Czech Vs Ireland

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

Who the **** suggested EL players? the fact you missed was the 3 players i named were all promising at one stage and now play in the EL or in one case is heading there.

We need players that are above the PL.

I wish i assumed the PL was the be and end all of football then i would assume that anyone who played there would be good enough to play international football.


kdjac

Does PL stand for Barclays Premier league? If it does I dont understand.

It is a fact that along with the Italian, Spanish and German league the PL is without doubt one of the best leagues in the world.


Now the fact that no Irish players play in Italy, Spain or Germany (or France or Holland for that matter) the PL pretty much is the highest standard we have wether you (or me for that matter I would love nothing more than the irish league to be off higher standard than the barclays PL) like it or not.

Mikeyt086

I think our best team with no injuries is:

---

GIVEN
FINNAN--DUNNE--MCSHANE--O'SHEA

HUNT---A.REID---S.REID---DUFF

---

KEANE

---

DOYLE

Debate over Ireland and Steven Reid. I think Hunt has to start. Long coming off the bench.

That team gets to the last 16 of the World Cup or last 8 of the Euros.

What is the general thought on Steven Reid? Becuase Carlsey cant play football, only tackle. I think S.Reid is a much missed player.

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

eh yeah they have won 6 of their 7 games vs teams pats havent beaten

What that got to do with the fact that Irish PL players are not really very good at the international stage?


kdjac

You said "The fact we didnt [beat Cyprus or Slovakia] pretty much proves im right"(that our team is not good enough to beat them)



Im just pointing out just because a team loses a game of football does not mean they dont have a good enough team to win.

Mr Alan

DesF wrote:

No one said that tbh.

well it was suggested that we shouldnt go with PL players . . . who then?

Call Me Jimmy

One thing I would say in favour of kdjacl's point is this - it's been years since an irish team has been able to string more than 2 passes together. Even though the czechs were pretty crap tonight they were able to move the ball around and hold onto it outside our box and not have a brain freeze every time the ball came near them.

Every game is the same whether we win or lose, we do not pass the ball around. Tonight the reason andy reid didn't do so great was coz he had the burden of being the only one confident enough to pass the ball around and try things with passes. Everyone else was doing the predictable full-back to winger, back to full-back, lose the ball pattern.

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

Now the fact that no Irish players play in Italy, Spain or Germany (or France or Holland for that matter) the PL pretty much is the highest standard we have wether you (or me for that matter I would love nothing more than the irish league to be off higher standard than the barclays PL) like it or not.

And the fact that the PL is not the place for intertnational players is lost on you..... Its simply about playing to your potential on a one off basis with your country mates when needed, coaching managing doesnt come into it, if your good enough your good enough....we sadly are not. Our players play in the PL and prove that they can not do that and not just with Stan.

Honestly what is your point? is the PL populated with players who have international games tonight?


kdjac

galwayrush

DSB wrote:

Anyone who supports an English club yet hates the English national team as a result of years of oppression really needs to reassess their train of thought.

Agree, i have a lot of English friends, they always support us when we're playing.

Mr Alan

KdjaCL wrote:

Who the **** suggested EL players? the fact you missed was the 3 players i named were all promising at one stage and now play in the EL or in one case is heading there.

We need players that are above the PL.

I wish i assumed the PL was the be and end all of football then i would assume that anyone who played there would be good enough to play international football.


kdjac

you suggested the PL wasnt the way to go. . . . wat is then?

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

Im just pointing out just because a team loses a game of football does not mean they dont have a good enough team to win.

Auntie had balls springs to mind at that post.

kdjac

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

you suggested the PL wasnt the way to go. . . . wat is then?

ehh the champions league, i posted that like 4 pages ago.

or failing that players who do their jobs on a once off basis vs class players.




kdjac

Mr Alan

ok then kdjacl, who would be in your starting 11 to play Cyprus (a team we are better than)

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

And the fact that the PL is not the place for intertnational players is lost on you..... Its simply about playing to your potential on a one off basis with your country mates when needed, coaching managing doesnt come into it, if your good enough your good enough....we sadly are not. Our players play in the PL and prove that they can not do that and not just with Stan.

