Can't get broadband? Irish Times Journo says you're wrong

damien

Karlin Lillington thinks that the issue with broadband in Ireland is not that people can't get it, it is that they don't want it. It seems in her estate everyone can get broadband but they don't want it so that's a reflection on the rest of the country.

I think she's way off and I encourage everyone to tell her in the comments of her blog of their horror stories when it comes to trying to get broadband.

smellslikeshoes

Looks to me like a journalist is trying to make herself important by getting a bit of publicity for herself by getting a rise out of people.

thefinalstage

Her example was crap...I mean come on! War driving the neighborhood and thinking that is an accurate representation? Pfft thats enough of her. Is she really suppose to be a reporter on tech? If she is how did she get in?

*Edit* She deleted my comment and didn't answer any of the points bar one.

Would asking about her journalistic skills or commenting about how the cost of broadband may not be an issue for her on her salary but could be for others be counted as a personal attack?

jimmycrackcorm

A journalist who goes wardriving with a mac of course!, and certainly not someone with Iraq based war driving reporting credentials.

I'd love to know what would she be writing had she been living a couple of houses up the road instead that had a pair-gain line and couldn't get broadband.

And of course the fatal flaw in in her arguement .... Everyone who has Broadband has a wireless router! I'll definitely know her whe she is out and about - she's wearing the Aran jumper.

dub45

thelastangryman wrote:

Her example was crap...I mean come on! War driving the neighborhood and thinking that is an accurate representation? Pfft thats enough of her. Is she really suppose to be a reporter on tech? If she is how did she get in?

*Edit* She deleted my comment and didn't answer any of the points bar one.

Would asking about her journalistic skills or commenting about how the cost of broadband may not be an issue for her on her salary but could be for others be counted as a personal attack?

That was the point that hit me strongest as well - judging the amount of people in a neighbourhood on the basis of wireless signals!:rolleyes: In fact lots of people who got broadband at the beginning of the roll out would not have have wireless routers at all.

watty

Most non-DSL still don't get WiFi as standard.
Also you will only pick up a minority of WiFi driving in the streets.

CptSternn

She obviously doesn't live in Co. Clare. Large chunks of Clare are still without broadband access. I'm not talking about the out back of beyond, I'm talking about large residential estates that most people would think already have broadband.

Until a couple of months ago, I didn't have broadband, until 3G came here. I'm quite upset about the quality of 3G, but thats current the only option for many, many people here.

None of the lines have been upgraded to accommodate normal DSL/broadband here. If you try dial-up on a normal phone line here you get speeds of 2kps, and thats as fast as it gets.

I really wish reporters would look outside of Dublin before they start praising the countries broadband capabilities.

watty

There are schools in Dublin using Satellite and many Dublin people buying Ripwave, 3G etc for Internet because they can't get "proper" Broadband.

Cabaal

As already mentioned, its clear that Karlin is trying to get a name just by posting some fluff that has no basis in fact or logic....comparing one housing estate to the whole of Ireland, fantastic work.

I suggest Karlin move to the country or an area/estate that uses a RSU (Remote Subscriber Unit) to supply telephone lines to house and then see how easy it is to get Broadband

Lets not forget, not all the country can get a stable working Mobile Broadband or wireless signal, also for those that get ADSL/Cable it often costs extra for a WiFi router so people often stick to ethernet because of this.

This person is supposed to be writing actual factual news for the Irish Times...god help us :rolleyes:

lucernarian

If someone sees fit to criticise the good work that IrelandOffline has done, which by dismissing criticisers as "whingers" she has, she should show them why their complaints can't be taken on board.

Going around with a mac around her Dublin address (Only exchanges in Dublin have had eircom DSL for half a decade) doesn't exactly fulfull that.

The demand for broadband is definetely there. 600,000 connections shows this. It's more important to serve the people who need broadband but can't get it than to get the remaining people on passed lines to sign up.

Why does she not recognise that?

Sponge Bob

She self admittedly lives in the "North Inner City" so I very much doubt she walked the streets with that mac.

Kur4mA

Her blog post is a piss take surely?

koneko

smellslikeshoes wrote:

Looks to me like a journalist is trying to make herself important by getting a bit of publicity for herself by getting a rise out of people.

Exactly what I thought when I read it, being controversial is always a great way of getting attention and hits.

It's easy to forget how many people can't get broadband when you can, we've had it for years now and didn't give it much thought after a while. We've been looking into moving, it's amazing that some places (not that far from Dublin!) are not covered by any service whatsoever, it's like going back in time.

NIBBS

Agreed, I've found over the years that a lot of what she has in that Times column is either ropey at best or just rehashed information that's already available elsewhere - maybe she's had enough of the job, I remember listening to some amazingly bad and inaccurate information that she was pushing on NewTalk on the Hook show about Vista - complete rubbish that came straight out of an MS Press Release.......what do people expect....

