show.I feel people are afriad in this country to open their mouths because they will be called a racist.:eek:

djpbarry

axer wrote:

I didnt hear anything on the late late though that was ridiculous though

The point I was making is that he was incapable of backing up anything he has said in the past. His answer to just about everything was “I don’t know”.

axer wrote:

I think he is correct that immigration in its current form is a threat to the Irish nation

How exactly? The only way the “current form” of immigration can be changed is if we secede from the EU. Also, the largest foreign-national group we have in this country (by some distance) is Britons – about 112,000 of them. Not a statistic that is often used.

axer wrote:

From what I know both the USA and the UK have many problems associated with bad immigration planning and integration

I was talking purely about numbers.

axer wrote:

Although there are definitely a lot more immigrants here than are officially reported

What are you basing that on? Have you counted them all yourself?

axer wrote:

Immigration in this poorly planned environment is the problem so one could argue that immigration is the problem because we are very bad at planning.

No. The government knew many years ago that they would have to plan for a major population increase. They were presented with economic forecasts detailing estimates of the number of jobs that would be created as a result of economic growth. They also knew that we did not have a large enough workforce in this country to fuel said growth and that large-scale immigration would be required.

axer wrote:

That doesn't mean that there hasn't been a recent (im talking about years) large influx of immigrants

That’s not the point. The point is these kids are Irish citizens and they are entitled to a proper education here.

axer wrote:

He has repeatedly stated that he doesn't have a problem with immigration as long as it is controlled

It is.

axer wrote:

There definitely is a problem with discussing immigration without being considered a racist in this country

I don’t think that is true at all. I think people like Myers are looking for problems where they do not exist. He is using immigrants as scapegoats when the real culprits are the government planners.

texas star wrote:

I also though Myers was brilliant last nite on The late late show

I’m sorry, but that statement requires some serious backing up . Give me one FACT that Myers used in his defence on the Late, Late Show.

moe_sizlak

myers made it clear through out that he does not have the answers , what he was asking for is the right to debate the issue surrounding immigration without having to look over ones shoulder for fear of being lableled a racist
those who do this contribute nothing to the native or new irish as some rather dubiously as myers has stated call them

the guy in the audience who was so anxious to pounce on myers was exposed as not having even listend to what myers was saying , he misquoted myers by accusing him of having said that 50% of dublins population were asian when myers was actually referring to leicster in the uk

i saw nothing wrong with anything kevin myers said on the show , i also think pat kenny was trying to **** stir a little durring the interview , i know his show is terminally dull but his digging here was quite obnoxious

djpbarry

moe_sizlak wrote:

myers made it clear through out that he does not have the answers , what he was asking for is the right to debate the issue surrounding immigration without having to look over ones shoulder for fear of being lableled a racist

I am not labelling Myers a racist (I would say he is a xenophobe though). But, it is impossible to have a debate with someone like Myers when they just pull facts and figures out of their arse (as shown above).

moe_sizlak wrote:

i saw nothing wrong with anything kevin myers said on the show

At one point during the interview, Myers made a reference to the (supposed) rape epidemic in Pakistan. I found this rather offensive as my wife's father is from Lahore and I have a lot of friends and family in Pakistan. Now, I very much doubt that Myers has ever been to Pakistan, so he has no business commenting on their society.

Hobbes

If they get government funding then they have to open the school to everyone.

We can totally rule out the equation of foriegn nationals from this. Even Irish born and decendant atheists have to deal with this issue.

moe_sizlak

djpbarry wrote:

I am not labelling Myers a racist (I would say he is a xenophobe though). But, it is impossible to have a debate with someone like Myers when they just pull facts and figures out of their arse (as shown above).
At one point during the interview, Myers made a reference to the (supposed) rape epidemic in Pakistan. I found this rather offensive as my wife's father is from Lahore and I have a lot of friends and family in Pakistan. Now, I very much doubt that Myers has ever been to Pakistan, so he has no business commenting on their society.

i never once heard myers utter the words rape epidemic
he used the words female circumcision alright

moe_sizlak

djpbarry wrote:

I am not labelling Myers a racist (I would say he is a xenophobe though). But, it is impossible to have a debate with someone like Myers when they just pull facts and figures out of their arse (as shown above).
At one point during the interview, Myers made a reference to the (supposed) rape epidemic in Pakistan. I found this rather offensive as my wife's father is from Lahore and I have a lot of friends and family in Pakistan. Now, I very much doubt that Myers has ever been to Pakistan, so he has no business commenting on their society.

i never once heard myers utter the words rape epidemic
he used the words female circumcision alright , oh and whats this about not being able to comment on a country just because you have never been there ,if that were the case , hardly anyone in this country could comment on whats happening in burma , nor could any irish person or group suggest that ireland boycott the bejing olympics due to chinas dismal respone to whats happening in burma and there own disregard for human rights in general
most irish people have not been to china

wes

moe_sizlak wrote:

i never once heard myers utter the words rape epidemic
he used the words female circumcision alright ,

Female circumcision happens a lot in North Africa. Its only place where its common practice.

Its doesn't happen in Pakistan to the best of my knowledge, its certainly not common practice. I assume you talking about Pakistan, as the post you replied to was talking about Pakistan. If Myers did say that, then what he is saying is wrong.