Czech Vs Ireland

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gandalf wrote:

Well if England make it to the EC I will be supporting them.

+1

DSB

Anyone who supports an English club yet hates the English national team as a result of years of oppression really needs to reassess their train of thought.

Running Bing

Kaiser2000 wrote:

He's such an arrogant tosser too.. but it's all bluster cause he knows he hasn't a clue!

Thats the worst part he is so stubborn.



It is like he is trying to do a bad impression of a serious manager like Alex Ferguson or Brian Clough. Clueless.

mewso

KdjaCL wrote:

Because France are also over rated, the manager thing has a big effect if you play 451 with players that suit the formation.

The Czechs are overrated if you ask me. I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect a decent manager to have taken our squad to Euro 2008 considering the Czechs who are quite simply not what they were and the Slovaks. Of course we don't have a world beating team but we have a decent team that should have done better.

It's too easy to excuse a manager because of the players. I don't blame Stan at all. He took the job. Who wouldn't. But if you take the job then be prepared to answer for your decisions.

BaZmO*

Seriously lads, don't turn this into another IRA, English Clubs, Celtic thread mess like the last one.

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

I would expect them to beat Slovakia and Cyprus. Is that too much to ask KdjaCL?

To me yes it is, our players are not good enough to be at a major finals and those results prove that.

bottom line thats 5 points dropped if we had those 5 points we wouldnt be worried now. international football isnt something you can fix fix next week, its one off be as good as you are....simple.


kdjac

smemon

another pay out for the FAI if they do sack him, which i suspect they will..

next manager gets one tournament MAX.

Delaney will feel the heat now.. he felt it after the san marino match and used bobby robson as a shield.

I've no doubt every irish fan and every journalist/pundit wants staunton out. Correct me if i'm wrong..


If not, what are we waiting for.. sack him now and start interviewing...

scruff321

you can blame stan but i think he was better then kerr..atleast stan tries to go for games but nevertheless he shouldnt have been appointed for the job and as typical ireland we just cant do it when were expected to especially the away games..cyprus and slovakia ffs these are bad teams!
and as for tonites match alot of heart,pity about going down a goal and the killer in the game came when hunt was sent off that ****e ref has ****ed us over again!and england won just great :mad:

Attractive Nun

KdjaCL wrote:

i dont get this

Do we bring in Guus Hiddink and hope that some nigerian lads or polish kids play for us. What do you expect from the irish players?


kdjac

I really think you're underrating our players... We certainly have a better squad than Wales and Slovakia, and probably a better one than the Czech Republic.

Jesus Wept

DSB wrote:

Anyone who supports an English club yet hates the English national team as a result of years of oppression really needs to reassess their train of thought.

Club teams don't represent a nation, the english team represents the english nation, there is a difference.

KdjaCL

musician wrote:

The Czechs are overrated if you ask me. I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect a decent manager to have taken our squad to Euro 2008 considering the Czechs who are quite simply not what they were and the Slovaks. Of course we don't have a world beating team but we have a decent team that should have done better.

It's too easy to excuse a manager because of the players. I don't blame Stan at all. He took the job. Who wouldn't. But if you take the job then be prepared to answer for your decisions.

I think stan is a muppet too but i dont see another manager capable of getting **** players to play good consistently on one a one off basis.

our problem isnt the manager, its the fact our fans expect more then the players are capable off.


kdjac

RE*AC*TOR

KdjaCL wrote:

No we dont, results have proved that. if we had better players we wouldnt have conceded or not scored.

I know you like the Eircom League, but in the real world of football there's such a thing as tactics, and they make a difference on the outcome of matches.

Running Bing

BaZmO* wrote:

Seriously lads, don't turn this into another IRA, English Clubs, Celtic thread mess like the last one.

Agreed. lets all agree to disagree.


But Ill just point out nobody brought IRA into it or Celtic for that matter. Surely the issue we were discussing has little to do with milliant republicanism or a Scottish football club. But that is for another thread.


Back on topic...Stan is ****e;)

Mr.Nice Guy

KdjaCL wrote:

To me yes it is, our players are not good enough to be at a major finals and those results prove that.

Horsesh*t. These results prove that our MANAGER is not good enough. He's a clown.

DSB

The-Rigger wrote:

Club teams don't represent a nation, the english team represents the english nation, there is a difference.

They do on a regular basis. In the UEFA CUP and the Champions League. Regardless your excuse is poor at best.

