Should cage fighting be banned?.

yomchi

Ban it I say!

And Ban Hurling as well, them lads carry sticks

dublinario

Jon wrote:

Ban it I say!

And Ban Hurling as well, them lads carry sticks

You wanna take this into the cage? With hurls? Then we'll see how mouthy you are...

estebancambias

It should be banned, because watching it sucks.

estebancambias

It's not even funny how much wrestling is better than MMA.

yomchi

You wanna take this into the cage? With hurls? Then we'll see how mouthy you are

There'd be no cage big enough for both of us pilgrim

dublinario

Jon wrote:

There'd be no cage big enough for both of us pilgrim

Nobody calls me pilgrim, except members of my pilgrimage. I'll see you at midnight at Dublin Zoo, in the penguin cage. We don't have to fight there, but it's where I've been squatting.

dublinario

estebancambias wrote:

It's not even funny how much wrestling is better than MMA.

Are you talking Professional wrestling or Amateur Wrestling? If it's Amateur, well, Amateur (Freestyle, Greco-Roman etc) Wrestling constitutes a serious part of MMA. If you're talking about WWE, Professional-style wrestling, then you're comparing choreography with reality. It's like saying you prefer Eastenders to the Champions League final. It's a bonehead comparison.

dublinario

...to clarify, I'm calling you a bonehead.

yomchi

dublinario wrote:

Nobody calls me pilgrim, except members of my pilgrimage. I'll see you at midnight at Dublin Zoo, in the penguin cage. We don't have to fight there, but it's where I've been squatting.

God Damn! is that you in the penguin cage? Its me Ron, from the Chimpanzee cage! Small world hey?

dublinario

Ron you sick f*ck, for the last time, leave the God damned Chimpanzees alone, before Humanzee becomes more than just the name of a band.

yomchi

LOL, no come back there. I'll bow out...

Terry

estebanbanbanjo, stop trolling.
You too, Dublinario.

...to clarify, this is a warning to both of you.

Spyral

i thought we were more civillised in this country we dont kill babies and we dont have gladitorial fights. pedophilia is illegal.

but I gues we're not that civilised if that's what you consider entertaining

Dave!

Spyral wrote:

i thought we were more civillised in this country we dont kill babies and we dont have gladitorial fights. pedophilia is illegal.

but I gues we're not that civilised if that's what you consider entertaining

More like we're mature enough in this country to not throw a hissy fit over grown adults using their martial arts training to earn a living, by taking part in organised and regulated competitions in which 2 highly trained professionals wilfully engage in a well rounded fight.

Y'know, whatever :rolleyes:

"We don't kill babies".... LOL...... gimme a f*cking break :rolleyes:

4Xcut

Of course it should not be banned.

Firstly a ban would go against peoples fundamental right to choose(and don't give me some bull-**** about dealing drugs or killing people, i mean choose where it is not detrimental to others).

Second, its perfectly safe....well as safe as a fight can be. As stated above, its regulated, refereed and there's a doctor there.

Thirdly, its not uncivilised. Its an example of the coming together of several civilisations sporting pass-times.

Fourthly, its damn entertaining. If you don't like it, then fine, don't watch it.

And finally, and possibly most controversially, man is and has always been inately quite a violent creature, the same as many predators. Appreciating the idea of a controlled and fair fight is something that is quite natural to most. Have you ever seen a school yard when someone gets in a fight. Its made even more attractive by the fact that mma isn't just a brawl, but rather a display of skill as well.

shane86

Mairt wrote:

Oh, it should be banned because you personally don't like it, or understand it and thats it?.

And should we ban every sport you personally don't like or understand or is it just MMA?.

I was joking

I dont want it banned because I find it rubbish. Hell if that was the case bowls, olympic curling, WWF and baseball would all be banned. However from what I have seen of it it just looks rubbish. Continuing to hit an opponent when hes on the ground is what you see outside the pub. Its like the pikey boxing videos on youtube- they are entertaining to watch for their gore factor, but in fairness you are often watching two stocky, tough as nails but, in terms of skill, ultimately sh1t fighters.

