Discrimination

BehindTheScenes

This is a slightly political question but I am curious of opinion from a legal perspective. Yesterday I had the bright idea of joining the orange order and was refused. The reason given for the refusal is that my charachter is unsuitable for the order.

Would the argument that it was because I am a Roman Catholic be accepted in the courts? Keep in mind that that the reason for refusal is vague but none the less states that I am of unsuitable charachter. Also not everyone might realise that the order strictly discriminates against Roman Catholics. Would developing this argument from that viewpoint add any substance to it?

If it was to go to court would it pass through the Irish courts staright to Europe?

Finally, is this discrimination in the Republic of Ireland tolerated due to a lack of legislation?

BehindTheScenes

Sorry lads could you delete this and leave the other one. Thanks:)

johnnyskeleton

Edited as per last comment

Rhonda9000

I am confused by the question(s) and the implied expectation of legislative or judicial protections and intervention with regard to voluntary groups? But anyway...

In Irish law, a club (unincorporated association) is defined as "a voluntary association of persons combined for purposes other than carrying on business ... A club often has no legal persona." The members are bound together by identifiable rules and having an identifiable membership.

A club can be discriminating or non-discriminating under the Equal Status Act 2000. A club is considered discriminating if -among other things- it has any rule, policy or practice which discriminates against a member or an applicant for membership. Refusing membership is a clear example of this.

The district court can be called upon to make a determination as to whether or not a voluntary association is a discriminating club (if someone has not done so already). This is the extent of any possible satisfaction; a declaration saying e.g. the Orange Order is a discriminating club.

It is important to keep in mind that equality legislation is there to erradicate more pressing injustices within important contexts such as employment and provision of goods and services. Voluntary associations are obviously well outside this.

If you're really desperate to join, why not pretend As for seeking judicial help .... see above. Let's hope the Neo Nazi's aren't forced to accept Jews

Cantab.

I've found the best way of politely telling someone to go away is to let them apply, get them to wait a long time (so long that they start making enquiries), tell them the new members meeting is "in 6 months' time", and if they are still around by then, tell them their application "was somehow lost". They usually get the message by then.

Mind you after Portmarnock Golf Club, there's no need anymore!

RE: The Orange Order and Catholics - are Catholics allowed to join the Orange Order? You'd want to contact your PP to ask him if your soul would be in danger! I know Catholics are specifically disallowed from joining organisations such as the Freemasons.

Tom Young

Cross post from the other thread started in error by OP:´

Yesterday, 00:43 #4
Tom Young
Registered User



Join Date: May 2005
Location: Front of Airplane
Posts: 322
Adverts | Social Interesting judgement on this is O'Higgins J. in Equality Authority v. Portmarnock Golf Club. http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2005/H235.html


Quote:
For the reasons I have set out the plaintiffs' constitutional arguments cannot prevail. I do not accept that the right of association can only be circumscribed by considerations of "public order and morality". In my view there is no warrant in the case law for his contention that the "membership decision" (as it has been called) is subject to different criteria to the activities of a club with regard to what may be subject matter of legislation. Furthermore, I do not accept the submission that the constitutional right of freedom of association is to be taken in the isolated fashion contended for by the golf club. Moreover the submissions of the golf club on Article 40.1 of the Constitution do not preclude t he enactment of legislation to achieve equality.

The opinion of the High Court is sought in the case stated as to whether the District Court was correct in law in making the determination that the Club was a discriminating Club and in imposing the consequential order. It follows from the findings of this Court that the answer to the question is in the negative.

In the other proceedings the plaintiff is entitled to a declaration that by reason of the provisions of s. 9 of the Equal Status Act, 2000 the Club shall not be considered a discriminating Club for the purposes of s. 8 of the Equal Status Act, 2000.

Cantab good job, totally correct.

Our man in Havana

Cantab. wrote:

I've found the best way of politely telling someone to go away is to let them apply, get them to wait a long time (so long that they start making enquiries), tell them the new members meeting is "in 6 months' time", and if they are still around by then, tell them their application "was somehow lost". They usually get the message by then.

The Gardaí adopt a very similar approach if they don't want to give someone a gun licence.