Communication with 3 about firewalling

Terrontress

Good afternoon,

I am a 3 customer who has purchased the X-series Gold add on at a
price of €20 per month. This add on brings with it "Unlimited
Broadband".

It appears that our ideas of unlimited must differ as there are
certain websites which I cannot access. I can understand why you might
restrict access to adult websites, even though they are not illegal.
But to have the same block on a website such as tinytube.net is
unacceptable.

I do not frequently visit adult websites so your decision to restrict
access does not affect me although I feel I should have the right to
choose.

Please can you provide a list of all restricted sites and provide the
reason for this restriction.

Yours faithfully,

---

Dear Michael,

Thank you for inquiring about the X-series Gold add-on. I’m responding to you in writing as per our telephone conversation.

I’d like to inform you that X-series gold brings you unlimited internet, unlimited skype and up to 100 hours of home TV and music. The sites that you can access are Google search, Yahoo! Search, Pod casting, Mobile Mail, Skype Calling, Sling Media, Orb and of course Windows Live Messenger which costs € 19.99 per month. Watching home TV requires a Sling Box, which would cost € 199 from 3.

We do restrict access to adult websites however regarding the site you were trying to access which is (www.tinytube.net) provides search and video proxy services for mobile devices. It enables search and video playback from several major video sharing services by optimizing web pages for smaller displays and reformatting video clips.

“Nearly all phones that have video support will be able to use their built-in phone applications to view videos downloaded from Tiny Tube. Phones that support RTSP protocol can also serve video with virtually no delay. If you are having trouble viewing downloaded videos, try playback using the TCPMP media player, it's excellent. If you're not sure if your phone supports RTSP streams, check the specifications at PhoneScoop.com. All video content available through the Tiny Tube service is proxied from another site -- no content is hosted by Tiny Tube.”

This information is quoted from the above mentioned website accessed from the computer.

I hope this answers your queries. For any further queries , please do not hesitate to call our Customer Services by dialing 333 from your 3 phone (free of charge) or 083 333 3333 from any other phone (charged at applicable mobile rates).


Regards,

Deborah Falcao
3 Customer Services.

---

Deborah,

thank you for your prompt response.

Firstly, can I point out that you told me categorically that 3 do not restrict access to ANY site and now you have written to say that 3 do restrict access to adult sites. While I can agree with restricting access to pornography, there are many sites restricted, such as that for FHM magazine ( www.fhm.com) which cannot be viewed as offensive under any reasonable circumstances. This is all the more surprising, given that 3UK actively sell pornography through your Planet 3 services.

In relation to tinytube, I am aware of how the site operates. My issue is that it would appear that the site is blocked using the same process as is used to block access to adult sites. This has only happened since I changed to X-Series Gold from mobile broadband and I believe it is one step of censorship too far.

I would appreciate if you could look into this for me. There is already growing dissatisfaction amongst 3 users, given your restriction of sites which use high bandwidth and your decision to be moral guardians of your customers.

I would like to know what your opinion on the above is and what you intend to do to change this. I am feeling my only options are quickly becoming either contacting Comreg or cancelling my 3 contract altogether!

Bluefrog

I still think the only way we are going to see action on this is if we hit them as an organised group.

In your dealings with them you should also mention port blocking and also ask what is the purpose for the age verification if they're going to be our nannies and tell us which sites we can visit.

Bluefrog

Me to them:
RE: A/C No. XXX & Bill No. XXX

Hi,

I am nothing short of furious to see that I am to be charged for my forced switch between unlimited broadband and X-Series during the month of August though given a credit on my unlimited broadband addon. This is truly the last straw.

Neither the unlimited broadband addon or the X-Series addon worked as advertised for the majority of the month or indeed are working now. I had sporadic and very short lived access to any service that did not run on port 80, and on several occasions of which I received no notice, I had no service whatsoever on any port. I spent innumerable hours chasing down people in technical support for answers and was told a plethora of what basically amounted to lies about the state of the service ranging from 'you are the only one having difficulties' when a visit to boards.ie made it quite apparent that I wasn't, to 'these issues will be resolved in 24 hours' when there was no basis to give me such information. I was sent out a replacement SIM to solve the issues when it was obvious that they were network based and there was on problem with the original SIM card. To add insult to injury, the original SIM card was disabled before the new one arrived leaving me with no mobile phone service for over a day!

I only requested the switch to X-Series as a last resort having gotten nowhere with customer service or support over a period of 2 weeks and at least 6 separate half hour long phone calls since the so called 'upgrade' of August 9th.