Smellyirishman

shane86 wrote:

Continuing to hit an opponent when hes on the ground is what you see outside the pub. They are entertaining to watch for their gore factor, but in fairness you are often watching two stocky, tough as nails but, in terms of skill, ultimately sh1t fighters.

You've clearly not watched enough of it to form a reasonable opinion tbh.

Yes you can hit an opponent on the ground, but there are some illegal hits while the opponent is on the mat, plus, once they are no longer defending themselves, the fight is over. Nothing like what you see outside a pub :rolleyes:.

Fights are rarely "gory", it's more frequent than boxing alright but not every card is a bloodbath.

The days of stocky but tough as nails are LONG gone. As I believe Dragan pointed out in an earlier post, take a look at Randy Couture, GSP, Rich Franklin, Roger Huerta etc... and come back and tell me that these guys have no skill and are "stocky" ( Don't look at Chuck Liddell please ).

DonkeyStyle \o/

I think the question is- Why should it be banned?
Who are the victims we'd be protecting with laws against it? Is anyone being unfairly exploited?

I've got mixed feelings about it really... it's gripping entertainment and I can't take my eyes off it, but seeing some of the knockouts makes me feel a bit queasy... seeing someone take such a hard kick in the head or knee in the face that they're unconcious before they hit the ground... then recieving additional elbows in the head just to make sure... I can't help feeling bad for the KO'ed fighter... and a bit guilty that I've been enjoying watching it all happen.
For some reason I don't feel like I should be enjoying it.

Would they do it if there was no money involved? As a viewer am I indirectly paying them to do this? Maybe they are being exploited by the TV networks, or who ever throws suitcases full of money at them.
If it is all just about the money, it makes me sad to think people feel they need to do this to achieve the material goals that've been handed to them by a money-worshipping society.

I mean, if I'm willing to have my knob chopped off live on TV for a few million squid... am I a willing participant and everyone else should just stay out of it? or not watch if they don't like it? or should I be protected from myself or from people who'd offer me a big incentive to do it in the first place?
I know this sounds patronising to the athletes who train hard for these fights, but it's just for the sake of illustrating another possible angle... trying to establish if there actually is anyone involved for whom laws should be enacted to protect.

By all means ban it if there's someone being exploited... but not because someone in the media or government finds it distasteful.

UFC seems like a well run operation though... and I felt a lot less guity watching it after I found out nobody has ever been killed (or very seriously injured(?))... though I only found this out after having seen a number of pretty nasty-looking takedowns. :eek:

johnnyrotten

Yes

Dave!

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

I think the question is- Why should it be banned?
Who are the victims we'd be protecting with laws against it? Is anyone being unfairly exploited?

I don't think anyone's being unfairly exploited... I mean, they're all martial artists who have been training for years and taking part in amateur events for a long time too, before they could even think about going near the UFC. It's the same thing as boxers, or pretty much any pro martial artist.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

I've got mixed feelings about it really... it's gripping entertainment and I can't take my eyes off it, but seeing some of the knockouts makes me feel a bit queasy... seeing someone take such a hard kick in the head or knee in the face that they're unconcious before they hit the ground... then recieving additional elbows in the head just to make sure... I can't help feeling bad for the KO'ed fighter... and a bit guilty that I've been enjoying watching it all happen.
For some reason I don't feel like I should be enjoying it.

I hear ya. It's certainly not too pleasant when someone gets battered and doesn't resist! I would also feel bad for the fighter if I didn't realise that he's a professional fighter! It's not the first time he's been knocked out, and while it looks bad and painful, it's usually a superficial injury, or a concussion at worst. You can be guaranteed that of all the people who get knocked out, 9 out of 10 are more upset about the fact that they lost the fight that they've been training for months for, than that they got knocked out. Seriously! Ask any of the lads in the martial arts forum.

Also you need to stop thinking of it as a blood sport, which is what you appear to be doing. You say you "shouldn't" enjoy it, like you "shouldn't" want to slow down at a car crash! But these people are professional athletes being paid to do the thing that they love and that they've been doing for years and years at amateur level. There are thousands of people content with taking part in amateur competitions, just for the fun of it.

