Police crash McLaren pole party

v10

The espionage scandal continued to worsen for McLaren on Saturday, despite the team locking out the front row of the grid for Ferrari's home race at Monza.

It is understood that Italian police entered the paddock shortly after qualifying with formal notices of criminal investigation for key members of the British team, including team boss Ron Dennis and his deputy Martin Whitmarsh.

This development - that the leading figures in the spying affair could be charged criminally and even jailed - had been rumoured on Friday, with Modena prosecutors believing McLaren team members knew about, used and withheld their knowledge about Ferrari secrets.

McLaren's lawyers advised their client not to comment this weekend, and triple world champion Niki Lauda observed: "I can understand why they are nervous."

Championship leader Lewis Hamilton admitted after qualifying second on Saturday that he is 'concerned' about the steadily worsening saga, and the prospect that the World Motor Sport Council could come down hard on the team next Thursday.

"Unfortunately, whatever happens next week could not only affect the team, but also me and Fernando. Obviously we're all concerned," he said.

source

Ghost Train

Seems strange, since the team arn't situated in italy and don't work in italy, can't really see it going anywhere though unless there's some conclusive evidance... just another element in the whole messy saga... guess it makes the outcome of the appeal next week even more important... Has to be resolved (I think in McLarens favour if it's going to go away). Not good for the sport and if its not sorted will drag the sport down even further.

v10

Well I guess the problem is that what there being accused of is not only against the F1 rules but also illegal and the Italian Police have been invesigating it since the start.

So I suppose it shouldn't really be a suprise that when McLaren arrived in Italy they would be served with notice of the investigation ?

EvilMonkey

I don't know what the story is i assume the police must have some concrete evidence but why wait till after qualifying? They have been in Italy all week and were testing in monza last week.

Oblomov

You'vs got to wonder what it's all about, Stepney, Goughlin, drivers e-mails, what is now out of date car info, the FIA MSC declaring a decision then retrying for a variant,

The technical data, anyone with a camera would be able to gather lots of info, conversation with the mechanics in the local pasta bar, well, or similar, ... the level of expertise by the individual teams and recognising when something new is being tried.... The John Barnard fiasco, he draws plans for the cars in Surrey and the engineers in Italy change them and wonder why the cars were not going as fast as .... Hmm, the sillies go on.

Is it really just about info? Who won the championshi[p last year, both constructors and drivers?? When the infomation would been most helpfull.

Are Ferrari that malevolent? Is there another reason we are all missing?

Anyone of the hierarchy of the drawing office could learn bundles just with a pit lane walk, and seeing what teams is doing what.

How do you prove intellectual copyright? that only one person had the unique idea of bolting the front damper to an adjustable link....... yer right..

v10

Oblomov wrote:

How do you prove intellectual copyright?

Surely a 780 page technical document belonging to Ferrari that ended up in the hands of McLren is one place to start ...

steviec

I find it strange how the media seem to be depicting McLaren as the victims here, and as ever the evil Ferrari empire is somehow guilty of swaying the FIA (and the Italian police), where the actual crimes McLaren have commited are insigificant by comparison. It's ridiculous.

Frank Bullitt

steviec wrote:

I find it strange how the media seem to be depicting McLaren as the victims here, and as ever the evil Ferrari empire is somehow guilty of swaying the FIA (and the Italian police), where the actual crimes McLaren have commited are insigificant by comparison. It's ridiculous.

Its funny that you mention that, when the original verdict was made the English press were straight to criticize Ferrari for moaning about the verdict, were as the rest of the press in Europe were outraged at the fact that McLaren didn't get penalized, we only get the English presses opinion on it and its them that keep going on about Ferrari moaning, if it were the other way around then the English press would be looking for Ferrari blood.

Oblomov

Surely a 780 page technical document belonging to Ferrari that ended up in the hands of McLren is one place to start ..

Tut, tut, in the hands of an employee. Whole different ball game.

Ok But that's theft, how do you prove that any of the ideas in the document where copied or used?

Battles in the software and literature world have had similar problems in proving the unique single source of an idea, but within the motor sport the 'new' ideas are invariably developments of working elements.

The draconian attitude of the FIA in 'demandiing' copies of driver's e-mails, smacks of an OTT reaction.

The almost xenophobic reaction of the press, would the Italian press ever speak ill of Ferrari? Can you Imagine the Gazzetta di Modena leading with an article how Ferrari cheated with a flexible floor..... LOL one of the articles in the current edition is a 60th anniversary of the Ferrari victories in the Museum and 10 year old plans to use a dukes old home.

v10

Oblomov wrote:

Surely a 780 page technical document belonging to Ferrari that ended up in the hands of McLren is one place to start ..

Tut, tut, in the hands of an employee. Whole different ball game.

Ok But that's theft, how do you prove that any of the ideas in the document where copied or used?

Battles in the software and literature world have had similar problems in proving the unique single source of an idea, but within the motor sport the 'new' ideas are invariably developments of working elements.

The draconian attitude of the FIA in 'demandiing' copies of driver's e-mails, smacks of an OTT reaction.

The almost xenophobic reaction of the press, would the Italian press ever speak ill of Ferrari? Can you Imagine the Gazzetta di Modena leading with an article how Ferrari cheated with a flexible floor..... LOL one of the articles in the current edition is a 60th anniversary of the Ferrari victories in the Museum and 10 year old plans to use a dukes old home.

I agree this is probably being blown completely ott by the media and I hear what you're saying about the Italian press, but likewise find me some British media that has suggested that McLaren may be guilty here.

The FIA may well of had very good reason to ask for those emails etc, I don't know nor do you because we don't know what they know

There are suggestions going around that indeed the FIA may have evidence that can prove McLaren even went as far as testing certain technology found within those Ferrari documents but again its all specualtion at this point probably created by the various media.

Sure tomorrow we'll know for sure ...