In my opinion, at this point Three should be paying me as it seems my custom is being used for network testing purposes while your technical team who seem nothing short of incompetent wrestle with their configurations.

Now let me make it clear. Should this charge of €19.00 not be refunded to me in my next bill I will take legal action. Furthermore, should I be charged for the X-Series addon next month with continuing access problems to services running on ports other than 80 I will take legal action.

It is my intention to take Three Ireland to the small claims court where I will be seeking the maximum award for lack of service and time lost, and I am also hereby committing to lodge official complaints with COMREG and the advertising standards authority. The purpose of these actions is not to escape from my contract. The purpose is to force Three to provide the services I enjoyed before August 9th and I intend to settle for nothing less.

While I know that COMREG does not regulate broadband directly which may have been an out for Three in relation to it's USB broadband customers, they do regulate mobile phone services. It will be my contention that Three obtained my custom for their phone service under false pretences - i.e. undertaking that they would provide an 'unlimited' data addon which obviously they have totally failed to do in the past month. I believe it is a matter COMREG must pursue and it is my firm intention to compel them to do so.

For documentation purposes I am publishing this letter publicly on boards.ie. It is also my intention to forward a copy to the NCA.

Finally, I expect all future correspondence between Three Ireland and myself on this matter to be in writing. No phone calls from India will be entertained.


Kind regards,


Them to me:

Dear Joe

I am sorry to hear about the issues that you have faced with Mobile broadband service. I am responding via an email as per your request.

Please accept my apologies for the delay in response and for the inconvenience caused due to this ongoing issue. We were facing temporary issues with our mobile broadband service and hence we have upgraded our network. Currently, our mobile broadband service is up and running. The X-Series is currently compatible with Nokia N73 and Nokia E65.

We need to speak to you in order to discuss this matter further. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to share account details due to the security reasons of the account. I would request you to have your email address registered on the account, so that we can process your future requests via an email. I assure you that once we speak to you we will be able to resolve this issue.

We’d like to be able to sort out any issues that you’ve had. For further assistance, please feel free to call our customer service on 333 from a 3 phone (free of charge) or 083 333 3333 (charged at applicable mobile rates).


Regards,

Harish Venugopal
3 Customer Services

and me to them - sigh:

Hi,

The delay in your response was not unexpected as despite Three's previous assertions, I am well aware I am not the only customer who has contacted you in relation to these issues.

As stated in my previous mail, under no circumstances will I enter into any oral communication with Three as I feel that legal action is inevitable at this stage and I intend to use my documented correspondence to pursue this. Also I have basically been told enough lies and misinformation and have had enough of my time wasted.

As I am publishing this correspondence on boards.ie and am thereby placing it in the public domain I obviously have no problem with my account details being public.

As for the issues with mobile broadband being solved, in no way is that even approaching true. Three have activated port blocking without notice to me, basically changing the service and thus voiding our contract. Now many of the services I was able to use such as network aware java applications no longer work. In what sense Three can claim that their service is 'unlimited' is beyond me and I'm sure will be a mystery to the ASA too.

In addition, certain sites such as tinytube.net are no longer accessible and I resent having my access censored.

Furthermore, the registration process for Orb is impossible to complete as a UK phone number is required to complete it.

So as far as I am concerned, nothing has changed since my last mail and your latest correspondence seems purely intended to stall for time. Be my guest - it will just make Three look even worse when I commence my legal proceedings.

Kind regards,




CCing <snip> on all of this at [email]<snip>[/email] - she's their head of communications

Bluefrog

Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience caused due to the ongoing issue. I’m responding to you in writing as per your request.

I can imagine your frustration as you do not wish to communicate with us over the phone. I would once again request you to call us and have your email address registered on the account for security purposes, so that we can discuss your account queries via an email.

In regards to the Tiny Tube website (www.tinytube.net) that you are unable to access “Nearly all phones that have video support will be able to use their built-in phone applications to view videos downloaded from Tiny Tube. Phones that support RTSP protocol can also serve video with virtually no delay. All video content available through the Tiny Tube service is proxied from another site -- no content is hosted by Tiny Tube. If you would like to make a video available here, you need to upload it to one of the supported upstream sites. Likewise, if you identify copyright-infringing material here report to the upstream site as the proxying process is fully automated.” This information is quoted from the above mentioned website accessed from the computer.

We would need to speak to you regarding your concerns you’ve been facing so that we can have it resolved. Please do not hesitate to call our Customer Services on 333 from a 3 phone (free of charge) or 083 333 3333 (charged at applicable mobile rates).