Cabaal wrote:

As already mentioned, its clear that Karlin is trying to get a name just by posting some fluff that has no basis in fact or logic....comparing one housing estate to the whole of Ireland, fantastic work.

I suggest Karlin move to the country or an area/estate that uses a RSU (Remote Subscriber Unit) to supply telephone lines to house and then see how easy it is to get Broadband

Lets not forget, not all the country can get a stable working Mobile Broadband or wireless signal, also for those that get ADSL/Cable it often costs extra for a WiFi router so people often stick to ethernet because of this.

This person is supposed to be writing actual factual news for the Irish Times...god help us :rolleyes:

singularity

I'll play the devils advocate here. Haven't read the article now (so sue me), but I'd say she's not that far off. But the problem isn't just the 'customers'.

Businesses in Ireland still haven't quite grasped the importance of internet. As examples, look at the websites for pcworld and currys. The latter one has been like that for years. I'm sure there are others.

Internet banking (only experience with Ulsterbank) is a bit of a joke as well: you can't pay just any bill, only with preregistered companies.

This just won't do in this day and age. This is quite amazing considering the cost savings banks could do with getting their customers to do their business on the web instead of all those branches.

Another thing is books. Maybe I'm wrong here, but why isn't any of the Irish book stores trying to compete with amazon? Surely it would be an advantage to be able to offer a lower shipping cost?

Cabaal

Its also worth noting that the fact she has admitted war driving and connecting to other people's wifi connections without permission could be classed as criminal activity, nice that she admits it

Frankly I couldn't care less if she does or not, but its a stupid thing to admit to imho.

In relation to Internet usage in Ireland, well the Irish Times is one to talk, not only have the f*cked them selfs over by not taking advantage of the users using their website to create a decent community but they've pushed people away by providing a overpriced subscription model....smart!

Just looking at there website its nice to see the don't do a decent job updating there website as on the front page they have Pavarotti in very serious condition, don't they realize he's died already...hours ago?
Nice to know they take the Internet seriously as a proper news medium

watty

Eason has almost a monopoly on magasine & book imports.

She may have only been looking at SSIDs that appear. Not actually trying to connect. Which means she either is being "flexible" with the meaning or actually doesn't know what "real" Wardriving is.

@singularity..
Yes there are things you could do to stimulate demand and the net is not as well used by banks, Government etc as it could be. But if you stimulated demand all the install times will go through the roof. If there was universal availability you would get demand rising due to synergy of a critical mass of users and businesses.

thefinalstage

Hehe a chance to either convict her of a crime or make her look like a fool .

singularity

watty wrote:

But if you stimulated demand all the install times will go through the roof. If there was universal availability you would get demand rising due to synergy of a critical mass of users and businesses.

You might be right, and I know too little about how much is actually spent on this by the respective BB providers. But given your argument it sounds as if you assume a fixed amount on resources dealing with installations. Which shouldn't be the case if the demand was there and healthy competition applies.

watty

The demand is definately there. I've seen companies having to add extra rooms to handle the growth in sales calls.

CuLT

watty wrote:

She may have only been looking at SSIDs that appear. Not actually trying to connect. Which means she either is being "flexible" with the meaning or actually doesn't know what "real" Wardriving is.

I think it's highly probable that she's got the usual yuppie take on tech; limited understanding of the actual technology, but knows all the buzzwords and uses them liberally at every opportunity.

Cabaal

CuLT wrote:

I think it's highly probable that she's got the usual yuppie take on tech; limited understanding of the actual technology, but knows all the buzzwords and uses them liberally at every opportunity.

I won't comment further on this....

rahtkennades

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we appear to be experiencing some mob rule-related turbulence at present. We hope to resume normal informed debate as soon as possible.":rolleyes:

Cmon people, there's no point in getting the knives out here. I agree that Karlin Lillington's analysis of the situation is at best simplified, and more likely simply incorrect, but I think some of the commentry here and on the other thread discussing this topic (on another forum) has been a bit nasty on some occasions.

I just don't think that it's adding anything to the debate, that's all.

lucernarian

I'm going to point out that this debate is based on a journalist making scurrilous claims.

The facts of the matter seem to be weighing highly against her, but she is using the personal attacks* as a defence for what is basically shoddy journalism. I have no problem admitting I'm not a journalist but implicitly agreeing with Eamonn Ryan's lies is unwelcome and not in the public interest.

After seeing her latest replies on her blog, I'm getting irritated by the sanctimonious attitude. She is still standing by the 90% coverage. But would sooner talk about her work with Digital Rights Ireland, and a clutch of references to broadband work.


