What are Jeff Stelling and the boys going to talk about?

mike65

Tis going to be a quiet Soccer saturday on Oct 6th.

A new top-flight record will be set on Saturday 6 October when just one Premier League match kicks off at the traditional 1500 BST time.

Only Aston Villa's home game against West Ham starts at 1500 BST, with one game starting at 1245 BST on Saturday and eight games taking place on Sunday.

Mike.

LostinBlanch

I'd take a sickie that day if I was him!

5starpool

Bloody Uefa cup. Day in the spotligt for the championship I guess.

thebaz

thats crazy , stupid greediness ! i didn't mind the odd super sunday match , and the odd monday night game -- but now those 5 pm kicks offs , and what not will actually detract from the game with tv saturation -- 8 games should be kicking of at 3 pm on sats -- even American footbal, one of the most commercial games there is , mainly kick off at there regular sunday times .... madness

Savman

Nice to see me Villa flying the flag

gimmick

As far as I know, and I could be wrong here, but they panel could talk about one of the other divisions in England, like the championship? Just a thought.

Seriously though, its a farce. TV is eating everything up. the 4pm game on Sunday is Portsmouth V Fulham. Surely Sky could have arranged for a UEFA competitor for that time slot, leaving that game open for 3pm Saturday?

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

the championship

The what?

What are you talking about? Nothing exists apart from the Premierleague.

The Rooster

Whats the big deal with games kicking off or not kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday? Big swing either way.

I think its great that there's so many games on TV. I'll watch less than half of them but its nice to have the option. Its especially good for the supporters of the top teams where now most games are on live. 19 of Liverpool's first 21 games in all competitions are live. Fantastic!

EDIT: I see Sky have picked Reading v Liverpool to show live in the Carling Cup. So make it 20/21. Super fantastic!!

leninbenjamin

could this be an indication that it could go the way of Italy some day? **** attendences and atmospheres and too much TV influence etc.? i'm thinking it might be a possibility at the rate they are selling out.

_blank_

leninbenjamin wrote:

could this be an indication that it could go the way of Italy some day? **** attendences and atmospheres and too much TV influence etc.? i'm thinking it might be a possibility at the rate they are selling out.

It's already happening

Not that it will affect the barstoon brigade anyway, they don't care what time 'their' team is on TV at, they'll still loyally go to the pub.

aidan24326

There is actually too many games on tv now. Total saturation coverage. One time it was almost a novelty to have live games, you'd look forward to seeing a game on tv now you can't turn on the telly but there's a game on. Portsmouth v Fulham is hardly mouth watering stuff. On Saturdays now it's wall to wall coverage from 12 noon til about 10 that night. They shouldn't have brought in the 5:15 games. It's all pure greed now, and sky hype the bejaysus out of every game. Even if it was Hull City v Colchester they'd be building it up into the game of the year.

Pighead

The Sky boys could do a lot worse than head over to station Road on Saturday to catch the Kildare V Dundalk game.

Okay there probably won't be too much skill or goals on offer but who really cares about all that nonsense.

BaZmO*

DesF wrote:

The what?

What are you talking about? Nothing exists apart from the Premierleague.

Do you have to post in every thread giving out about the Premiership? It's getting seriously old at this stage.

DSB

Does it really affect you that much?

BaZmO*

DSB wrote:

Does it really affect you that much?

Of course it doesn't, just like people standing at the end of escalators, but it does annoy me.

Attractive Nun

Personally, I'm pretty happy about having more games on TV.

gimmick

The Rooster wrote:

Whats the big deal with games kicking off or not kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday? Big swing either way.

I think its great that there's so many games on TV.

The big deal is for the fans who actually go to games on a Saturday afternoon, the traditional fan who saw his team play every home game at least before the advent of saturation TV coverage.

The big deal is that the KO times are all over the place to suit Sky and Setanta subscribers, and not to suit the fans in the ground.

The big deal is that it is a damn sight easier for a guy to get to a ground, have a few beers before and after for a 3pm ko, than it is to get to wherever for 12.30 on a Sunday.

It doesnt matter what the ordinary attending fan thinks anyway, the money is in TV, the clubs know that as do the companies, so screw the fans.

And may I say that the people who think its great, that is a typical armchair/barstool supporter attitude.