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

No we dont, results have proved that. if we had better players we wouldnt have conceded or not scored.

its not rocket science. the manager picks the teamk he doesnt make them play ****. if a professional PL player is asked to play on the other wing he should ****ing be well able to. hes getting 20k a week to play football why the **** should he not be able to kick a ball with his other foot?







kdjac

Thats a very naive view of things.

Are you implying a team of players have never performed below their abilities becuase of bad management?



Plus I think you are generally underrating Irish Players.

Third_Echelon

i'll be cheering for scotland i think... they just beat france 1-0 in paris...

2 wins over france in their group.... thats how we should be doing it.. but we aint

KdjaCL

Attractive Nun wrote:

I really think you're underrating our players... We certainly have a better squad than Wales and Slovakia, and probably a better one than the Czech Republic.

I beleive your over rating our players as they play in the PL.

Kerr was sacked over a result vs Swiss, Cunningham stated afterwards that "the gaffer gave us a game plan but after 5 minutes the players felt they knew better and started hoofing it " Kerr was sacked as the players didnt do what they were told.

Now Stan has a worser pool of players with only the injection of youth and effort to stand by his good results.

How the **** is any manager gonna be better than a quality manager and clueless manager if
1. they assume they better.
2. they are not better.
3 they are not good enough.


kdjac

Collie D

Without defending Stan, I'm just curious as to who could do the job? I have always said to let him have the qualifying campaign to see if things can be turned around. Now, barring a miracle of loaves and fishes proportions, we have failed to qualify. Time to go, Stan. You have showed that you have not learned anything. Such a shame to see a great servant in the green jersey turn into a stubborn, paranoid, poor manager.


Anyway, back to my question. Who could replace him and do a job?

Starting with Irish managers

Martin O'Neill...has made some progress with mediocre teams in the past but doesn't seem the type to put up with the amateur FAI shenanigans.

Roy Keane...great player and amazing first season with Sunderland but reality looks like it's kicking in. Too little experience (albeit more than Staunton had). Plus I don't think the FAI would even dream of offering him the job.

An Eircom League manager...think we all know how high the chance of that is.

So, it looks like a top quality world class manager like we were promised a couple of years ago. Can anybody see the FAI forking out the wages to get a Hiddink/Mourinho/Rijkaard in? No, me neither.

Basically, although Stan obvioulsy hasn't got a clue I can't see his replacement being much better.

_Kaiser_

I thought Dunphy was going to have a heart attack there he laughed so hard when John was asked if we could win the next 3 games.

... he's (Dunphy) is right tho!

okidoki987

Good points from tonight
Dunne and Given (yet again).
Bad points
Reid and McGeady

With 10 men we never had a chance even against a poor team.

Staunton is not a world class manager and never was.
How he got the job in the first place is beyond me.
Let's get it right next time (which hopefully will be soon).

RE*AC*TOR

Houllier.

A Dub in Glasgo

Third_Echelon wrote:

i'll be cheering for scotland i think... they just beat france 1-0 in paris...

So will I

AARRRGH

musician wrote:

I don't blame Stan at all. He took the job. Who wouldn't.

I keep reading this on the forum and it is wrong.

Of course WE, the general public, would love a shot at the job. But a professional like him, someone in the industry, should know better.

For example, I would not take the Marketing Director job in the company I work in, even though it would mean earning three times my salary, simply because I know I could not do it properly. However I'm sure someone in some poor country would love to do it.

madds

KdjaCL wrote:

To me yes it is, our players are not good enough to be at a major finals and those results prove that.

I have to disagree there kdjaCL. We have a number of promising players in this squad at the moment. Are you watching the RTE match analysis at the moment? I couldn't agree more with what is being said by the panelists.

Staunton's lack of managerial experience and naivety at this level (indeed what level has he proven he can manage at?) has held us back in this campaign. Look at the how he interviews for God's sake - how are you going to give your all for someone as cardboard as that? Replacing Staunton will not turn us into a team of world beaters, but at least it will allow the squad to play at the level they deserve to play at and rid us once and for all of the passengers like Kilbane and O'Shea.

PHB

its not rocket science. the manager picks the teamk he doesnt make them play ****. if a professional PL player is asked to play on the other wing he should ****ing be well able to. hes getting 20k a week to play football why the **** should he not be able to kick a ball with his other foot?

Does this mean you can be a good international manager? The way you are talking it seems like all international managers are exactly the same. Are you really suggesting that Staunton hasn't made a ****load of mistakes?