MMA requires ALOT of commitment and ALOT of training for years and years if you want to be a pro. The fighters are skilled in so many ways it's unreal. They'll train with different coaches for punching, wrestling, submissions, etc., to get the best from each discipline, and put it all together to be the best fighter they can be.

Seriously, don't be thinking of it as a blood sport! There is blood involved and we're programmed to think of that as horrendous, but losing a bit of blood during a fight is not a big deal. In the unlikely event of someone losing alot of blood, you can be guaranteed that there's supplies at hand to help them immediately. Again, 9 out of 10 fighters, if they get a cut above the eye for example, will be soooo p*ssed off that the blood is making it difficult to see their opponent! lol. It's really not a big deal.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Would they do it if there was no money involved? As a viewer am I indirectly paying them to do this? Maybe they are being exploited by the TV networks, or who ever throws suitcases full of money at them.
If it is all just about the money, it makes me sad to think people feel they need to do this to achieve the material goals that've been handed to them by a money-worshipping society.

Yes they would do it if no money is involved! Like I said, there's people who take part in amateur competitions all the time just because they enjoy the sport and the challenge. It's not a big deal when it's a boxing competition, it's really no different from that except you're not being constantly struck in the head for the whole fight.
I suppose you are indirectly paying them by watching.

They're honestly not being exploited! Don't think that because they're professional fighters that they've got nothing else going on in their lives... they're idiots, and this is the only avenue that they could go down. I'm sure that's the case in alot of situations, sure. But most of these lads would have been on the wrestling team in college, or joined martial arts clubs when they were kids and then broadened their skill level as they matured.

Like I mentioned earlier, off the top of my head -- one lad has a degree in history, another lad has a degree in maths and a masters, and was a high school teacher while he was working up to being a pro. It's not the case that the UFC owner is driving around poor areas looking for underpriviledged kids with a bit of fire in their bellies.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

I mean, if I'm willing to have my knob chopped off live on TV for a few million squid... am I a willing participant and everyone else should just stay out of it? or not watch if they don't like it? or should I be protected from myself or from people who'd offer me a big incentive to do it in the first place?
I know this sounds patronising to the athletes who train hard for these fights, but it's just for the sake of illustrating another possible angle... trying to establish if there actually is anyone involved for whom laws should be enacted to protect.

Not sure that's comparing like with like to be honest... I'd say a better analogy would be if you spent years practising lifting weights with your knob , would it be immoral to pay you to demonstrate that skill? I don't think it would.

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

By all means ban it if there's someone being exploited... but not because someone in the media or government finds it distasteful.

UFC seems like a well run operation though... and I felt a lot less guity watching it after I found out nobody has ever been killed (or very seriously injured(?))... though I only found this out after having seen a number of pretty nasty-looking takedowns. :eek:

Yeah UFC is well run... And they ensure that nothing gets out of line.

Actually, in the last UFC event, 1 fighter held a choke on another, and the other fighter tapped. The referee tried to stop the choker, but he kept the hold on until yer other man passed out (not the end of the world BTW, lol). So what did UFC do? Sacked the choker and witheld his money for winning, and deservedly so. They run it well and safely because if they don't, Nevada will come down on them like a tonne of bricks.

Just my thoughts on it!

estebancambias

This is not trolling but a simple fact.

ROH owns UFC.

I do MMA, but I am not a fan of the sport in general.

Dave!

That's great... Thanks for that.

estebancambias

Go back to Tallaght.

Dave!

But... I haven't left it today So I can't "go back" to it!

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My frickin head!

Peyton Manning

estebancambias wrote:

This is not trolling but a simple fact.

ROH owns UFC.

I do MMA, but I am not a fan of the sport in general.

Did Timothy McVeigh do MMA?

dlofnep

Mixed Martial arts is the greatest sport in the world. I've been an avid fan for over 10 years and I can safely say there is no other sport that demands so many requirements. As a fan and a casual student of MMA, I speak from experience.

