Car Free Day not be taken seriously

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

But you need to drive your car because?

Because... my house is 1 mile from plaoise train station. My new workplace is in celbridge.

I Have to drive to KILDARE to get the train in the morning (irony, it comes from plaoise, oh and it gets shunted aside because the tossers are determined that intercity, not commuters get priority). The reason: i would have to wait 1 and half hours to get a train from celbridge to plaoise in the evening but can het a train from celnridge to Kildare

Complete bunch of f*ckwits. 1 billion euros down the tubes.

Terry wrote:

What are the rest of you doing to resolve the situation, besides moaning about it on an internet forum?
You do all realise that TD's are public servants and, as such, they answer to us.

Go and talk to your local TD and ask them what they are going to do about the state of public transport in this country. Go to them all. Tell them that if it is not improved by the next election, that you and your friends/ family will not be voting for them. Watch them move once it looks like their meal ticket is about to be revoked.

I was part of a rail group Terry. In one meeting with the managers one of them stated. If the train service in the UK is good enough for them its good enough for us.
They are unnacountable, we have approached TDs and they have got nowhere.
I actually have a report from 1998 commissioned by mary orourke and that states that the focus is incorrect. That commuter traffic should be prioritised not intercity.
It also stated that managers at 70s mentality and could be encouraged to leave.
what do we have now... sub standard commuter and an intercity service

Look at the miniCTC overspend, its the only time you see a manager in irish rail budge as they crawled up there own arses to get away from the commitee.

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

Because... my house is 1 mile from plaoise train station. My new workplace is in celbridge.

I Have to drive to KILDARE to get the train in the morning (irony, it comes from plaoise, oh and it gets shunted aside because the tossers are determined that intercity, not commuters get priority). The reason: i would have to wait 1 and half hours to get a train from celbridge to plaoise in the evening but can het a train from celnridge to Kildare

Complete bunch of f*ckwits. 1 billion euros down the tubes.

and how would you driving from laois to cellbridge affect a dublin city centre car free day or a car free day in any major irish city?

where such events would be planned

faceman

i did Terry. (albeit i fall into the category of grumpy old man at this stage) The only party who gave a decent response (and they answered my questions on the health crisis very well too) was labour. So they got my vote.

FF didnt respond. FG's response didnt really answer my question.

I didnt contact the Greens.

Rob_l

Terry wrote:

What are the rest of you doing to resolve the situation, besides moaning about it on an internet forum?
You do all realise that TD's are public servants and, as such, they answer to us.

Go and talk to your local TD and ask them what they are going to do about the state of public transport in this country. Go to them all. Tell them that if it is not improved by the next election, that you and your friends/ family will not be voting for them. Watch them move once it looks like their meal ticket is about to be revoked.

or even get together and run a candidate on the single issue you most feel aggrieved with in the next council, general elections

Doctor DooM

Rob_l wrote:

There is very much a mindset of people that they need their car, need is a very strong word to use for anything that is as non essential as a car.

How many people in dublin dont travel by car everyday how do they survive surely they have the same needs as every other person residing in dublin?

Or perhaps people who do not own, travel by car everyday are lesser mortals who do not have the same needs as the other more important people who do.

If I dont have my car I spend over 4 hours on public transport a day. Once again, this is a trip that is 20 mins in a car, because citywests infrastructure is so poor.

I need my car in order to maintain a life.

Still, reducing cars on the road? If I could I would be the first.

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

and how would you driving from laois to cellbridge affect a dublin city centre car free day or a car free day in any major irish city?

where such events would be planned

It was my understanding that it would be intended for any urban area and was a general call.

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

It was my understanding that it would be intended for any urban area and was a general call.

no I dont think so and dont believe that is the way other euro states do it either

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

no I dont think so and dont believe that is the way other euro states do it either

LOl..so the carbon footprint of a 50 mile round trip due to a poor public transport infrastructure is lessened because its not dublin?