Honestly what is your point? is the PL populated with players who have international games tonight?


kdjac

I dont even know what your saying anymore.


My point is quite clear the Barclays Premier league is the highest level any Irish player plays at so that is where players should be picked from.


Now it is a lovely idea that we get a bunch of lads from down the road at Dalymount or Richmond but if those players where good enough they would be playing in the BPL without a second thought.

KdjaCL

Babybing wrote:

I dont even know what your saying anymore.


My point is quite clear the Barclays Premier league is the highest level any Irish player plays at so that is where players should be picked from.


Now it is a lovely idea that we get a bunch of lads from down the road at Dalymount or Richmond but if those players where good enough they would be playing in the BPL without a second thought.

Sweet god, finally you see the problem or part of it, as you speak of the EL i shall have to speak of the PL in your personal version of it.

Robbie Keane did you see anything tonight or actually ever from him with ireland where he looked good actually damn good, i mean good enough to be spurs fans player of the year...... im gonna guess no simply as he is **** with ireland mainly due to the fact he doesnt get enough of the ball in time and space, something afforded to him in the super brilliant PL. Now why is that?

ok then kdjacl, who would be in your starting 11 to play Cyprus (a team we are better than)

We are not better then them, 5 ****ing 2 suggested they are far superior than us.


kdjac

joe123

KdjaCL I just cannot see what you line of thinking is....basically are you saying an international team doesnt need a manager?

How can you say we dont have players good enough to qualify??? If scotland can do it of course we can. If wales can beat slovakia 5-2....

Dont be ridiculous. Seriously.

Our players are good enough to get us into the european champs and world cup.


Staunton out.And hopefully Delaney will go the same route.

Pighead

KdjaCL wrote:

We are not better then them, 5 ****ing 2 suggested they are far superior than us.


kdjac

:eek: I'm amazed at your logic in this thread and have come to the conclusion that somebody has hijacked your account. Ireland are obviously a better team than Cyprus and if the two teams played 10 times Ireland would win the majority of them.

By your simplistic logic Scotland are better than France, Aston Villa are better than Chelsea and Man City are better than Man United. You're beter than this KdjaCL.

Mr Alan

the result in a one off game does not mean one team is better than another.

are liverpool better than barca?
scotland better than france?
northern ireland better than spain?
man city better than Utd?

smemon

WTF?

Why are people saying who can replace Stan? Anyone can replace Stan..

Just because there's no jose mourinho's unemployed doesn't mean we stick with Stan until a decent manager comes along.

Change is needed. Bottom line. Any change. Keep changing until we get it right.. name of the game.

O Neill would be a favourite of mine.. what he did at celtic, with average players, was the sort of thing only great managers can do..

European Cup finals, league domination, a swashbuckling style of play always with heart... the man is a legend and you just have to ask any leicester or celtic fan to find out what a genius he is..

Villa lack cash, they're never going to challenge the big boys and 7th/8th spot is the best they can hope for.. O'Neill certainly has them 'safe' from the drop, unlike the guys before him..

He's the man for the job imo but he'll never take it as he's only settling down with Villa.

KdjaCL

joe123 wrote:

KdjaCL I just cannot see what you line of thinking is....basically are you saying an international team doesnt need a manager?

How can you say we dont have players good enough to qualify??? If scotland can do it of course we can. If wales can beat slovakia 5-2....

Dont be ridiculous. Seriously.

Our players are good enough to get us into the european champs and world cup.


Staunton out.And hopefully Delaney will go the same route.

No our players are not if they were those results wouldnt have happened, its that ****ing simple you get one game at internatinal level and you have to win it, we didnt regardless of manager we have PL player playing and they didnt d their jobs.

