Stan

Pal

Nothing personal since I've never actually met the man, but I read the Slovakia v Ireland thread ( some of it) just to get the generally held view on Stan but its gone off topic quite a bit talking about colours and stuff.

That said, I'm not a Stan fan and would like to see a change but accept that there's more chance of seeing God. Never actually wanted him in the first place as I didn't rate him as a player either.

Am I being unfair in saying that he now messes up all the time with crazy team selections/substitutions/interviews and really looks out of his depth ?

~Rebel~

His only real fault was accepting the job when he must have known he wasn't up to it. I know he's not messing up on purpose, im sure he's got his reasons for his decisions, he just doesn't have the experience to back up these decisions.

Delaney offering him the job in the first place, over people who had actually managed teams, was the biggest crime.

I feel quite sorry for Stan at this point, he's like a deer caught in the headlights or something. Ideally id love to see a change throughout the organisation but id say the absolute best we can hope for is a change of manager, and even then only after this qualifying campaign is done and dusted.

_blank_

It isn't Stan's fault.

He took the Ireland Manager job, ffs I'd have taken it if I was offered.

The blame lies fully with the idiots who put him there. The FAI.

tdv

He has no media skills. But saying that he has no skills in any department.

At the end of the day "he's the gaffer"

mikemac

Here's something I don't see anyone mention.
Stan is on a four year contract so maybe the FAI won't fire him as then they have to compensate him and that's a fair chunk of their budget

And maybe Stan won't resign as he'd lose this payoff.

If I was in Stan's position and was due to leave the job today, I'd wait to be sacked and get 2 years compensation rather then resign.

DaveH

I dont think Stan is up to much as a manager and his subs last nite were very questionable.
However, we really dont have it in Midfield
I remember Billy Baxter saying a good few years ago(nearly 10). Were lucky our best player is a central midfield player. Which was true, Keaneo really carried the irish team and now we dont have a midfield player.

People give out about Robbie Keane dropping to deep but as Liam Brady said last night..He has to drop that deep because he's not getting the ball, its the same for Kevin Doyle.
I was at the Arsenal - Man City game 2 weeks ago and noticed that Stephen Ireland was very good in the first half, but he was knackered in the second half and offered nothing, he was subbed around about the 60 min mark.
Carsely - You know what you will get from him
Kilbane - Same again, 100% all the time but its just all effort
McGeady - In my opinion is the most over rated player going. If he wasnt wearing a Celtic jersey Id be surprised to see him in an Ireland one.
Hunt - Should of played but he's a winger
Andy Reid - Should have played he would have at least held the ball up.

other then that were really lacking.

And just to add, we really are the 3rd team in the group so in reality and cold light of day, we doing as well as I expected at the start of the campaign.

leninbenjamin

Stan seems to be best when injuries force his hand - i'm hoping Irelands withdrawal will mean we'll see Reid in some capacity... then again he could just switch Kilbane in there... lets hope he gets injured too so then Stan will be forced to play reid in the centre and hunt on the wing. As for McGeady, never watched him play for Celtic but in an Ireland jersey i'd nearly prefer everyone else in the squad to start ahead of him.

smemon

micmclo wrote:

Stan is on a four year contract so maybe the FAI won't fire him as then they have to compensate him and that's a fair chunk of their budget

Story of the FAI's life :rolleyes:

sign someone to be a big long contract, back them to the hills when they start losing matches, then buckle under the pressure of fans/media and shell out a fat compo package..

when will they ever learn :cool: one tournament at a time imo.. nobody wanted stan in (no fans). He's an irish legend and did us proud, so we all gave him a chance, but his future was decided a long time ago amongst the fans.

He could well be here for the WC qualifiers, but lose a match early on and it's game over.. just like mc carthy and kerr..

that then leaves the next manager facing an uphill struggle, being thrown in at the deep end, bottom of a group after 2 or 3 matches, needing wins..

process repeats, and repeats again..