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

LOl..so the carbon footprint of a 50 mile round trip due to a poor public transport infrastructure is lessened because its not dublin?

how many are there of you?

how many people make the journey from the same area as I live(It takes no more than 30 minutes for me only public transport) to the city centre in a car 1 2 3 or mutltiples of hundreds i would say the latter


every step taken is one more travelled in the right direction.

humanji

Rob_l wrote:

are you asking how is lessening carbon emmission suppossed to help?

car free day does not mean people cannot use their cars it means that certain areas of the city centre become off limits to cars!


It can be done it other european cities and I see no reason why a well planned operation here could not be feasable.

But you need to drive your car because?

The idea of the Car Free days is to get people to find alternative means of travel in the eventual hope that it will catch on and fewer cars will be on the road. With a bad public transpot system, people don't have a choice but to use cars, and so it doesn't stand a chance in hell of working.

Slow Motion

Terry wrote:

What are the rest of you doing to resolve the situation, besides moaning about it on an internet forum?
You do all realise that TD's are public servants and, as such, they answer to us.

Go and talk to your local TD and ask them what they are going to do about the state of public transport in this country. Go to them all. Tell them that if it is not improved by the next election, that you and your friends/ family will not be voting for them. Watch them move once it looks like their meal ticket is about to be revoked.

The internet was made for moaning ! Didn't you get the memo ? And yes I do talk to the local TDs about this and other issues, I actually know Carey ! I didn't vote them in, but unfortunately the majority of maturing SSIA who cares I got my money voters did and I have to live with that ! Yes I moan about it on the internet, but I don't restrict my dissatisfaction to this medium only !

Rob_l

humanji wrote:

The idea of the Car Free days is to get people to find alternative means of travel in the eventual hope that it will catch on and fewer cars will be on the road. With a bad public transpot system, people don't have a choice but to use cars, and so it doesn't stand a chance in hell of working.

Indeed it is friend so surely then somewhere like the city centre of the major city in a nation would be the ideal place to start encouraging people to use alternative means of transportother than use their private vehicles capable of carrying on average four poeple but on average only ever acctually filled with one.

humanji

Again, I say the transport system is inadequate and needs to be sorted out before you can get people to stop using their cars.

Rob_l

humanji wrote:

Again, I say the transport system is inadequate and needs to be sorted out before you can get people to stop using their cars.

you will never get people to stop using their cars that does not mean they need them

just like you will never get all the fat people thin

or ever get world peace

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

how many are there of you?

how many people make the journey from the same area as I live(It takes no more than 30 minutes for me only public transport) to the city centre in a car 1 2 3 or mutltiples of hundreds i would say the latter


every step taken is one more travelled in the right direction.

I am sorry but what are you saying?

Is it piece together the message or a zen koan?

Edit: in fact looking at your posts are you just spouting rehetoric or unconnected sentences. They are meaningless

or are you suggesting in your last sentence we walk?

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

I am sorry but what are you saying?

Is it piece together the message or a zen koan?

or are you suggesting in your last sentence we walk?

Im saying that an attitude of nothign works lets do nothing but also lets not make what doesn't work any better either is stupidity in action.

Im saying that everything that happens happens from a first action everything that has ever been done begins with a first step a first action someone somewhere doing something, but all the people who drive cars attitudes is I cant do anything else but drive which is bullcrap.

Every car journey every day is not essential people use cars for pointless non essential things every day. If car drivers cant see that then they are even more stupid than I took humans to be capable of.

From the morning school run dropping their little darlings to school the equivalent of ten minutes walk in a car.

the drive to the shop to pick up your paper or your 15 mars bars perhaps a five minute walk or little johnny wanst to go to his friends ten minute walk
all done in cars all day and those are just three examples I can think of hundreds of potential scenarios.

Car free day is about for one day saying no or maybe even saying to yourself
"ya know why im so fat and unhealthy maybe its because i haven't used the legs god gace me to move myself in so long"

humanji

Rob_l wrote:

you will never get people to stop using their cars that does not mean they need them

But the idea of the car free day is to show an alternative. And if the alternative is viable, and cost effective, then people will go for it.

Rob_l wrote:

or ever get world peace

Well, when all life is wiped out by carbon monoxide poisoning, then the world will be pretty peacefull

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

Im saying that an attitude of nothign works lets do nothing but also lets not make what doesn't work any better either is stupidity in action.