DSB

BaZmO* wrote:

Of course it doesn't, just like people standing at the end of escalators, but it does annoy me.

People standing at the end of escalators are rarely making a valid point.

_blank_

gimmick wrote:

The big deal is for the fans who actually go to games on a Saturday afternoon, the traditional fan who saw his team play every home game at least before the advent of saturation TV coverage.

The big deal is that the KO times are all over the place to suit Sky and Setanta subscribers, and not to suit the fans in the ground.

The big deal is that it is a damn sight easier for a guy to get to a ground, have a few beers before and after for a 3pm ko, than it is to get to wherever for 12.30 on a Sunday.

It doesnt matter what the ordinary attending fan thinks anyway, the money is in TV, the clubs know that as do the companies, so screw the fans.

And may I say that the people who think its great, that is a typical armchair/barstool supporter attitude.

Funny thing about this thread is that it was more about poor Jeff and his buddies having nothing to talk about, rather than the real debate which you have brought up.

Lads, it's highly annoying to have fixtures chopped and changed just for TV. For people who go to the games that is. You get the fixture list at the start of a season and plan your weekends. The a week or two before the gmes, the powers that be decide to change it all? Ridiculous carry on, and shows lack of respect for the people who keep the game going.

As a great man once said. Football is nothing without it's supporters.

wardie

The problem with that day though is not because of TV. 4 of the games are moved as the clubs are playing the UEFA cup on the Thursday.

Those games wont be on the telly.

Will happen most weeks the UEFA cup is on.

Aquos76

The Rooster wrote:

EDIT: I see Sky have picked Reading v Liverpool to show live in the Carling Cup. So make it 20/21. Super fantastic!!

Is the Spurs game the only one not shown? When is the postponed game from the start of the season, due to be played?

aidan24326

Some of the fans are getting p1ssed off with it though, I think it was Boro had a whole series of Sunday games a couple of years ago and the fans weren't happy about it. I suppose the saturday 3:00 kickoff is kind of a tradition of the game, and season ticket holders get peed off when the fixtures are chopped and changed and it's difficult to plan ahead.

And why must United-Liverpool games always be on at some sh1tty time like 11.30 on a saturday morning? Why can't it be a 4:00 Sunday kickoff now and again? I know it will never be played at 3 on saturday due to the ban on live games, but why always 11.30 in the bloody morning? Is it just to keep the fans out of the pub before the game?

~Rebel~

yeah i think theres certain "high risk" games that always get played in the morning so theres not a bunch of pissed fans heading into an already heated atmosphere. Having said that if the 2 ever meet in the champions league it will be in the evening so how one is allowed and not the other i dont quite get. Different organisations decide nothing will happen?

ciaran76

aidan24326 wrote:

And why must United-Liverpool games always be on at some sh1tty time like 11.30 on a saturday morning? Why can't it be a 4:00 Sunday kickoff now and again? I know it will never be played at 3 on saturday due to the ban on live games, but why always 11.30 in the bloody morning? Is it just to keep the fans out of the pub before the game?

Yes to stop trouble basically. Its usually under the advise of the local police too. I remember going to an Everton v Liverpool game at 8pm on Good Friday.

That was not a pretty sight as a high % of fans were drinking quite early as its a bank holiday over there. Anyway saw a good few fights on the way up and in the ground and afterwards. I reckon it was one of the last night time derbies.

Noelie

What a real pin is when they change a a kick off to put it on TV, I was goign to an Villa-Arsenal game 2 yeards ago and they changed it from a Sat to a Sun to show it on TV. I enddedup having to get a new return flight.

event

thebaz wrote:

thats crazy , stupid greediness ! i didn't mind the odd super sunday match , and the odd monday night game -- but now those 5 pm kicks offs , and what not will actually detract from the game with tv saturation -- 8 games should be kicking of at 3 pm on sats -- even American footbal, one of the most commercial games there is , mainly kick off at there regular sunday times .... madness

well no, its cos a lot of teams are playing on thursday, so they are giving them the extra day to recover

BaZmO*

Quick question. Do teams make more from gates or TV?

LuckyLloyd

DesF wrote:

Funny thing about this thread is that it was more about poor Jeff and his buddies having nothing to talk about, rather than the real debate which you have brought up.