Pal

Kilbane doesn't cut it either.
He loses the ball with regularity. Essentially a liability. Worse than a useless player.
Surprises me that he even gets a game in the EPL.
Shocks me that Stan keeps picking him.
I agree about Delaney. He is not what Ireland need but we are stuck with him.
weds night could be a watershed but dont hold your breath.
remember, fans have no vote. FAI is an autocracy.

smemon

Pal wrote:

remember, fans have no vote.

fans and media combined do have a vote and a very strong one.. just ask mccarthy or kerr.

the FAI will back someone so long as the fans are happy.. once the media takes out the carving knives, everyone jumps in and you have phone-ins, uproar on forums, it works it's way into the 'neutral' minds and then the pressure is too much..

Mc carthy was gone the minute he sent Keane home in my eyes..

Kerr was gone the minute he took a huff with the media..

Stan will be gone because of the cyprus/san marino matches..

Between the media and the fans, we've effectively sacked two managers and could well be making it 3 by the end of the year

cournioni

Couldn't believe Stan didn't switch O'Shea and Kelly. It was obvious that Kelly was getting roasted at left back and the Slovaks went down that wing nearly 90% of the time. I think this really unstabled Ireland and caused the big panic in defence for 15 minutes before the first goal.

It was plainly obvious, yet super Stan did nothing about it. Well done you fúcking genious.

Call Me Jimmy

In my wildest dreams stan is sacked after we lose to the spell czechs but as someone said above he'll probably be given until a couple of games into the world cup campaign to f uck up some more and then we'll be chasing wins with a new manager etc...

PauloMN

Something struck me about what Richard Dunne said post-match. Now I'll admit I was in a pub and it was difficult to hear, and I had a few on board but I got the jist of it. He said that we'd hoped for 4 points from the 6, and while the result could have been better, we could still make the 4 points.

Now, surely that's the wrong attitude to have instilled in the players before the games? We absolutely should be aiming to win our matches, whether that be San Marino or Germany. We should be all out for 6 points from those two matches, but it seems an "acceptable" level was in the players minds pre-match.

Between that and an obvious lack of respect for the likes of Cyprus and San Marino, you have to question Stan's managerial skills. San Marino nearly drew against us FFS, and while we have to blame the players to some degree, they are mostly EPL players and are all streets ahead of the San Marino and Cyprus squads. It is obvious that we simply expected to hump both San Marino and Cyprus, and it back-fired on us bigtime. The manager is hugely responsible for such poor results against lowly opposition and will have to eventually move on.

Just when that will happen is the million-dollar question.

MrJoeSoap

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Couldn't believe Stan didn't switch O'Shea and Kelly. It was obvious that Kelly was getting roasted at left back and the Slovaks went down that wing nearly 90% of the time. I think this really unstabled Ireland and caused the big panic in defence for 15 minutes before the first goal.

It was plainly obvious, yet super Stan did nothing about it. Well done you fúcking genious.

I thought that as soon as I saw the teamsheet. Surely if you have a right back and a bit of a utility man who has played both full back positions on a few occasions they should pick themselves? Not for Stan apparently...

shane86

Ive stood up for him before. Hiddink or Mourhinio couldnt have made better of the injury situation re Cyprus. His post SM reaction had me wondering, seeing as it was complete waffle. The sub descisions last Sat may well have cost us qualification, though in truth the defenders themselves have to take the heat for not being around the back in force within the final minutes. We need someone who can make common sense descisions, and, most importantly, doesnt give Robbie his game every time hes not injured purely on the basis of his performances 4 years plus ago.

Mr Alan

the lack of leadership on the field in wat worries me most, Dunne/Given need to start shouting orders at the back, getting our proverbial 'house' in order. It was all over the place at times on Saturday. Keane shouldn't have been made captain, Dunne or Given were the obvious choice and as they were at the back and could direct things when we were under pressure, which lets be honest, we're quite regularly gonna be.

As things are at the minute, Robbie goes missing, and we just look a shambles at the back

BaZmO*

Pal wrote:

Kilbane doesn't cut it either.
He loses the ball with regularity. Essentially a liability. Worse than a useless player.
Surprises me that he even gets a game in the EPL.
Shocks me that Stan keeps picking him.

That's such a barstooler comment. Kilbane always gives 100% in every game he plays in, granted that sometimes he makes some blunders but in fairness so does nearly everyone. The fact of the matter is we're not exactly blessed with a glut of midfield players that regularly get their game at club level and at the moment he's the best of a bad bunch.