Im saying that everything that happens happens from a first action everything that has ever been done begins with a first step a first action someone somewhere doing something, but all the people who drive cars attitudes is I cant do anything else but drive which is bullcrap.

Every car journey every day is not essential people use cars for pointless non essential things every day. If car drivers cant see that then they are even more stupid than I took humans to be capable of.

From the morning school run dropping their little darlings to school the equivalent of ten minutes walk in a car.

the drive to the shop to pick up your paper or your 15 mars bars perhaps a five minute walk or little johnny wanst to go to his friends ten minute walk
all done in cars all day and those are just three examples I can think of hundreds of potential scenarios.

Car free day is about for one day saying no or maybe even saying to yourself
"ya know why im so fat and unhealthy maybe its because i haven't used the legs god gace me to move myself in so long"

Right, and this has got to do with your questions to my posts what exactly? If you read them i stated that we formed a group to get the train service improved and that it did no good and no i dont want to drive a round trip of 50 miles, but neither am ai going to sit in a wide open space for 1 1/2 hours in all weathers waiting for a train.

Your not a green party member are you? all high minded ideas with no particular reality to attach them to?
I have had enough dealings with them through work to know that fantasy and reality is a very fluid concept in their oxygen starved imaginations.

layke

Greens ffs.

I drive to customer sites with tools, PC's server etc. Good luck fitting that onto a push bike. Now that tree hugger want's to close off routes that help me do my job just because I don't take his suggestion seriously. Everyday is national <insert some reason here> why should I bother with this one.

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

Right, and this has got to do with your questions to my posts what exactly? If you read them i stated that we formed a group to get the train service improved and that it did no good and no i dont want to drive a round trip of 50 miles, but neither am ai going to sit in a wide open space for 1 1/2 hours in all weathers waiting for a train.

Your not a green party member are you? all high minded ideas with no particular reality to attach them to?
I have had enough dealings with them through work to know that fantasy and reality is a very fluid concept in their oxygen starved imaginations.

I am not a member of the green party not that, that would in anyway make my views any less valid.

Marksie I have already fully accepted your fifty mile trip is not one covered by the idea of a car free day.
However you cannot argue on this issue personally you must accept the percentage of people in a similiar situation to you is very small so your situation has very little bearing on a car free day.

Can you accept that as a basis for further dissscusion of the issue

Marksie

Rob_l wrote:

Marksie I have already fully accepted your fifty mile trip is not one covered by the idea of a car free day.

Did you? Could you quote it please, i must have missed the statement

Rob_l wrote:

However you cannot argue on this issue personally you must accept the percentage of people in a similiar situation to you is very small so your situation has very little bearing on a car free day..

This is your quote from a previous post "how many are there of you?

how many people make the journey from the same area as I live(It takes no more than 30 minutes for me only public transport) to the city centre in a car 1 2 3 or mutltiples of hundreds i would say the latter

every step taken is one more travelled in the right direction."

Which is directed at me personally yes?
Is what you have said now in your last post what you were trying to say then?

Rob_l wrote:

Can you accept that as a basis for further dissscusion of the issue

I can when i dont take half my time deciphering what you are trying to say lol.

Simply put my argument:

Get an integrated public transport system first.

To do so the current incompetent and unnaccountable managers need to be replaced.

gurramok

Car Free day?

They can start by opening up that port tunnel paid by taxpayers to cars at fair prices, that'll free up a huge chunk of city centre traffic.

seamus

Rob_l wrote:

Every car journey every day is not essential people use cars for pointless non essential things every day. If car drivers cant see that then they are even more stupid than I took humans to be capable of.

Well, that's a whole other debate again. Of course people will use their cars for non-essential things. With the exception of the necessary journeys, cars can be a luxury item for getting things done quicker, for carrying more items and for making your life easier than if you took public transport.
That's choice, which is pretty much fundamental to the free(ish) society in which we live. The problem exists when everyone chooses to use their car at the same time, or everyone is forced to use their car at the same time. In the former case, we need to provide a better choice. In the latter case, we need to provide any choice.

Forcing the issue will not make it stick. How about we had a national "Speak French for a day", day? You think anyone would speak French afterwards?