Stan is a muppet but as proved by Kerr and mC Carthy you can send out pro footballers and they will still lose because they are not good enough.


The main problem si the fans belief that we are better than we are.

Based on the fact Big jack hoofed us to a few major things.........Now we have to play ball to get to them and oh look.......we not going anymore.



kdjac

Attractive Nun

KdjaCL wrote:

I wish i assumed the PL was the be and end all of football then i would assume that anyone who played there would be good enough to play international football.

I'm certainly not assuming that the PL is the be all and end all of football, but the fact is that practically every Irish footballer plays in the PL or the EL, with a spattering in the Scottish League. The fact also happens to be that our best players almost all play in the PL. This alone does not, of course, make these players good enough - but neither does it make them bad players!

Look at our current crop of players compared to those that competed in the 2002 World Cup, got through to the last 16 only to go out to Spain on penalties...

2002 vs 2007

Given vs Given [The 2002 Given might have been slightly better]
Finnan vs Finnan [The 2007 Finnan is a good bit better]
Harte vs O'Shea [Harte might shade it because of his free kicks]
Staunton/Breen vs Dunne/McShane [2007 is probably better]
Holland/Kinsella vs Ireland/Carsely [Again, 2007 is probably better]
Kelly/Kilbane vs Hunt/Kilbane [About equal?]
Duff/Keane vs Doyle/Keane [On form, I'll give it to 2002]

At the very least, they're about equal. That's not to mention the likes of Damien Duff, Stephen Reid, Andy Reid, Aidan McGeady and some of our younger players coming through. If we can perform like we did in a World Cup with that squad, why can't we at least qualify for a European Championships with this one?

Granted, sometimes players just aren't on form or just aren't bothered and there's not a lot a manager can do about that. But I think our players were trying. And most of them are in reasonable form for their clubs. I would agree that we don't have a world class squad by any stretch of the imagination, but surely we have one of the top 16 squads in Europe and therefore (pretty much) one of the top 32 in the world. This will be the third tournament we have failed to qualify for. Unless I am indeed overrating our squad, the management or the FAI must be doing something wrong.

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

the result in a one off game does not mean one team is better than another.

in international football yes it does, we not going to Euros because of those results.... honestly how can you defend the players when that fact is placed upon you.

We didnt beat Cyprus or Slovakia, why the **** do we suddenly deserve to go? they were in our group on the same merit as us?

****in elitism in irish fans, priceless.


kdjac

DSB

smemon wrote:

Villa lack cash

Oh totally yeah.

Mr Alan

KdjaCL wrote:

in international football yes it does, we not going to Euros because of those results.... honestly how can you defend the players when that fact is placed upon you.

We didnt beat Cyprus or Slovakia, why the **** do we suddenly deserve to go? they were in our group on the same merit as us?

****in elitism in irish fans, priceless.


kdjac

are scotland a better team than france?
northern ireland than spain?

honestly

Fighting Irish

KdjaCL wrote:

No our players are not if they were those results wouldnt have happened, its that ****ing simple you get one game at internatinal level and you have to win it, we didnt regardless of manager we have PL player playing and they didnt d their jobs.

Stan is a muppet but as proved by Kerr and mC Carthy you can send out pro footballers and they will still lose because they are not good enough.


The main problem si the fans belief that we are better than we are.

Based on the fact Big jack hoofed us to a few major things.........Now we have to play ball to get to them and oh look.......we not going anymore.



kdjac

.

RE*AC*TOR

I no longer have to take anything Kdjac says at all seriously.

I knew that whole Eircom League thing was only a big cod.

Good one Kdjac, I finally get the joke.

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

are scotland a better team than france?
northern ireland than spain?

honestly

jesus this just doesnt sink in, according to you we have better players than both those teams but couldnt beat Slo or Cyp........

if you were right about players being better and stuff we would have won those games, but we didnt simply because we were not good enough!!!