If two people are willing to step into a cage or ring - then who is anybody to judge them? All individual sports are already official olympic sports - wrestling, boxing, judo - along with brazilian jiu-jitsu which would be an olympic sport had it not shared so many similarities with judo and had a bigger fanbase..

You can quit at any time you feel uncomfortable, or the ref can end the fight if he feels you are unable to defend yourself.

MMA owns everything else.

Peyton Manning

dlofnep wrote:

Mixed Martial arts is the greatest sport in the world. I've been an avid fan for over 10 years and I can safely say there is no other sport that demands so many requirements. As a fan and a casual student of MMA, I speak from experience.

If two people are willing to step into a cage or ring - then who is anybody to judge them? All individual sports are already official olympic sports - wrestling, boxing, judo - along with brazilian jiu-jitsu which would be an olympic sport had it not shared so many similarities with judo and had a bigger fanbase..

You can quit at any time you feel uncomfortable, or the ref can end the fight if he feels you are unable to defend yourself.

MMA owns everything else.

Fair enough, but how can you safely say it is the most demanding sport? Have you played every other sport out there for 10 years aswell? No? Then dont preach what you dont know to be true.

dlofnep

Archimedes wrote:

Fair enough, but how can you safely say it is the most demanding sport? Have you played every other sport out there for 10 years aswell? No? Then dont preach what you dont know to be true.

Because I see the work ethic involved.. The 3 sessions a day professional fighters put in every day. I've seen the work ethic of boxers, rugby players, soccer players, hurlers.. In my own personal opinion - I don't think any other sport in the world even comes CLOSE to the requirements MMA asks.

You have to be proficient in clinch, striking and the ground game.. And then you can further disect these areas into greco clinch, muay thai clinch.. free style wrestling, boxing, muay thai, brazilian jiu-jitsu top and bottom games.. If you're not proficient in every single one of these areas, you just won't make the cut. And then you have the physical requirements..

Go to an pro mma-gym, check out their workout and then come back to me with someone who works harder in any other sport.

Peyton Manning

See, now you only 'dont think' any other sport comes close. But you'll never know unless you take up every other sport.

the_syco

No. Reason: so we can see Triple H or Kane batter the sh|t out of someone.

estebancambias

Pro wrestling training is far demanding than MMA training, also the risks are just as great.

dlofnep

estebancambias wrote:

Pro wrestling training is far demanding than MMA training, also the risks are just as great.

LOL!

You've got to be kidding me.

Pro-wrestling training = learning how to take a bump.

MMA training = http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/sean+sherk/video/x2g5ns_sean-sherk-caveman-training_sport

breadmonkey

Archimedes makes me laugh.:)

Dave!

Archimedes wrote:

See, now you only 'dont think' any other sport comes close. But you'll never know unless you take up every other sport.

Y'see you're being pedantic there for no reason at all. I'm sure he hasn't taken part in every sport, or knows about every sport even, so why don't you just take it that he means "it's a really really really really really really demanding sport" instead of disecting rhetorical nuances for the sake of it. It's f*cking irrelevent -- you know the point he was making.

dlofnep

Archimedes wrote:

See, now you only 'dont think' any other sport comes close. But you'll never know unless you take up every other sport.

Semantics, semantics.

Fighting Irish

T-Boner wrote:

Do you see it as barbaric, two men enter an octagon wire mesh cage, one leave's a winner after beating the other dude senseless.

Or do you see it as a display of martial arts with a mix of boxing, wrestling & Karate?.

If people want to do it, let them, they know the consequences

Gillo63

Fighting Irish wrote:

If people want to do it, let them, they know the consequences

oh, so there are consequences?.. Would they mean being beaten senseless?..

mark.leonard

I find it very encouraging that so many people not directly involved in Irish MMA defend it on here. Obviously when a thread of this nature comes up in the Self Defence boards its to an already invested audience. Again, nice to see people not directly involved can appreciate its finer points.

