How much do programers make?

projectmayhem

qwytre wrote:

I would also say that Analysts get well paid, more than programmers. Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

tech support and (moreso) QA are good while you're studying to build up experience and earn your chops in a company. once you have your degree you can say you already have experience (especially with QA) and start on the ladder a little higher up...

amen

an analyst is were its at

not at all true

some analasyst are paid well others not depends on the persons and industry

a good person no matter what they will always be well paid

eg a good DB person who understands not only their domain data structures but can performance tune, identify and anticpate db issue will also get well paid

That would involve knowing absolutly everything about programming,and correcting others as they go along?

a lot of analysts know nothing about programing so how to describe/break down a business process into simple steps that are easy to program.
The problem with this is that they should be also be improving the process but a lot of them just take the existing manual and often inefficent process and get it turne into a computer program.

What you are really describing is a senior programmer or team lead who would have a lot of experience and knowledge of best practice in their particular language

Ginger

There are different types of Analysts.. Some are the business types, others are a mix of devs and analyst (as in devs who (d)evolved into analysts .. depends on your point of view )

The ones with technical/development knowledge can command better money and get renamed to Architects.. The map the process and can layout a system for the devs to follow.

Again it depends on the company. If they have sufficient resources to be able to split up the functions into more atomic blocks people become more specialised and as such start costing more.

More to point .. what do you want to do??? Do you like programming? Working only for the money is over-rated believe me. If you cant drag yourself out of bed in the morning then getting paid a lot of money isnt gonna solve that.

BostonB

jasonorr wrote:

Nobody is better off driving a taxi!!!

Whats does that mean? A lot of taxi drivers have a few houses in addition to whatever they make in the taxi. Seems like they do ok.

Ginger wrote:

....based on my experience and what I would be doing, the offers ranged from 75K to 150K. ...

Which is doing what exactly?

Ginger

BostonB wrote:

Which is doing what exactly?

.NET Development using BizTalk, SPS 3.0 & SAP. Its a high demand, low supply scenario as well.

The Corinthian

I'd echo the information of many of the responses here.

CS graduates are next to useless when they start off and require a lot of hand holding and monitoring to make sure they don't screw up. For them, €25k is not a bad starting salary as a rule of thumb.

After that it comes down to how good you are and what job you have for the next few years. Getting up to €30k - €40k within 2 - 4 years seems to be the trend.

After that it's a question of specialization and skill set. A Java or C# developer will earn more than a PHP developer. A generalist will earn less than one who has decided to specialize in a particular field (e.g. security, mobiles, Web services) - although in the latter case specific jobs are also harder to find. Additional qualifications (e.g. MCP) help. Experienced developers will get up to €50k - €85 in those cases, although this can also vary wildly.

Getting beyond this level means abandoning pure development and going down a management or analysis route. You'll also want 7+ years experience before even considering this level although you can leave pure development at any stage in your career (many do after only one or two years). Again, additional qualifications (e.g. MBA) will aid in this. Salary should go into the six figures if you do this right.

All of the above are for permanent positions and specific to the Irish market.

Ginger

The Corinthian wrote:

After that it's a question of specialization and skill set. A Java or C# developer will earn more than a PHP developer. A generalist will earn less than one who has decided to specialize in a particular field (e.g. security, mobiles, Web services) - although in the latter case specific jobs are also harder to find. Additional qualifications (e.g. MCP) help. Experienced developers will get up to €50k - €85 in those cases, although this can also vary wildly.

Getting beyond this level means abandoning pure development and going down a management or analysis route. You'll also want 7+ years experience before even considering this level although you can leave pure development at any stage in your career (many do after only one or two years). Again, additional qualifications (e.g. MBA) will aid in this. Salary should go into the six figures if you do this right.

All of the above are for permanent positions and specific to the Irish market.

As said, the first time I worked abroad I thought I was getting crap money in Euro terms but the cost of living was way lower there and the money was excellent in those terms. I just didnt bring much back to ireland after the conversion to Euro

Similarly the market in London for certain types of developers is extremely buoyant and the money is quite good but on the flipside the cost of living is also high.