Also, considering man managment is one of the biggest attributes of a manager, I really can't see how you can think that the manager isn't a reason for the problems.

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

Thats a very naive view of things.

Are you implying a team of players have never performed below their abilities becuase of bad management?



Plus I think you are generally underrating Irish Players.

its international football, there is no next week you perform or you dont.

We cannot not perform and get a result, its simple professionalism a level our players have not reached.

We will not get to any finals with these players, and believing that PL playera are the way forward is our main problem. They couldnt give a **** unless they are young.


kdjac

Necronomicon

Wasn't able to watch tonight, with hindsight I'm glad - saves me writing an all-to-familiar post.

Edit: Full time in France. 1-0 to Scotland. The power of having a good manager eh!

mewso

KdjaCL wrote:

our problem isnt the manager, its the fact our fans expect more then the players are capable off.

Some fans expect that but I would imagine most expect a good showing against inferior teams at the very least.

You're right though I can't think of a manager out there that could come in and do the job. Someone above mentioned that at least Stan had a go as opposed to Kerr. I totally disagree. I think both Kerr and Stan were over cautious. I didn't see Stan sending teams out to "go for it". Theres so much pressure on International managers that it seems almost accepted that you should always defend a 1 goal lead. I saw many complaining about this on Saturday but I can't help thinking that an awful lot of managers do go defensive with a 1 goal lead. Is it the pressure to win? Who knows.

The ideal manager would need to be pretty hard skinned. Kilbane has been mentioned a few times here. He has great heart but I genuinely think he should have been out of the squad long ago. If we really want guys running from one end of the pitch to the other with no end result then by all means play 11 Kilbanes. I admire his heart but I can't help feeling that with Kilbane it's a case of quite simply you play him because you just do.
And now heres McEddy as Brady calls him running around looking for his head too. Will be praising his heart in 2 years time depite no end result?

Anyway depressing night all round.

KdjaCL

madds wrote:

I have to disagree there kdjaCL. We have a number of promising players in this squad at the moment. Are you watching the RTE match analysis at the moment? I couldn't agree more with what is being said by the panelists.

.

Promising players...lets make a short list.

Healy plays for Cork
Keane plays for Pats
Stokers plays for a bookie

Does this mean you can be a good international manager? The way you are talking it seems like all international managers are exactly the same. Are you really suggesting that Staunton hasn't made a ****load of mistakes?

ahhh a quality reply....

your are spot on just like a player a manager has to world class, most know their best team and know it well and know that regardless of who is injured who they will play as they scout their players. Stan is a muppet.

But where did he go wrong in playing what are his alleged best players who are playing regularly in the PL.


kdjac

herbieflowers

Depressing alright but maybe we just don't have the quality to compete witht he bigger sides, finishing third and above our seeding for these qualifiers has to count as a success

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

our problem isnt the manager, its the fact our fans expect more then the players are capable off.

Do you really not believe the players we have are capable of beating Cyprus or Slovakia, bearing in mind wales just beat slovakia 5-2?



If that is what you believe I will have to believe it is because of some anti-Premier league bias because no Ireland fan could believe that imo.

Running Bing

herbieflowers wrote:

Depressing alright but maybe we just don't have the quality to compete witht he bigger sides, finishing third and above our seeding for these qualifiers has to count as a success

Where we not third seed?

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herbieflowers wrote:

Depressing alright but maybe we just don't have the quality to compete witht he bigger sides, finishing third and above our seeding for these qualifiers has to count as a success

Ireland will finish fourth.

BaZmO*

KdjaCL wrote:

To me yes it is, our players are not good enough to be at a major finals and those results prove that.

KdjaCL wrote:

its not rocket science. the manager picks the teamk he doesnt make them play ****. if a professional PL player is asked to play on the other wing he should ****ing be well able to. hes getting 20k a week to play football why the **** should he not be able to kick a ball with his other foot?

Well which is it? Do we have the good players or not. Can you not see that the manager is not getting the best out of what he has?

PHB

But when you talk about professionalism, you're talking like it's not changeable. If your players aren't motivated enough, it's your job to drop them or motivate them. In my mind, there's no doubt that if Fergie had been in charge, we'd have qualified for the Euros.

madds

KdjaCL wrote:

Promising players...lets make a short list.

Healy plays for Cork
Keane plays for Pats
Stokers plays for a bookie

Come again?