Cyprus scored 5 ****ing goals and you ask me if we are better then scotland who conceded 0 away to france, honestly WTF |!!!! seriously WTF!!!


kdjac

KdjaCL

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

I no longer have to take anything Kdjac says at all seriously.

I knew that whole Eircom League thing was only a big cod.

Good one Kdjac, I finally get the joke.

Somehow i am wrong in my point our players are not good enough theory regardless of manager?

Oh please prove me wrong.



kdjac

Pighead

KdjaCL wrote:

jesus this just doesnt sink in, according to you we have better players than both those teams but couldnt beat Slo or Cyp........

if you were right about players being better being better and stuff we would have won those games, but we didnt simply because we were not good enough!!!


Cyprus scored 5 ****ing goals and you ask me if we are better then scotland who conceded 0 away to france, honestly WTF |!!!! seriously WTF!!!


kdjac

Cyprus beat Ireland so Cyprus are better than Ireland is your ridiculous argument. Its a one off fcuking game. If Cyprus had beaten Ireland 6 times out of 7 then yes they would be better but it was a once off. Stop being so bloody simplistic.

mewso

Pighead wrote:

Cyprus beat Ireland so Cyprus are better than Ireland is your ridiculous argument. Its a one off fcuking game. If Cyprus had beaten Ireland 6 times out of 7 then yes they would be better but it was a once off. Stop being so bloody simplistic.

I think the point is that you have one chance to beat them. You don't beat then tough you weren't good enough. Problem is I actually like to look back at games and ask why we didn't beat them. Not point blank assume it was simply because they weren't good enough players. But I suspect argueing with kdjaCL here is just going to go round in circles.

Call Me Jimmy

Pighead wrote:

Cyprus beat Ireland so Cyprus are better than Ireland is your ridiculous argument.

And even though it wouldn't usually need to be pointed out, cyprus have never finished abover ireland in a group and are below us in the group now.

Mr Alan

KdjaCL wrote:

jesus this just doesnt sink in, according to you we have better players than both those teams but couldnt beat Slo or Cyp........

if you were right about players being better and stuff we would have won those games, but we didnt simply because we were not good enough!!!


Cyprus scored 5 ****ing goals and you ask me if we are better then scotland who conceded 0 away to france, honestly WTF |!!!! seriously WTF!!!


kdjac

seriously man, are you after taking acid or something? want me to call an ambulance?

wat the **** are you talking about???

i didnt ask are we better than scotland.

i asked are scotland better than france or are northern ireland better than spain, because using your logic, they are. and i just dont genuinely think someone who knows anything about football could say that

KdjaCL

Pighead wrote:

Cyprus beat Ireland so Cyprus are better than Ireland is your ridiculous argument. Its a one off fcuking game. If Cyprus had beaten Ireland 6 times out of 7 then yes they would be better but it was a once off. Stop being so bloody simplistic.

SWEET MOTHERFCCKING LOVE OF GOD !!!!

INTER-FCUKING_NATIONAL FOOTBALL IS A ONE OFF GAME!!!!


We are not good enough for that its far above the PL level and ****ing miles above the EL level.

Jesus its the soccer forum how the **** is that hard to understand.


kdjac

mewso

If I send out 11 30 year amateur league players v 11 8 year olds and by some bizarre turn of events the 8 year olds win the game. I won't turn around and decide to bring the 8 year olds on tour. I might just ask where it went wrong.

KdjaCL

musician wrote:

I think the point is that you have one chance to beat them. You don't beat then tough you weren't good enough. Problem is I actually like to look back at games and ask why we didn't beat them. Not point blank assume it was simply because they weren't good enough players. But I suspect argueing with kdjaCL here is just going to go round in circles.

jesus one kinda sees the point, we didnt win as we were not good enough, we had PL players on the pitch but still not good enough as a team......


Seriously why is this hard to understand

kdjac

mewso

KdjaCL wrote:

jesus one kinda sees the point, we didnt win as we were not good enough, we had PL players on the pitch but still not good enough as a team......


