The Celtic Cup (Celtic with a K)

odonnell

Hi lads... just seen this on the BBC - a lot of people were calling for a return of the 'home internationals' where every couple of years Scotland would play England, but England have rejected the proposal, and so this seems to have sparked a new tournament idea - an idea i quite like the look of to be honest!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/6981446.stm

What do you reckon?

_blank_

Well, there is hardly any room left on the international calendar as it is, but if it went some way to alleviating the boredom of friendlies then it's a fine idea.

If it went in tandem with the addition of Welsh and Scottish (not the evil old firm ) teams entering the Setanta Cup then that would be a good step.

Mr Alan

can someone post up the article please?

odonnell

millersangel wrote:

can someone post up the article please?

Celtic Cup proposals take shape

SFA chief executive Gordon Smith is keen on a new tournament
Plans for a Celtic Cup featuring Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have taken another step forward.
Representatives from the four national associations met in Cardiff on Monday.

And Scottish FA chief executive Gordon Smith told the Daily Mail: "We are getting some answers on the issues surrounding a tournament like this.

"It could even start in 2008 or the year after at the latest - if we all reach agreement."

England were not interested in a return to the Home Internationals Championship, which was abandoned in 1984.

And the latest meeting failed to iron out whether the format will be a knockout competition or a league system.

"There is debate taking place but there are positive vibes from the four countries involved," Smith continued.

"Friendly dates from Fifa are available in August, November and February, so those could be used.

"And it could be every two years to keep space for other friendlies.

MY SPORT: DEBATE
Give your reaction to the Celtic Cup idea

"We are getting answers and we will meet again in a few weeks."

Smith also confirmed that Scotland manager Alex McLeish liked the idea.

"I have spoken with Alex McLeish and we are keen," said Smith.

"One of the attractions is the semi-competitive nature of it after our success at the Kirin Cup in Japan last year.

leninbenjamin

i've always wanted to see this idea happen since i first heard. friendlies are getting so damn boring these days, even with supposedly entertaining. i think a small competitive tournament like this played instead of some of these useless friendlies would possibly add a bit of spice to the calender as there would be quite a bit of pride at stake here, and hopefully would be more beneficial to a manager than playing some team who don't even show up in full.

i think i'd prefer to see it as a league, but even as a cup it would still be a decent idea.

odonnell

DesF wrote:

Well, there is hardly any room left on the international calendar as it is, but if it went some way to alleviating the boredom of friendlies then it's a fine idea.

If it went in tandem with the addition of Welsh and Scottish (not the evil old firm ) teams entering the Setanta Cup then that would be a good step.

Id love to see that happen actually - i think to stay segregated is to risk losing the leagues we have completely due to being overshadowed by things like the EPL etc.

Discussion is ongoing with the so called european league but i think fifa has to loosen the strings a little bit to allow for like what youre suggesting - some cross channel competition in our own respective wee backyards

id love to see it. no reason why it shouldnt happen. an irish and scottish league would be fantastic imo - but it might well be far too good an idea to see implemented - first all teams would need to have decent stadia etc.... there in lie the problems.

odonnell

leninbenjamin wrote:

i've always wanted to see this idea happen since i first heard. friendlies are getting so damn boring these days, even with supposedly entertaining. i think a small competitive tournament like this played instead of some of these useless friendlies would possibly add a bit of spice to the calender as there would be quite a bit of pride at stake here, and hopefully would be more beneficial to a manager than playing some team who don't even show up in full.

definitely - look at the 6 nations tournament.... everyone goes mad for it, even the non rugby fans. Like it or not we are a bunch of competitive so and so's who love nothing more than to beat each other down with a friendly right hook to the coupon and a broad grin

_blank_

odonnell wrote:

Discussion is ongoing with the so called european league but i think fifa has to loosen the strings a little bit to allow for like what youre suggesting - some cross channel competition in our own respective wee backyards

Do they, the Setanta is already a cross-jurisdiction competition. AFAIK there were already plans to invite the Welsh sides into it at some stage.