If MMA is banned then boxing should follow. Boxing if far worse then MMA and has alot more Long ter effects then MMA. Main thing being if a boxer scores a punch , he has the glove to cushion the blow. A repeted number of these blows , causes serious damage. In MMA 1 of these blows normally scores a knockout. The fighter then has time to recover from that 1 blow.

Boxers = repeted blows to the head .

Jumpy

T-Boner wrote:

Do you see it as barbaric, two men enter an octagon wire mesh cage, one leave's a winner after beating the other dude senseless.

Or do you see it as a display of martial arts with a mix of boxing, wrestling & Karate?.

After reading the OP, I have a chant echoing in my head.


"Two men enter! One man leave!"

Guess what I watched the other night

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Mod's any chance of adding a pole? just to give the general consensus of posters?

Dave!

I don't think there's much doubt mate... most people seem to be saying "no"

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Most of the people posting seem to be saying no but I'm sure there's still a few lurkers out there scared to voice their opinions

Terry

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

Mod's any chance of adding a pole? just to give the general consensus of posters?

Couldn't be arsed.

muppetkiller

If Startrek has taught us anything, it's that most advanced civilizations have 1v1 cage fights. So by banning it now could prevent us in winning wars in the future...THINK OF THE CHILDREN !!!



For what it's worth I think UFC is a bloody impressive sport. Yes it's violent but it's very technical and the athleticism of the fighters is something you can't dismiss. It should not be banned.
I think the world really needs to worry more about smart bombs, Friendly fire, warped foreign policy and suicide bombers..
Oh and for the record Boxing bores the living daylights out of me and I think it should be banned as it's no longer a sport. It is the perfect example how money has distroyed a sport.

Wacker

estebancambias wrote:

Pro wrestling training is far demanding than MMA training, also the risks are just as great.

I'd say that the risks involved in pro-wrestling are far worse actually. I can name many fighters who have had necks broken in pro-wrestling matches (Taz, Sabu, Stone Cold to name three) off the top of my head, which has never happened in the UFC. Also, the wear and tear of consistently taking bumps will mange wrestlers knees, backs, and heads over time.

As far your point about pro wrestling training being harder, you are talking rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Anyone surprised?

Can you imagine someone looking like Mick Foley (who is a personal idol of mine, for the record) making it in the UFC in this day and age? How about the Nasty Boyz? Or Triple H, for that matter? The level of cardio required in MMA simply dwarves that required of most other competitive sports, and pro-wrestling has rest holds! You're talking rubbish and you know it.

Also, your previous point about ROH owning UFC is simply a lie. Produce some reliable sources for that, I dare you. Just think about the logistics of a promotion like ROH, which would have maybe 2,000 fans in attendance on their best day, owning a company that fills 10,000 seat arenas on a monthly basis. Simple lunacy.


Sorry folks for feeding the trolls!

estebancambias

Wacker tonight, one one one mma fight on Killiney Hill...

Good point about the whole UFC owning ROH.

arybvtcw0eolkf

estebancambias wrote:

I do MMA, but I am not a fan of the sport in general.

Nomally I won't feed the trolls, and why your tolerated here is beyond me. But for this one I'll make an exception.

Where are you training MMA, and what if any competitions have you entered?.

Have you trained in any other Martial Arts system, if so whats your background?.

dlofnep

Wacker wrote:

I'd say that the risks involved in pro-wrestling are far worse actually. I can name many fighters who have had necks broken in pro-wrestling matches (Taz, Sabu, Stone Cold to name three) off the top of my head, which has never happened in the UFC. Also, the wear and tear of consistently taking bumps will mange wrestlers knees, backs, and heads over time.

I'd absolutely agree with that! The risks are much higher in pro-wrestling, but the training for MMA is much more demanding. Think about how many pro wrestlers have died in the last few years, whether it be from steroids or accident - dozens!

Wacker

estebancambias wrote:

Wacker tonight, one one one mma fight on Killiney Hill...

Good point about the whole UFC owning ROH.

Sorry, I've more to be doing on a Friday night. I'll be up there at some point tomorrow mid-afternoon walking my dog if you want to wait around? I doubt you've anything better to be doing.