Partly what helped my salary was additional qualifications after my degree

cousin_borat

Generally one of the better routes is to work as a coder within enterprise applications. From that to move into the Solutions or Enterprise Architect role a few years down the line.

From a contracting perspective Ireland has pretty crap rates 350-450 per day compared to the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark where rates are generally 600-800 per day. Also .Net does not seem to be a prevalent as in Ireland. Most of the best paying roles in Europe involve Oracle or SAP along with some J2EE development.

Gegerty

If it's coding you're into you should be looking to build up as much experience as possible. Don't worry about the salary for the 1st 5 years, so long as you are getting good experience you will be able to move into contracting with ease after 5 years. This is where the money is. VB contracting at the moment is minimum €350 a day. There's all the cons that come with it of course, you need to be prepared to be out of work etc but believe me €350+ a day covers it all. As you get older you may get sick of programming and want to move into an analyst role....add another €100 a day to your rates.

So my advice, get good at it. Get experience (I don't mean courses, practical experience is what matters) and the money will come.

AARRRGH

qwytre wrote:

Avoid Tech Support and Testing (QA) jobs, they are usually on the lower end in terms of salaries.

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

DublinWriter

Strange_Fruit wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.So basically,an analyst is were its at?That would involve knowing absolutly everything about programming,and correcting others as they go along?

Errrrrr....no.

Briefly an analyst breaks down and documents business procedures in a way that can be mapped into an I.T. system (sometimes called a 'fit-gap' methodology). Most analysts these days have little or no technical I.T. knowledge.

Basically stay away from the technical side unless you truely love it and even then be prepared to hate it once you get into your mid-30's.

The whole profession of programming has become totally debased.

If you really want to get ahead in corporate I.T. these days then you will find that a technical knowledge is a hinderance.

Hobbes

dublindude wrote:

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

I agree with you. Generic QE testing is monkey work, but QE script building and stuff requires a certain degree of skills.

Likewise with Tech Support. If your working a call center then yea they would be correct but the more experienced Tech Support pays very well but requires a lot of experience beyond just technical.

QE used to pay more in the US then development (before the outsourcing craze).

Civilian_Target

Thirded, a tester with the knowledge of how ingenious fools can be at breaking your application is an extremely valuable guy to have, and developer will hate him

To get through in CS these days you need practical experience. Two good assets to have are also a decent degree in CS or some maths discipline, and to be friendly, talkative and outgoing.

Many people in the IT industry are not capable programmers, and that's OK so long as you're not applying for dev work. Know your strengths and weakness, and don't be afraid of testing or support roles, there's as much scope there as anywhere else.

dazberry

Civilian_Target wrote:

Many people in the IT industry are not capable programmers, and that's OK so long as you're not applying for dev work.

Unfortunately they are. There are actually 2 types, those that can't, and those that shouldn't - having worked with one of each recently - the latter is far more dangerous.

D.

pwd

I think a lot of the rates being suggested on this thread are far too low.
The graduate rates are fair enough, but if someone is working for around 30k with a few years experience, and they are even half-competent at what they do, they should really really move jobs.

pwd

dublindude wrote:

I know plenty of non-senior QA people earning 50 - 70k.

QA can be anything from following scripts manually, which is pure monkey work, to setting up test harnesses for AJAX applications, which requires decent programming skills.

as a contractor in Ireland, you don't need too much experience to get in the high 30 thousands for the former. You'd be looking at double that for the latter.

AntiVirus

I've been writing financial software for 10 years now and I’m currently earning 70k but when I started I was earning only £12k and I still love my job!

cousin_borat

AntiVirus wrote:

I've been writing financial software for 10 years now and I’m currently earning 70k but when I started I was earning only £12k and I still love my job!

QFT, If you don't like programming and/or working in IT noone is forcing you to stay in it.

Otherwise stay in your chosen career, enjoy it until otherwise, get better at your job and reap the benefits.