And as you've alluded to already, how can that many managers (Premiership and Irish) be wrong?

PauloMN wrote:

Something struck me about what Richard Dunne said post-match. Now I'll admit I was in a pub and it was difficult to hear, and I had a few on board but I got the jist of it. He said that we'd hoped for 4 points from the 6, and while the result could have been better, we could still make the 4 points.

I was actually saying that to a mate the other night. It's one thing for Stan to think but to start telling the players that we'll be happy for 4 points before we even kick a ball is ridiculous.

It also means that Stan has set himself up for a barrage of criticism (as if people need an excuse) if he gets anything less than a win on Wednesday because he has essentially admitted that we are out of the running. He should be saying to the press (an team) that he expects to win every game without fail regardless of what he actually thinks.

The more and more I watch Stan's tenure as manager unfold, the more I start to think that it's a clever ploy from the FAI to decrease the country's expectations at international level. (I am aware that using the words "clever" and "FAI" in the same sentence is an oxymoron)

BaZmO*

millersangel wrote:

As things are at the minute, Robbie goes missing, and we just look a shambles at the back

The only reason reason why Robbie is "going missing" is because he has to go deep in search of the ball due to our lack of midfield. It's not as if he's not making the effort while on the pitch.

_blank_

BaZmO* wrote:

That's such a barstooler comment.

:eek:

whatawaster

So Hiddink or Mourinho would have lost 5-2 to Cyprus? I Don't think so.

Ever time I see Finnan (imo the most reliable Right back in the Prem) at LB I want to cry.

BaZmO*

DesF wrote:

:eek:

:eek: all you like. He was one of the better players there on Saturday night.

_blank_

BaZmO* wrote:

:eek: all you like. He was one of the better players there on Saturday night.

It wasn;t aimed at ZK, it was aimed at you, calling someone a barstooler.

BaZmO*

DesF wrote:

It wasn;t aimed at ZK, it was aimed at you, calling someone a barstooler.

And you're implying that I'm a barstooler?

Mr Alan

BaZmO* wrote:

The only reason reason why Robbie is "going missing" is because he has to go deep in search of the ball due to our lack of midfield. It's not as if he's not making the effort while on the pitch.

i know.

i aint giving him stick here, simply pointing out that in games we don't dominate (San Marino, Cypurs . . . oh wait :eek: ) he cannot get involved in a game the same way Dunne/Given/Finnan can.

He should just concentrate his efforts on being ready to take/create a chance when we get the opportunity.

jebusmusic

He's not up to the task, plain and simple.

If he was giving it his all and doing everything he could to win the games/ field a strong team then he'd have everyones full support.

But he's almost single handedly costing this team any chance it had of finishing second.

O'Shea and Kelly play LB/RB day in day out in training and club matches (O'Shea playing midfield the odd time). It's ridiculous and pointless to swap them. All he's doing is making them nervous, uncomfortable and out of position. I guarantee if Finnan had been fit he probably still would have played O'Shea RB and Finnan LB!!

You could see, especially for the equalising goal how lost they were at the back. O'Shea was out of position every time. Himself and McShane didnt know who to take and most times neither of them took a player.

Persisting with Kilbane when Hunt is available and playing well is just suicide, and Andy Reid, if not started should at least have been brought on.

He doesnt know what he's doing. The players cant say anything because it will break what little morale must be left in the squad. If it doesnt change soon we could find ourselves 4th or 5th seeds for future WC and EC qualifying groups, and then we're really fcuked.

Nunu

jebusmusic wrote:

He's not up to the task, plain and simple.

If he was giving it his all and doing everything he could to win the games/ field a strong team then he'd have everyones full support.

But he's almost single handedly costing this team any chance it had of finishing second.

O'Shea and Kelly play LB/RB day in day out in training and club matches (O'Shea playing midfield the odd time). It's ridiculous and pointless to swap them. All he's doing is making them nervous, uncomfortable and out of position. I guarantee if Finnan had been fit he probably still would have played O'Shea RB and Finnan LB!!

You could see, especially for the equalising goal how lost they were at the back. O'Shea was out of position every time. Himself and McShane didnt know who to take and most times neither of them took a player.