Regards,

Deborah Falcao
3 Customer Services.


and my response:

Hi Deborah

Thank you for your apologies but apologies are not what I am seeking. I am seeking the service that Three Ireland undertook to provide.

' I would once again request you to call us and have your email address registered on the account for security purposes, so that we can discuss your account queries via an email.'

No, in my first email I gave you my account and billing numbers. As far as I am concerned that should suffice in 'registering' my email address. Three always have the option to contact me by letter if they feel somehow that they can not discuss things via email. In all my dealings with Three I have used the same address and it is only now that I have insisted on written communication that this seems to be an issue.

' In regards to the Tiny Tube website (www.tinytube.net) that you are unable to access “Nearly all phones that have video support will be able to use their built-in phone applications to view videos downloaded from Tiny Tube. Phones that support RTSP protocol can also serve video with virtually no delay. All video content available through the Tiny Tube service is proxied from another site -- no content is hosted by Tiny Tube. If you would like to make a video available here, you need to upload it to one of the supported upstream sites. Likewise, if you identify copyright-infringing material here report to the upstream site as the proxying process is fully automated.” This information is quoted from the above mentioned website accessed from the computer.'

Deborah, with all due respect I can read the contents of a website as well as you. If you had taken the time to bother reading my email you would know that I do not wish to post video to this site but merely to stream content from it. I can not. In addition all rtsp streams from all other sources I can find time out after a 2 to 3 minute interval.

Your email fails to mention anything about the unannounced and unwarranted port blocking which prevents third party applications running on the X-Series or 'Unlimited' broadband service (I refer you to this thread for confirmation that I am not the only one having these issues - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055142078). By Three's own definition of X-Series, "what’s free to use on the internet should be free to use on mobile broadband". This translates to me as I should be able to use any third party application I wish as long as I do not contravene your fair usage policy - a policy I have never actually seen incidentally.

Neither does your email address the issue of Irish X-Series Gold customers being unable to register for Orb as a UK phone number is required.

So it seems we have once again gotten nowhere. I would remind you that should any charge be levied on my account for broadband addon services I will dispute them legally and will continue to do so until the port restrictions are removed and the streaming issues resolved.

Once again I will be publishing your response at boards.ie and will be relying on it for any future legal proceedings.

Kind regards,

Bluefrog

Three are insisting that before they can solve my issues they need to speak to me. This is despite the fact that I am not the only one with these issues and they would appear to be systemic and not related to my single account. Speaking to me must have some powerful magical effect on the network - if I had but known when I became a web developer I would have opted for network admin instead - sigh.

As you can see from the above correspondence I have repeatedly told them I will only deal with them now in writing. They then countered by insisting I had to call them to 'register' my email address with them to proceed that way despite my having made at least 3 complaints to their online facility (still not working correctly by the way) with the exact same email address.

Yet this evening they still attempted to call me. I told the lady from India in a very polite manner that I would not discuss the matter except in writing and that since they had called me I guess it confirms the email address.

This may be a possible strategy for other customers.

BuffyBot

Any chance you can NOT use those colours? Just because the work fine on your skin, it doesn't mean they're particularily easy on the eye for others.

Bluefrog

Hi,

I read with interest and not a little anger a piece on techcentral.ie about X-Series in Ireland at http://www.techcentral.ie/small_business/3_skype_mobiles/view.

As an X-Series Gold customer I can tell you that I and a number of other customers I have been corresponding with on boards.ie are extremely disappointed with the service.

Having attempted to deal with your customer services representatives in India for the past month without success I am now trying one last time to communicate with Three about these issues before I seek the intervention of third parties. Incidentally, the complaints form on your site gives the impression when submitted that something has gone wrong as one is presented with a 'Page Not Found' message after submission and this situation has persisted since early August despite I and others having brought it to the attention of Three Ireland on numerous occaissions.

In what sense can you make the claim that X-Series or indeed Three Ireland's 'Unlimited' broadband addon provide unlimited access? As I intend to post this correspondence on boards.ie and also send a copy to COMREG I am sure there will be great interest in your response.

Why exactly have third party applications which don't use port 80 been blocked recently and with no notice to existing customers. Is it a cynical move by Three to improve the experience for the very vocal USB modem customers by freeing up extra bandwidth at the expense of mobile broadband addon phone customers? This may be a harsh assessment but what else are customers supposed to think when Three are still actively advertising the USB broadband service on TV knowing that this service still faces huge issues in the area of SMTP, FTP, VPN etc.