Lads, it's highly annoying to have fixtures chopped and changed just for TV. For people who go to the games that is. You get the fixture list at the start of a season and plan your weekends. The a week or two before the gmes, the powers that be decide to change it all? Ridiculous carry on, and shows lack of respect for the people who keep the game going.

As a great man once said. Football is nothing without it's supporters.

Yeah, whatever. The reality is that football's current level of lavishness at the higher level cannot be maintaned with just the fans. In the short to medium term that is. TV has become more important to the biggest clubs as it is that medium which is putting in the majority of the money each year.

There seems to be an invisible threshold which is crossed once clubs get past a certain level. It divides clubs between those who depend on the direct input of fans in terms of gate receipts etc for their viabillity and those monsters who need to keep TV and the sponsors happy first to keep things going and pushing forward. Once that level is reached the fans are no longer considered as priority because:

A) They no longer account for the majority of the revenue;
There is such a massive base of them that you can poke and prod them a fair bit without much in the way of adverse consequences for your bottom line. This is because the vast majority of your fanbase becomes passive and purely there because you win and your brand is cool. That percentage becomes more pronounced the more popular you become.



Now, I know that the likes of you, Gimmick and the other Eircom leaguers realise this. You are too smart not too. And I also know that, as decent and loyal fans of Eircom league clubs you are deep within the grime of the games lower levels - well beneath the threshold where fan input starts becoming less important.

As such, I can understand your resentment for the game as a whole and why you carry this poor unfortunate martyr like attitude into the majority of your posts on this forum. Poor you guys, the real fans get nothing, etc.

Your argument may be won in the longterm when the game eventually comes crashing down because it has extended it's supply line and ground it's basic driving force (passion) into the dust. Problem is that the longterm may be longer than your time on the earth. You fight the good fight all the time on this forum - but you are in the minority in terms of the total number of posters who involve themselves around here. And that is why the game is the way it is - because the majority don't care as much as you do. As much as that sucks, tiresome renditions of the same arguments backed up by the same points won't change much.

_blank_

I applaud you LuckyLloyd, that's an excellent post.

BaZmO*

Great post LuckyLloyd.

Iago

BaZmO* wrote:

Quick question. Do teams make more from gates or TV?

In 2005 42% (£66.2m) of Manchester Uniteds revenue came from gate receipts and matchday sales (programmes etc.) I haven't seen the 2006 figures so don't know whether that's changed dramatically or not.

Media represented 31% and commerical sales represented 27%

Mr Alan

great post mr Llyod

leninbenjamin

Agree'd, good post Lloyd,

but...

What we're seeing is a huge surge in spending from all the clubs due to the massive TV deals that are now over shadowing the attendances. However, a lot of smaller to medium clubs are banking on constant/increased attendances (eg. Everton/Portsmouth building new stadiums) in the medium/long term future. It's the smaller clubs that would be the first to sustain any losses in attendance should the overall figure go down, as they havn't the large international fan bases like Utd or Pool (with the higher levels of foreign fan tourism) to carry them over should the local fans become fed up. And as said there is already an indication fan attendances overall are falling.
one day it could hit these lesser established clubs that they've over budgeted, and can hardly afford the day to day spending, and i think a lot of clubs could potentially be hit by this in the medium term futures. attendance is still a sizable % of revenue, and might mean all the difference between whether your profitable or not.

Much more of a worry for me is the huge investment by foreign billionaires. we hear from your Thaksins, Lerners, Quinnys and so on how they want their clubs to compete for Europe, become big etc. but that's an awful lot of clubs spending huge money on a very small reward pool. one of these days i think some of these will just wake up and realise it's not worth it/attainable, and that the club will hardly ever become profitable in this manner and suddenly the investment will fall etc. and we'll see a lot fall back into semi-obscurity, survival mode. As big as the TV deals are, it seems any club who wants to get into the top half of the table these days have to have a billionaire backer. that's just unsustainable and non sensical and wont last for very long imo. it just doesn't seem a stable business plan...

i can see a few more Leeds in the medium term future...

Edit: rejigged 1st paragraph, i should learn to use preview more often.

Mr Alan

can we please have this thread locked? the posts are far too well thought and eloquently put!

The Rooster

gimmick wrote:

The big deal is for the fans who actually go to games on a Saturday afternoon, the traditional fan who saw his team play every home game at least before the advent of saturation TV coverage.