*which I can count on one hand and seem to mainly involve her being called an apologist.

Nevyn

CuLT wrote:

I think it's highly probable that she's got the usual yuppie take on tech; limited understanding of the actual technology, but knows all the buzzwords and uses them liberally at every opportunity.

http://indigo.ie/~karlin/kjbio.htm

Karlin Lillington
Born in Canada, brought to Silicon Valley as a prototype (loud and squalling with very few useful features) for formative years, back when "real estate" referred to fields of apricot and cherry trees rather than silicon wafers. Old enough to have played hangman with a Rand Corp. mainframe which occupied a room of its own (I lost). Science studies mutated into a literature degree, and eventually a PhD in Anglo-Irish Literature from Trinity College Dublin. Like my father, I'm now Dr Lillington, but he does lungs and (bad) jokes. Well, he does a lot more than that, as you can see from what other people say about him. My mom is the one who (as she says) "made me strong" -- just like her, and her mom, and her mom's mom [grin].

Since the 1980s, I've studied and worked in either London or (mostly) Dublin. I write weekly for the Irish Times; and variously at times for The Guardian's Thursday technology section OnLine, Wired News, the San Jose Mercury-News, The Sunday Times, New Scientist, Red Herring, eCompany/Business 2.0, Industry Standard, Salon.com, Edge, New Media Age, Web Ireland, Decision, ZDNet's GameSpot, the Irish Sunday Business Post, the Irish Independent. Radio appearances include the BBC and RTE; television, RTE and TV3. You can find links to my writing here, if you're interested. Of course some of these publications are now defunct or have merged, but it wasn't my fault. Really!

I have no time for her at all and find that her level of tech and internet knowledge to be appalling.

Yes while she may have contacts and gets the press releases I get the same information in my rss feeds.

He does a spot on the right hook and at first I had tought she was dumbing things down for Georgre and those of his generation but she makes too many
incorrect assumptions and her lack of basic knowledge leaves me stunned quiet frankly.

Last week she said on air in response to a text that she didn't' know if there was such a thing as a cd scratch repair kit.

Clearly someone needs to explain to her she has to do her own research and not go by flashy press releases.

I have very little time or tolerance for her and her 'contribution' to that debate about broadband on newstalk was farcical.

Cabaal

Thaedydal wrote:

Last week she said on air in response to a text that she didn't' know if there was such a thing as a cd scratch repair kit.

Your kidding right?
Thats pretty basic knowledge, hell my dad knows they exist and he's in his 70's

Nevyn

No I am not kidding.

The slot is podcasted:
http://www.newstalk.ie/podcasting.html
http://chipswiththat.com/?p=25

lucernarian

I don't know Karlin or her work, but I've done some digging. There's the auld press releases allright. But I can't see much comment or opinion on these matters. Did she author many analyses or comment on broadband in Ireland?

Zaphod

Irish 'fraudband' condemned by eBay's McElligott
Karlin Lillington

Slow connection speeds and lagging availability of broadband mean that the Government will have difficulty in achieving stated goals such as supporting small businesses, encouraging the use of communications technologies and promoting regional development, according to one of the world's most successful internet companies.

"Developing world" levels of broadband provision currently on offer in Ireland constituted "fraudband", said John McElligott, managing director of eBay Ireland.

IT, Aug 28, 2007

I suppose McElligott is just another whinger? Although he's not the only one who likes a good whinge...

Eircom stranglehold makes broadband switching difficult
Karlin Lillington

Net Results: I recently tried to get a second phone line run into my house to try out some services from a broadband service provider other than Eircom.

I have had Eircom broadband for years, ever since it enabled my exchange. I have been quite happy with the service it has provided, though less happy with the prices charged in a market that for a long time, had no real competition. I didn't really want to give up my Eircom service, hence my application for a second line.

Last week, the other broadband company rang to tell me that Eircom had said it couldn't give me a second line, due to demand, although I'll admit I didn't really understand the reason. The only option was for me to transfer my line to the rival company, but it told me that it didn't advise me to make the transfer. Why ever not, especially when it would then have me as a customer? I am not much used to having companies tell me they don't want my custom.

Because, it told me, it would take at least 30 to 60 days to get a new line and quite possibly longer, and I would be totally without a broadband connection during that time.

I listened in disbelief. I had thought there was now plenty of competition in the market for broadband but, because of the way in which Eircom continues to be allowed to manage landlines and broadband provision, I would have to cancel my broadband service with Eircom and the other provider would be required to apply to provide broadband on the same line, which can take some considerable time.

In effect, what this means is that there is no competition at all in the market for someone like me, who already has broadband, unless I want to go wireless or tolerate an extraordinarily long and uncertain period of time with only a dial-up internet connection.