Seriously why is this hard to understand

kdjac

Yes on the night not good enough. Forgive me as a fan for asking why when I believe they should have been.

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

seriously man, are you after taking acid or something? want me to call an ambulance?

wat the **** are you talking about???

i didnt ask are we better than scotland.

i asked are scotland better than france or are northern ireland better than spain, because using your logic, they are. and i just dont genuinely think someone who knows anything about football could say that

And yet the logic is lost on you, did scotland perform as a team and beat france away..... does that make them better.... did you have to ask.

PL vs international is a different game, something that is lost on you and others.

kdjac

herbieflowers

But surely a team of PL players ought to beat the likes of Cyprus and Slovakia? I think what disappoints Irish fans is that there is potential for a decent side but it's just been thrown away practically every time that team plays

Mikeyt086

KdjaCL wrote:

Somehow i am wrong in my point our players are not good enough theory regardless of manager?

Oh please prove me wrong.



kdjac

Players not good enough?

Given - GOOD ENOUGH!!!
Kelly - NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!
Dunne - GOOD ENOUGH!!!
McShane - Good Enough.
O'Shea - good enough
McGeady - Not good enough.
Carsley - Not good enough.
A.Reid - Good enough.
Kilbane - Good enough.
Keane - GOOD ENOUGH
Doyle - GOOD ENOUGH

Subs:
Hunt - GOOD ENOUGH
Long - GOOG ENOUGH

Injured players:
Duff - GOOD ENOUGH
S.Reid - GOOD ENOUGH
Ireland - GOOD ENOUGH

KdjaCL

herbieflowers wrote:

But surely a team of PL players ought to beat the likes of Cyprus and Slovakia? I think what disappoints Irish fans is that there is potential for a decent side but it's just been thrown away practically every time that team plays

but they didnt as Cyprus were a better TEAM


sob sob sob ....why are irish people so dumb


kdjac

madds

KdjaCL wrote:

Somehow i am wrong in my point our players are not good enough theory regardless of manager?
Oh please prove me wrong.

Case 1 - Sunderland last season in Championship. With Niall Quinn as manager, Sunderland lose their opening 5 games and are firmly rooted to the bottom of the table. Enter Roy Keane. Promoted as Champions by the end of the season.

Is that enough proof for you that a quality manager can have a positive effect on a team's belief and performance?

Jeez.

KdjaCL

Mikeyt086 wrote:

Players not good enough?

Given - GOOD ENOUGH!!!
Kelly - NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!
Dunne - GOOD ENOUGH!!!
McShane - Good Enough.
O'Shea - good enough
McGeady - Not good enough.
Carsley - Not good enough.
A.Reid - Good enough.
Kilbane - Good enough.
Keane - GOOD ENOUGH
Doyle - GOOD ENOUGH

Subs:
Hunt - GOOD ENOUGH
Long - GOOG ENOUGH

Injured players:
Duff - GOOD ENOUGH
S.Reid - GOOD ENOUGH
Ireland - GOOD ENOUGH

Good enough for what? None are going to the Euros and none went to the last world cup, what is your point they are good enough for what ? Playing PL football?


kdjac

RE*AC*TOR

KdjaCL wrote:

Somehow i am wrong in my point our players are not good enough theory regardless of manager?

Oh please prove me wrong.



kdjac

You are just talking bollox that's all. Absolute utter bollox. You are either just in the mood for a good trolling session or you know obscenely little about football.

Pighead

KdjaCL wrote:

SWEET MOTHERFCCKING LOVE OF GOD !!!!

INTER-FCUKING_NATIONAL FOOTBALL IS A ONE OFF GAME!!!!


We are not good enough for that its far above the PL level and ****ing miles above the EL level.

Jesus its the soccer forum how the **** is that hard to understand.


kdjac

Count to 10 KdjaCL, you're not yourself tonight and you're spouting nonsense. Its a fcuking league Ireland are in.