The big deal is that the KO times are all over the place to suit Sky and Setanta subscribers, and not to suit the fans in the ground.

The big deal is that it is a damn sight easier for a guy to get to a ground, have a few beers before and after for a 3pm ko, than it is to get to wherever for 12.30 on a Sunday.

It doesnt matter what the ordinary attending fan thinks anyway, the money is in TV, the clubs know that as do the companies, so screw the fans.

And may I say that the people who think its great, that is a typical armchair/barstool supporter attitude.

Agreed. I couldnt give a crap what the ordinary English supporter thinks. So long as there are plenty of Liverpool games on TV and Anfield is almost always full, I'm happy.

Rikand

I have no problem with Blackburn not playing on Saturday, for as long as we remain in the UEFA cup

The Rooster

Aquos76 wrote:

Is the Spurs game the only one not shown? When is the postponed game from the start of the season, due to be played?

Correct re the Liverpool v Spurs game.

No date set yet for the West Ham game that was postponed.

Bluetonic

The Guardians take on it.

Premier League greed is killing the people's game

The decline of the traditional 3pm Saturday kick-off is symptomatic of how TV dictates fixtures, writes Steven Powell.
The Guardian
September 7, 2007 12:05 AM

We all know why in four weeks' time only one Premier League game will kick off on Saturday at 3.00pm. Greed. The Premier League, famously dubbed by one veteran football writer the "Greed Is Good League", is interested in only one thing when it comes to broadcasting rights. Money. The interests of match-going fans come a long way behind.

The Premier League will protest that some games on the weekend of October 6-7 have been moved because of involvement of English teams in the Uefa Cup. True, but the reason those clubs' European matches have been moved from Wednesday night to Thursday night, necessitating their league games being put back, is, you guessed it, television. Uefa has pushed Uefa Cup games to Thursday nights to clear the way for its flagship Champions League.

Increasingly, fixture lists published at the start of each season are looking like works of fiction. This does not only affect visiting fans - as an example, over 6,000 Newcastle season-ticket holders live 150 miles or more south of the city.

Fans, correctly, do not blame the broadcasters for this. They blame the Premier League for selling its soul. The league protests that its clubs have used the television billions to turn it into the self-styled "best league in the world". Oh really? Let's look at Uefa Champions League winners since the Premier League was founded in 1992-93. Italy has five if you include the 1992-93 title awarded to Milan after Marseille were found guilty of bribery and stripped of the title. Then come Spain with four, Germany and England with two each, with one for Portugal and Holland.

Although Germany has won the same number of Champions League titles as England it has maintained sane ticket prices. The vast majority of games kick off at the traditional time of 3.30pm on Saturdays, with the choice to sit or stand. Grounds such as the Veltins Arena in Gelsenkirchen, Signal Iduna Park in Dortmund, the AOL Arena in Hamburg and the Allianz Arena in Munich are world-class facilities hosting sell-out crowds for each match in style and comfort and with great value for money. Standing tickets can be had for less than £8. Seats go for £13-£40.

The Premier League's own research shows that seven out of 10 fans arrive at matches in private cars. When all of us have an obligation to reduce carbon emissions, switching more and more games to Sundays when public transport is at its worst will only encourage football's carbon footprint to grow. We need measures to promote public transport use. In Germany 75p for each match ticket is given to the local transport authority. In return fans get free public transport to and from the ground on production of their match ticket - the sort of simple, common-sense idea that we seem incapable of in this country.

Fans who oppose the dismemberment of traditional Saturday-afternoon football are not Luddites. Clubs' opposition to live television over many decades was stupid, it held the game back, but what we oppose is overkill. Football needs to remember that one of the reasons television pays such extraordinary sums for football is the packed and passionate grounds. The football-going fan-base is ageing and increasingly affluent, hardly an advert for the people's game.

The Premier League needs to address these issues long before the next broadcasting negotiations start some time in 2009. It will fail to act at its peril. Steven Powell is director of policy & campaigns for the Football Supporters' Federation

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/09/07/premier_league_greed_ignores_t.html

ciaran76

I remember about 10 years ago reading Terry Venables book and he said this would happen and could see in another few years that some clubs will have to give seats away for free to fans for certain games just to get people in the stadiums.