Persisting with Kilbane when Hunt is available and playing well is just suicide, and Andy Reid, if not started should at least have been brought on.

He doesnt know what he's doing. The players cant say anything because it will break what little morale must be left in the squad. If it doesnt change soon we could find ourselves 4th or 5th seeds for future WC and EC qualifying groups, and then we're really fcuked.

I like everyone else have my say about team selection and whether I agree or disagree, but I had to quote this.

Kelly has ben playing left-back for Birmingham all season!
It's so ironic how so many people lambast Staunton about things like this...and genuinely believe they know more about who should be playing where.

O'Sheas best game for Ireland was against Wales at home when he played right-back. So, with that in mind and the fact that Kelly is plying his trade at left back this season I don't see anything wrong with the positioning of our back four last Saturday.

This alleged swapping of the full backs has been the main crux of many fans argument that Staunton does not know what he's doing:rolleyes:

threebeards

He came out with what I thought was an outrageous comment on Saturday night - he was asked if the weather had made any difference to his team selection to which he replied that he had picked the team last week :eek:

Surely the players on the fringes would be well p1ssed off to know that they had spent the week busting a gut and it wasn't going to make any difference anyway?

Mr Alan

Nunu wrote:

This alleged swapping of the full backs has been the main crux of many fans argument that Staunton does not know what he's doing:rolleyes:

its blatantly obvious that Staunton has NO idea what he is doin.

Ok, you've explained the swapping of full backs.

Why does he also do it with Finnan and O'Shea?????

Why did he put on Gibson, a child with one cap in a friendly when he had Andy Reid on the bench who most people felt should have started anyway?

Why did he take off Ireland and put on Douglas, a player (if i'm not mistaken)that is struggling at Leeds, a League 1 side? Why not Reid? Why not Hunt?

The guy doesn't have a clue

_blank_

millersangel wrote:

The guy doesn't have a clue

QFT

jebusmusic

millersangel wrote:

its blatantly obvious that Staunton has NO idea what he is doin.

Ok, you've explained the swapping of full backs.

Why does he also do it with Finnan and O'Shea?????

Exactly, he's been playing Finnan, a consistant performer at RB for Liverpool at LB constantly.

All that Kelly playing at LB for Birmingham proves is that Steve Bruce is equally retarded. He was a RB for spurs (when he played) for years. He doesnt have a left foot.

Mr Alan

excuse my ignorance folks . . . wat does QFT stand for?

_blank_

Quoted For Truth.

Nunu

jebusmusic wrote:

Exactly, he's been playing Finnan, a consistant performer at RB for Liverpool at LB constantly.

All that Kelly playing at LB for Birmingham proves is that Steve Bruce is equally retarded. He was a RB for spurs (when he played) for years. He doesnt have a left foot.

That's a stupid response. Why can't you just admit that like so many other fans you had no clue that Kelly is playing left back this season?
Now you're questioning Steve Bruce just because I informed you Kellys not a novice at left back. I'll give you some more info aswell - he played a few games at left back for Spurs too.

You also say he's right footed so shouldn't be playing at left-back. I think you're changing your tune now. This was not your reasoning for why he shouldn't play there, you just presumed like so many others he never played there before.

By that logic why should O'Shea play left-back when he is also right-footed?


Look, I just wanted to point out how so many have brought up this point and how ironic it is.
I still like everyone else question the substitions made. This is where Staunton is really falling down. The mentality has to change. We are more than capable of finishing second in this group...and subsequently performing well at a majoer championship.

event

BTW, who wwould you all like to get instead of stan

be realistic now, bearing in mind the FAI's budget

_blank_

Remembering how Brian Kerr got on.

What about

Pat Fenlon.
Stephen Kenny.

Roy Evans maybe.

Mr Alan

Kenny Dalglish.....if thats too hopeful

John Aldridge, he wanted the job in the first place.

_blank_

Remembering how Brian Kerr got on.

What about

Pat Fenlon.
Stephen Kenny.

Roy Evans maybe.

_blank_

millersangel wrote:

Kenny Dalglish.....if thats too hopeful

It's a silly suggestion at this stage.

Ten years ago maybe, but he's way too long out of the game now.

Mr Alan

Ya think he may have forgotten to magage a team?