But I didn't want to go wireless, though that's a perfectly fine option; I wanted to try a bundled package of services from one particular supplier that involved getting broadband as well. As I work partly from home and need the internet constantly as a research and communication tool, I couldn't bear the thought of listening to those screechy modem electronic "handshakes" and tolerating the drip-drip-drip download speeds again.

To be honest, I wasn't even sure I wanted to change broadband providers if I couldn't get the second line - but I sure was taken aback to find out that, for all intents and purposes, I had no choice - that despite all the talk about competition in the broadband market coming from both the Government and Eircom.

Why is this area not regulated to require a smooth handover for broadband if requested by the consumer? Such stipulations are in place in other countries and also exist for the mobile operators, who cannot footdrag when a customer wishes to transfer to a rival network and move their existing number.

Imagine if you were forced to go without your mobile service for a couple of months while the rival operator waited to hook your service back up for you, that the excuse was that you still had other alternatives in the interim because you could just use your landline and payphones while you waited for the transfer to happen.

Consumers and businesses would be rightly outraged. There would be speeches from the floor of the Dáil.

The fact that this isn't happening with this anomaly in broadband provision is yet another example of how bizarrely behind we are in thinking about broadband and its central importance in the way many people do business or lead their daily lives.

A broadband connection is not a luxury just as a mobile phone is not a luxury. Both are basic to a citizenry that lives in a 21st-century economy in a country that is supposed to be a technology leader.

We know from bad example how stunted the development of our own mobile marketplace was because of some initial piecemeal regulation that eliminated competition rather than encouraging it, miring our mobile market in lawsuits.

It has taken a decade for a better managed and regulated mobile market to emerge here, still with a low level of competition and some of the highest mobile charges in Europe that many feel are a direct result of those early problems.

We also know how a series of events - mainly, the sale and sale again of Eircom but also the tech industry crash, mergers among other landline operators and poor understanding of the significance of broadband among politicians, coupled with weak regulation - has meant we come in at the very bottom of international league tables with broadband penetration, a shameful turn of events for a supposed tech tiger economy.

How can we not see the importance of such a basic stimulus to the market as enabling proper competition among broadband providers? Why are we penalising the customer who made an early decision to get broadband by effectively eliminating a key option to transfer to another broadband supplier? A healthy market is not just about providing choice to new customers but making sure the continuous availability of choice to all customers motivates all suppliers to provide competitive services at competitive prices.

To accomplish this, the Government needs to give the regulator ComReg the teeth to change how landlines are controlled, open the broadband market properly and in a meaningful way for all customers and force suppliers to comply.

IT, Dec 8 2006

Freddie59

I'm playing Devil's advocate her, so please bear with me. I have often espoused the view held by that reporter in several conversations regarding broadband availability. What I do agree with her on is the fact that Broadband is available in many areas, but there is a low take-up.

This could be for the following reasons:

1. While some people are versed with PCs and the technology surrounding them, a huge swathe of the population are not. Indeed there are many who do not even know what Broadband IS.

This does not apply solely to Broadband, but Digital TV can also be held up as an example. Would I be right in saying that, out of 1.4 Million or so homes, only 700,000 approximately subscribe to some form of Digital TV. That means 50% of people are not bothered subscribing - either through pure apathy or are just not bothered. You cannot 'beat people with a stick' to force them to subscribe.

2. How many homes actually have a PC in the Republic, and out of them how many actually use their PC on a regular basis? If they're not bothered using the PC, why would they want Broadband?

In the article in question a respondent (John McCormack) points out that the wrong age group is used as a demographic for penetration rates. Indeed, it would appear that the largest amount of broadband subs are families - with this being driven by young teenagers with an insatiable appetite for the new technology.

On the street where I live 50% of homes in my street have some form of broadband - but each home has a high teenage population.

Finally, and I'm just throwing this out as a question, is Broadband the necessity that it is portrayed as for business? As I've said, I'm merely throwing a few more points into the debate - I'm not saying the above is necessarily right.

lucernarian

Many thanks for that revealing article. Some hypocrisy on her part perhaps? No, there's much more.

What's desperately annoying about this is that she only wrote about the problems with number portability and GLUMP and LLU when she had to experience the problems herself. There's nothing about the actual reasons for this. Those problems were inherent in the system since the ODTR set it up in 2001. Heck, she doesn't even mention the word LLU!!

And of course there's the hypocrisy of spending inches on "the injustice of it all" while offering such enlightening suggestions as giving the regulator teeth to change how landlines are controlled?? How is this possible if ComReg never even used the powers it had originally?? How can LLU provide substantially better speeds when the Local Loop part of it cannot handle the speeds??