At the end of the league the best 2 teams go through. At the moment Ireland are 3rd, ahead of Cyprus who you say are beter than us. Ireland still have to play Cyprus at home and will most probably beat them. The table shall then show Ireland are a better team than Cyprus. Whats so hard to understand?

KdjaCL

madds wrote:

Case 1 - Sunderland last season in Championship. With Niall Quinn as manager, Sunderland lose their opening 5 games and are firmly rooted to the bottom of the table. Enter Roy Keane. Promoted as Champions by the end of the season.

Is that enough proof for you that a quality manager can have a positive effect on a team's belief and performance?

Jeez.

And where do you think they will finish in the mighty PL with all their irish players?



kdjac

LuckyLloyd

lolz at the way this thread has gone. The Eircom league is a significantly lower standard of football than the English Premiership. Simple. KdjaCL's convoluted arguments won't change that.

As for tonight's match. I am annoyed. But I cannot say I am surprised.

Pighead

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

You are just talking bollox that's all. Absolute utter bollox. You are either just in the mood for a good trolling session or you know obscenely little about football.

Well somebody had to say it.

shatners basoon

KdjaCL wrote:

SWEET MOTHERFCCKING LOVE OF GOD !!!!

INTER-FCUKING_NATIONAL FOOTBALL IS A ONE OFF GAME!!!!


We are not good enough for that its far above the PL level and ****ing miles above the EL level.

Jesus its the soccer forum how the **** is that hard to understand.


kdjac

Its not a one off game, its a bloody group. On our day Ireland can compete however on average we've not been good enough. Thats all there is to say about it. Stan's tactics have been poor but unless you've got a great coach its not going to make that much of a difference as its still a group of players meeting up with too little time to usually implement these tactics (though the competitions themselves generally give more time for this)
As Herbie said Ireland do have a decent side, seeing them play without confidence (against Cyprus, San Marino, a lot of the Slovakia match and the first 30 minutes today) is painful when we're aware that they're capable of better. Its not whether they're good enough as we know when we do see them play that if they do it right that they can. They're not good enough to do it consistently enough to be a top team but we still should be able to play better than throughout (most of) the last year.

KdjaCL

Pighead wrote:

Count to 10 KdjaCL, you're not yourself tonight and you're spouting nonsense. Its a fcuking league Ireland are in.

At the end of the league the best 2 teams go through. At the moment Ireland are 3rd, ahead of Cyprus who you say are beter than us. Ireland still have to play Cyprus at home and will most probably beat them. The table shall then show Ireland are a better team than Cyprus. Whats so hard to understand?

the fact we are not going to the euros because they beat us 5 ****ing 2?
that would be the main thing.

You are just talking bollox that's all. Absolute utter bollox. You are either just in the mood for a good trolling session or you know obscenely little about football.

ahh reactor little input but lots of opinion.

Again please prove me wrong on this little opinion of mine.

our players are not good enough to to got to Euros*
*we lost to cyprus
* we drew with slovakia

Seriously i await your insightful info on the above statement, as i am sure your knowledge on the above opinion is stunning.


kdjac

KdjaCL

LuckyLloyd wrote:

As for tonight's match. I am annoyed. But I cannot say I am surprised.

Would you say OMFG we were not good enough to beat them!!!


please dont as you you will appear to be an EL fan and then your ****ed.


kdjac

KdjaCL

shatners basoon wrote:

On our day .

Sadly that day is not the same day our international fixtures are on



kdjac

madds

KdjaCL wrote:

And where do you think they will finish in the mighty PL with all their irish players?
kdjac

You can't even keep to the point here now - this is getting laughable. And you had the goddamn cheek to close a thread I started earlier this evening by saying, and I quote from the PM response you sent me, "it was a stupid thread anyway"?

Then I come in here and see the crap you're spouting? Oh I forgot, attack the post not the poster....power trip.