If only Rangers and Celtic would feck off to the EPL it would make it a bit easier to pick which Scottish teams to include

Limerick Dude

Yeah its a good idea, especially as it will replace some of those friendlys.

odonnell

its a murky old water Des. FIFA seem to stand by their rule that cross border competition cannot take place (when asked about the gers - tic EPL scenario), yet we see all over the world that this actually HAPPENS. The other bugger there is the EPL teams would vote to NOT allow the old firm entry...question is... how does old firm get into EPL as an end goal? Who knows...

But aye, id welcome Scottish teams invited to the Setanta cup. Anything for a bit of cross channel banter, competition, and drink.

_blank_

odonnell wrote:

its a murky old water Des. FIFA seem to stand by their rule that cross border competition cannot take place (when asked about the gers - tic EPL scenario)

Aha, you mean teams competing in another jurisdictions.

Like Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff City. And Derry City. And isn't Gretna in England, and Carlisle in Scotland?

We already have the Setanta Cup as a cross border competition, also the Royal League between Danish, Swedish and Norwegian clubs.

And this new thing between the MLS and Mexican sides that Bex was playing in recently.

odonnell wrote:

, yet we see all over the world that this actually HAPPENS

Hmm, I'm not so sure about the all over the world thing. Any other examples of teams playing in leagues outside their own countries?

odonnell wrote:

But aye, id welcome Scottish teams invited to the Setanta cup. Anything for a bit of cross channel banter, competition, and drink.

Yeah, last year when Derry played Gretna in the UEFA was good. Gretna thought they's wipe the floor with the 'small time Irish team'. Pfft.

odonnell

DesF wrote:

Aha, you mean teams competing in another jurisdictions.

Like Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff City. And Derry City. And isn't Gretna in England, and Carlisle in Scotland?

We already have the Setanta Cup as a cross border competition, also the Royal League between Danish, Swedish and Norwegian clubs.

And this new thing between the MLS and Mexican sides that Bex was playing in recently.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about the all over the world thing. Any other examples of teams playing in leagues outside their own countries?


Yeah, last year when Derry played Gretna in the UEFA was good. Gretna thought they's wipe the floor with the 'small time Irish team'. Pfft.

Gretna...pfft mate the quicker they go back down and let a real team into the SPL the better. Nah i cant name any other examples off the top of my head mate, i just recall a conversation a few years ago and there were portuguese, maltese, chilean.... you know, some fairly obscure teams mentioned, much in the vein of carlisle and gretna. Point is, it happens and FIFA says its not to be allowed for Rangers and Celtic - thats hypocrisy and surely an illegal thing to be doing - restraint of trade methinks?

Incidentally - the cups would probably be the same sort fo deal as say the champions league anyhow, so i doubt thered be much problem.

MBC

Celtic Cup is a great idea.......and really hope it goes ahead. I'm sure if it was a success the english would want in after a while.

smackbunnybaby

DesF wrote:

And isn't Gretna in England, and Carlisle in Scotland?

gretna is in scotland. they used to play in the english league for a while, but are now back in their rightful country.

Carlisle is definitely in England

Berwick Rangers are from England (well part of berwick is) but plays in scotland. this is mainly due to the fact they would have enormous distances to travel for away games.

shane86

Sounds alright, but can we really get excited about a 4 team match? After all, when, say, Ireland reached the quarters in 1990, it was the result of fighting through a qualifying group, getting a result against 3 teams and beating a 4th before losing by a single goal to one of the worlds best regarded teams. Whereas in the K Cup its simply 4 teams, how many games can you drag out of it?