Think with the realistic options we would have, he is among the best, and its not as if he is Bobby Robson old

_blank_

What about Joe Kinnear.

Or Big Ron.

chopperbyrne

Claudio Ranieri was available when the job was given to Stan.

He would have been a far better choice.

Aldridge too.

gosplan

chopperbyrne wrote:

Claudio Ranieri was available when the job was given to Stan.

No way would Ranieri take it. If he did he'd get a few decent results and then be outta there the first decent offer he got.

I don't think signing inexperienced Irish managers is a bad idea. IMO it's better then signing ones with experiences of failure only.

The thing is that they need to improve rapidly and you shouldn't give them 4 year contracts before they show the ability to do this. I think Stan has improved but I'm not so sure he'll ever reach the required level.

Magic Pips

millersangel wrote:

Ya think he may have forgotten to magage a team?

Think with the realistic options we would have, he is among the best, and its not as if he is Bobby Robson old

He'd(Dalglish) be a shoe in, hates Roy Keane as much as the FAI

aidan24326

~Rebel~ wrote:

I feel quite sorry for Stan at this point, he's like a deer caught in the headlights or something. Ideally id love to see a change throughout the organisation but id say the absolute best we can hope for is a change of manager, and even then only after this qualifying campaign is done and dusted.

For me the whole feeling sorry for poor Stan thing is wearing very thin. He's a smug cnut who in interviews just stands there smirking and spouting out the same garbage every time. He must think we're all eejits. At least show a little humility and admit the times where he's gotten it wrong. People would have taken to him alot more if he showed a better attitude.

If he was any way clever at all he could have got the fans on his side, as most people blame the FAI first and foremost. But Staunton has even less of a clue of how to speak/handle the media than he does about managing a top level football team. He must be the most inarticulate manager in the game and that's saying something. He isn't qualified to manage in the lower divisons of the game never mind an international team with ambitions of qualifying for the major tournaments.

As for a replacement I really don't know. What will you get for 250K euros? (about 170K stg) Anybody who's already done it at the top level won't come in for much less than 1M per year.

ntlbell

aidan24326 wrote:

As for a replacement I really don't know. What will you get for 250K euros? (about 170K stg) Anybody who's already done it at the top level won't come in for much less than 1M per year.

This is the thing that gets to me, you don't need a top top top manager to manage Ireland for as long as I can remember the squad has practically picked itself, all you have to do is nothing fuc*ing stupid, keep it simple, you could put just about any Irish fan in the job and he'd be ok.

LuckyLloyd

ntlbell wrote:

This is the thing that gets to me, you don't need a top top top manager to manage Ireland for as long as I can remember the squad has practically picked itself, all you have to do is nothing fuc*ing stupid, keep it simple, you could put just about any Irish fan in the job and he'd be ok.

Yeah. Every year there is a glut of managers sacked at the premiership and championship level. I could say with a high degree of certainty that 85%+ of them would manage the Irish team with at least twice as much competence as Staunton. Isn't Graeme Souness currently out of work? :rolleyes:


I still stick rigidly to the position that this is the ultimate fault of those that hired Staunton. This is, at the most basic level, an incredibly significant HR error. A man with little or no management experience is offered the job on the proviso that he would be supported by a man with declining physical and mental vibrancy - a man who reasonably would not have been expected to take up gainful employment on a regular basis (even part - time) for the remainder of his life. That may seem like a crude statement to some. But it is a harsh reality.

The fact that John Delaney is apparantly not accountable for his baffling incompetance in his current position irritates me greatly. He promised us a world class replacement when he decided to axe Kerr. Grand, we thought. Simply put, he has failed to deliver on this stated intention. The FAI has continued to be an inefficient and incompetant organisation under his helm. The national team continues to regress at a steady rate. If this man was a CEO in the international business environment he would have been put to the sword by impatient shareholders long ago. Unfortunately, we the fans can do nothing to stem the powerful tide of idiocy that flows from Merrion Square. **** Delaney. Twat.

As far as Staunton is concerned, he was offered a really cool job with a decent salary. He jumped at it. I don't personally blame him for that. But he cannot be allowed to continue beyond this campaign. As he has proved that he is completely incapable of doing the job adequately.