The Irish X-Series Orb registration process requires a UK phone number and is therefore unusable by Irish customers as it stands. Even if I could actually register with Orb I would not be optimistic about my chances of being able to use it as every RTSP stream I have connected to seems to drop after a period of 2 to 3 minutes rendering it essentially unusable.

The Skype client which is in fact a rather crippled relation of it's PC cousin doesn't support text messaging and only seems to work in 3G areas. However, a third party application called Fring which integrates a Skype client supports text messaging and can work for voice even over GPRS. I have been in touch with Skype to express my disappointment with the quality of the service they are associating themselves with in their partnership with Three Ireland.

The MSN client also seems to be crippled in terms of the functionality if offers in comparison to the official Microsoft Symbian client with a very reduced feature set. It too only appears to work in 3G areas while once again, Fring would allow access even over GPRS. Since Three have recently blocked Fring that is obviously not an option.

What seems to have emerged from my own investigations is that those on higher data tariffs with Three Ireland have actually less access. How do you explain this?

Is it Three Ireland intention to cripple the services so much that they know customers could never even vaguely approach the limits set in your 'fair usage' policy - a policy I for one have never actually seen.

In addition your customer support staff in India seem ill equipped to provide any more than platitudes when called about service issues.

I would refer you to the following threads on boards.ie which I hope you will find an enlightening read.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055147970

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055142078

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055148669

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055115306

By Three's own definition of X-Series:

"what’s free to use on the internet should be free to use on mobile broadband (subject to fair usage and international roaming conditions, of course)."

Fring is free, the official MSN Symbian client is free, many other third party applications are free. Many RTSP streams are free.


I look forward to your response which I will expect in writing.


Kind regards,

Bluefrog

Thank you for your email. Robert asked me to look into this for you and I will address the points you make in your email.

Reference: Third-party applications that use port 80

These have not been blocked, we are investigating why applications you mention may not be working.

Reference: X-Series Orb registration process and UK phone number

This is being addressed. In the interim, our support staff are aware of this and will activate Orb on behalf of the customer in the meantime.

Reference: RTSP stream

This is not something we are aware, we are however investigating following your complaint

Reference: Skype client

The current client supports Skype to Skype calling and we are looking to Skype messaging in the next release of software towards the end of the year. Skype is a service available on 3's 3G network.

Reference: MSN

MSN is available on 3's 3G network, regarding the functionality we are looking to work with a new partner to bring even more features to MSN users.

Reference: unlimited data

We have packages designed to ensure that users have unlimited access to the x-series services, of course with any service like this a fair usage limit applies to prevent abuse or fraud and this is accessible via three.ie and the x-series website.

I hope this answers your questions, if you wish to discuss further please don't hesitate to get in touch with me

Best regards
Rachel

To which I replied:

Hi Rachel,

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.

While your promised investigations of the issues I have raised are reassuring mainly because they come from you personally, I am concerned that Three seem to unaware of the port blocking issue in particular. However, I do see signs that things are improving, for instance my ports seem to be open and unrestricted now but judging from various posts on boards.ie it would seem that I am one of the fortunate ones.

On the port blocking issue which I regard as the most serious problem there still seems to be a lot of people with issues there. I understand the requirement for these services to have a 'fair usage policy' or what more realistically might be called a usage cap but surely given that data usuage is monitored, those who transgress in this area can be controlled.

I strongly feel that given that your customers at present for the data products would be of a more technical inclination in general, some communication with them via forums such as boards.ie or an official blog on the website would go a long way to show that Three were willing to work with them to meet the challenges of this relatively new technology.

I would also suggest that the quality of technical support on the data side falls way short of fixed line providers at present. It is virtually impossible to get to speak to someone with any technical expertise and often, even when you do, the logic of their troubleshooting is seriously flawed. Meanwhile customer services seem to only have a loose knowledge of the current state of the network here. If there is any doubt on this then I suggest yourself or Robert try to use this service yourself for evaluation.
You may argue that for the price Three are charging that that is not a realistic option to expect great quality there. However, I believe that there is scope there for Three to increase pricing if the support mechanisms improve in a corresponding fashion. A customer asking for price increases - what next!

As I said when I started this correspondence with Three, I am delighted that you have entered the market here; already we see the other networks being forced to respond to the challenge and I do look forward to being in a position to be an evangelist for Three here again soon.

Thank you again personally for your help.

Kind regards,