BaZmO*

Babybing wrote:

But Ill just point out nobody brought IRA into it or Celtic for that matter

They did in the last thread.

herbieflowers

PHB wrote:

But when you talk about professionalism, you're talking like it's not changeable. If your players aren't motivated enough, it's your job to drop them or motivate them. In my mind, there's no doubt that if Fergie had been in charge, we'd have qualified for the Euros.

That may well be true...Scotland beat France home and away, Greece won the last Euros...I think we have the players, it's just a mtter of getting the most out of them

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

Promising players...lets make a short list.

Healy plays for Cork
Keane plays for Pats

Is Keane not 25?


And has'nt he only played once for Pats after being released by Rotherham?:eek: Hardly a promising youth prospect.

Call Me Jimmy

KdjaCL wrote:

We will not get to any finals with these players, and believing that PL playera are the way forward is our main problem. They couldnt give a **** unless they are young.


kdjac

While I agree to a certain extent, I agree that we have an ordinary bunch of players BUT if greece and scotland can do it, then with the right attitude/ management we can AT LEAST get to a finals.

Mr Alan

KdjaCL wrote:

its international football, there is no next week you perform or you dont.

We cannot not perform and get a result, its simple professionalism a level our players have not reached.

We will not get to any finals with these players, and believing that PL playera are the way forward is our main problem. They couldnt give a **** unless they are young.


kdjac

if you are implying that we should pick Eircom league players as opposed to PL players, i really am shocked.

---

Given

---

---

Finnan---Dunne---Mc Shane--O'Shea

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Ireland---Reid

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carsley--hunt----

---

---

doyle----Keane

---

that team is more than good enough to have qualified from this group.

in reality, we should have qualified comfortably from this group. all it would have involved was gettin a result in saturday, tonight and against cyprus, which we should have if we had played the right team with a manager who had a clue. the reason we got no results is because of the manager simple as.

to start suggesting that playing Eircom League players instead of our best players defies belief for me.

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

But when you talk about professionalism, you're talking like it's not changeable. If your players aren't motivated enough, it's your job to drop them or motivate them. In my mind, there's no doubt that if Fergie had been in charge, we'd have qualified for the Euros.

Bollox to that he has proved his international management before.

Do you really not believe the players we have are capable of beating Cyprus or Slovakia, bearing in mind wales just beat slovakia 5-2?

The fact we didnt pretty much proves im right you assume they are **** so any 11 from the PL would beat them obviously not......, bias is irrelevent if i had my way irish schoolboys would play for El teams then go to spain to be complete footballers.

Well which is it? Do we have the good players or not. Can you not see that the manager is not getting the best out of what he has?

there is no next week , the players have to perform in one off games, no manager can change that.


kdjac

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millersangel wrote:

to start suggesting that playing Eircom League players instead of our best players defies belief for me.

No one said that tbh.

Daysha

Scotlands fantastic win just proves how important a manager is in this day and age. They have a weaker squad than us, but with the right manager, passion and commitment they just did the double over the World Cup finalists. Could you imagine a fully fit Ireland squad playing to their absolute potential with a proven, experienced manager? We would've won last Saturday, we would've got something out of today, we wouldn't have lost 5-2 to Cyprus and we would be on the first plane to Austria and Switzerland.

No more BS'n Delaney. Give us a proper set up with a proper manager and restore some pride in the green jersey.

Mikeyt086

LOL.

I was a McGeady fan, infact i would say i still am, but he should not be starting for Ireland. And that is the end of it.

Stephen Hunt is a phenom.

Delaney and Staunton OUT!

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

The fact we didnt pretty much proves im right you assume they are **** so any 11 from the PL would beat them obviously not......, bias is irrelevent if i had my way irish schoolboys would play for El teams then go to spain to be complete footballers.

Pats lost to Longford a couple of weeks back. Are Longford better than Pats?

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

that team is more than good enough to have qualified from this group.

.

Who the **** suggested EL players? the fact you missed was the 3 players i named were all promising at one stage and now play in the EL or in one case is heading there.

We need players that are above the PL.

I wish i assumed the PL was the be and end all of football then i would assume that anyone who played there would be good enough to play international football.


kdjac

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

Pats lost to Longford a couple of weeks back. Are Longford better than Pats?

eh yeah they have won 6 of their 7 games vs teams pats havent beaten

What that got to do with the fact that Irish PL players are not really very good at the international stage?


kdjac

herbieflowers

Is it not more that they don't play well consistently as a team as opposed to being individually inept?