_blank_

shane86 wrote:

Sounds alright, but can we really get excited about a 4 team match? After all, when, say, Ireland reached the quarters in 1990, it was the result of fighting through a qualifying group, getting a result against 3 teams and beating a 4th before losing by a single goal to one of the worlds best regarded teams. Whereas in the K Cup its simply 4 teams, how many games can you drag out of it?

Just like the egg chasers do for the six nations.

One game against each team, alternating home and away games each time the cup takes place.

That gives six games.

Twelve if it's home and away.

Thirteen if it's home and away and a final for the two teams finishing first and second.

How many friendlies are there per year?

OhNoYouDidn't

odonnell wrote:

Gretna...pfft mate the quicker they go back down and let a real team into the SPL the better. Nah i cant name any other examples off the top of my head mate, i just recall a conversation a few years ago and there were portuguese, maltese, chilean.... you know, some fairly obscure teams mentioned, much in the vein of carlisle and gretna. Point is, it happens and FIFA says its not to be allowed for Rangers and Celtic - thats hypocrisy and surely an illegal thing to be doing - restraint of trade methinks?

Incidentally - the cups would probably be the same sort fo deal as say the champions league anyhow, so i doubt thered be much problem.

restraint of trade? so my pub team can play in the Bundesliga?

more nonsense.

Big Ears

DesF wrote:

Hmm, I'm not so sure about the all over the world thing. Any other examples of teams playing in leagues outside their own countries?

Wellington Phoenix FC playing in Australia's A-League and New Zealand Knights FC used to..........thought you might have pointed that one out Des

~Rebel~

have any of those teams transfered straight across though? Id imagine celtic and rangers could sign up for the lowest league in england and over many years work their way up, but it just doesn't make sense to be able to transfer form one top league to another without doing the work..bit unfair on everyone below to be knocked down 2 further places.


<EDIT> back on topic, id love to see this happen. Much prefer it to the pointless friendlies we have now. Probably as competitive as we could make a friendly without involving england. All 4 teams are at a decent enough level now with some decent players as well so could be very good matches

Mushy

This Celtic Cup thing is a good idea. Was thinking it should be a bi-annual thing, replacing friendlies in those years, and then I saw it there. That way is good, as it gives variety through the years. And then do it like the 6N, home one year, away the next time.It could work well.

_blank_

Big Ears wrote:

Wellington Phoenix FC playing in Australia's A-League and New Zealand Knights FC used to..........thought you might have pointed that one out Des

Disappointed in myself actually.

Nice one.

Exit

Toronto FC play in MLS. And does Monaco count?

shane86

Exit wrote:

Toronto FC play in MLS. And does Monaco count?

As said there are plenty of crossovers which makes FIFAs thinking bizarre. Cardiff play in England, Derry* play in LOI etc etc




*: so i dont get no ra head blowback, thats in no way meant to signify that I think Derry should be a part of the UK

*gets hammered and sticks on Town I Loved So Well*

DaveH

DesF wrote:

Aha, you mean teams competing in another jurisdictions.

Like Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff City. And Derry City. And isn't Gretna in England, and Carlisle in Scotland?

We already have the Setanta Cup as a cross border competition, also the Royal League between Danish, Swedish and Norwegian clubs.

And this new thing between the MLS and Mexican sides that Bex was playing in recently.


Hmm, I'm not so sure about the all over the world thing. Any other examples of teams playing in leagues outside their own countries?

ah My Favourite Pub Question!!
Three Welsh teams play in England due to historical reasons e.g.Welsh league only started in 1991.
Derry City play in The Republic of Ireland's league due to security issues.
Berwick Rangers of England Play in the Scottish league due to Logistic reasons
Tornoto(sp) of Canda play in the USA league. This is due to lack of professional players in Canda, and will probably be joined by a 2nd Candain team by 2010.
Monaco play in France's soccer league
Auckland Knights of New Zealand play in the Australlian League - dont know the reason for that!
I think its 4 Liechestien teams play in the Swiss league.

I thinks thats all of them!!!

Dave H puts his anarack back on!