In terms of the players, I would get rid of McGeady and O' Shea IMMEDIATELY. I would rip that armband off Keane and pass it to Dunne. And I would do it infront of the rest of the players and note to Keane that he has disgraced the legacy of people like Cantwell, Giles, McCarthy, Keane and Staunton himself. I would start Hunt on the left on Wednesday. And I would put Kilbahne in the centre with Carsley. Because he runs his ****ing bollox off and he wouldn't have turned his back on that ball in the 91st minute like O' Shea. One of them has supposed talent but the other deinately has guts. That's they type of thing Irish teams are supposed to ****ing have. "We don't get beat" Staunton roared at his teammates after anthems in Tirana many years ago. Because right now I don't like this Irish team. Kerr lost to France 1 - 0 in Landsdowne back two years ago. But I was proud of the effort they put in that night. There has been nothing to be proud of under Staunton. And that is ultimately Delaney's fault.


End Rant. :mad:

OhNoYouDidn't

chopperbyrne wrote:

Claudio Ranieri was available when the job was given to Stan.

He would have been a far better choice.

Aldridge too.

Aldridge my arse, he has been unemployed for 6 years for a reason.... Didn't even get an interview for the B*hs job ffs.

Hitzfield applied for the Irish job and wasnt even granted an interview. Would have been available for less than the Bobby Staunton double act too

GuanYin

I was quietly optimistic that Staunton was growing into the job over the last few games, I was even so naive to think that the Denmark result might just means something in terms of showing a glimmer of team confidence.

I feel ashamed that I allowed myself to be so stupid.

Staunton, imho, showed on wednesday that he had absolutely no clue about his best team, his best players, their strengths and weaknesses nor any tactical nuances.

First off, his first team was ludicrously unbalanced and baffling. Kilbane, exposed as a winger in the premiership and now playing at left back is preferred on the wing to Reid or Hunt, Reid and experienced and creative winger, Hunt one of the on form players in the premiership.

This is made all the worse by the inclusion of Kelly at left back who was exposed as a player not up to this level.

McGeady, was given a starting berth, it seems, on the back of the friendly against Denmark, when other players who could make similar or better claims from the game were omitted. Ireland should have been right wing and our only passer in the squad, Reid should have been started.

The team was set up to have no core, no passing and hence no bite. This was pretty much shown the second Slovakia asked any question of us (they had ludicrously high possession I believe).

The substitutions were even more baffling. Gibson, maybe I can see why he came on, but really, a competitive debut to a player more about steele than the finesse that we needed? In the end, putting a defender on was the nail in the coffin... as soon as Douglas came on I knew the game was up, he practically invited them on to us.

All this after talking up and aggresive winning mentality away from home?

Shocking stuff. The question now is, does he go now or half way through the WC campaign?

_blank_

psi wrote:

I was quietly optimistic that Staunton was growing into the job over the last few games, I was even so naive to think that the Denmark result might just means something in terms of showing a glimmer of team confidence.

Friendly games mean absolutey nothing.

I've been saying it on here for years, and been shot down by many, many people. Maybe now a few more people will realise.

psi wrote:

I feel ashamed that I allowed myself to be so stupid.

And so you should be!!

psi wrote:

Staunton, imho, showed on wednesday that he had absolutely no clue about his best team, his best players, their strengths and weaknesses nor any tactical nuances.

I take it you mean Saturday, but still, he's been showing this for a much longer time than that.

psi wrote:

Shocking stuff. The question now is, does he go now or half way through the WC campaign?

Neither, I cannot see Delaney sacking him, and he certainly hasn't the cop on to resign.

LuckyLloyd

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

Aldridge my arse, he has been unemployed for 6 years for a reason.... Didn't even get an interview for the B*hs job ffs.

Aldrige should not be an option. Nor does he need to be.

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

Didn't even get an interview for the B*hs job ffs.

Holy shít, I thought everyone knew this story, obviously not though.

John Aldridge never applied for the Bohs job, he was never interested.

The phone call to the Bohs board member, purporting to be from Aldridge, was actually from Davey 'Scouse' Rogers, as a piss take.

I can't believe you still think Aldridge wanted that job.

Put a smile on my face this morning anyway.