Car free day is about for one day saying no or maybe even saying to yourself
"ya know why im so fat and unhealthy maybe its because i haven't used the legs god gace me to move myself in so long"

Fantastic. Then *show* people the better choice. Don't try to impose it.

Giblet

The day this will work is the day we have a metro which services most major areas and has close connections to the luas, transfer stops are right beside each other and one ticket will work for all of them within a specific time period. When that time comes, people won't be using their cars anyway. When I was in Portugal, I was amazed how easy it was to get around, and how much quicker it was to go anywhere you wanted in the city.

chopperbyrne

koneko wrote:

QFT, and even within Dublin the public transport is poor IMO

In comparison to the Metro in Paris, but not to the rest of the country.

Dublin Bus is a pretty damn good service. As are the DART and LUAS.

Slow Motion

Giblet wrote:

The day this will work is the day we have a metro which services most major areas and has close connections to the luas, transfer stops are right beside each other and one ticket will work for all of them within a specific time period. When that time comes, people won't be using their cars anyway. When I was in Portugal, I was amazed how easy it was to get around, and how much quicker it was to go anywhere you wanted in the city.

QFT ! Try the Metro in Madrid ! Five minutes figuring out the map after that the city's your oyster ! And a ticket costs €1 to go anywhere ! We can only dream !

Giblet

chopperbyrne wrote:

In comparison to the Metro in Paris, but not to the rest of the country.

Dublin Bus is a pretty damn good service. As are the DART and LUAS.

Or the Metro in Porto which has around the same population. Or in Lisbon. Or any major city in Europe that can compare to our economic wealth.

Rob_l

Marksie wrote:

Simply put my argument:

Get an integrated public transport system first.

Get the cars off the road first:rolleyes:

Rob_l

seamus wrote:

Fantastic. Then *show* people the better choice. Don't try to impose it.

Exactly Seamus Nail on head perhaps why they want one day were the city is car free to show the possibilities.

But you need your car that day I suppose!

seamus

Having a car-free city, is not showing people a better choice. It's showing people a car-free city. The better choice needs to exist before we can get there.

Incidentally, if this is on a weekday I'll be cycling into work as usual. It won't affect me in the slightest.

mickoneill30

Stay in your cars people.

I already have to walk 1 mile back along my bus route passing several bus stops because by the time the bus gets to the stop beside my house it's packed and won't stop. Then this overflowing bus is not allowed to use the port tunnel because all of the people on it want to get into the city as quick as possible. Instead we get the pleasure of taking a scenic journey along the old airport road or Ballymun.

If you leave your car at home in Swords the buses don't have the capacity to take you on.

I understand that leaving the cars at home benefits everyone but we don't see big empty buses going into the city at peak times. They're already packed. People are already using them. Give us more. Are they going to put on more buses for car free day?

dtwhaler

Rob_l wrote:

From the morning school run dropping their little darlings to school the equivalent of ten minutes walk in a car.

QUOTE]

If you get me a pavement or a footpath I'd walk them to school in rain, hail sleet or snow. I am not going to risk a five year old and a seven year old walking along the side of a ditch on the N52 with cars and 40ft lorries flying past doing more than double the 50 km/h speed limit ! I hate having to drive to a school that I can see from an upstairs window but it just isnt safe. I spoke to the local TD who said it was in the long term plans but nothing has been done ......

the_syco

bushy... wrote:

Should introduce park&ride instead of annoying everyone.

Oh, you mean like Luas? Like were you get charged €4 for parking the car, and another €4 for using the Luas?

I'm using the train and bus to get to my work. It takes 1hour 30 minutes, to 1 hour 50 minutes, each way. No bother, though. Once I get a car, it'll only be a 40 minute car journey:cool:

On another note, i wonder how many people are forced to use a car to get from Leixlip/Maynooth/Celbridge to get to Citywest? Only 15-30 minutes by car, but 2 or 3 hours by public transport...

Car free day? Sorry, but maybe when we get decent transport. Untill then, no.

biko

Everyone living within city limits should be forced to bike it everywhere inside the city (me included).

Sinfonia

To be fair, if he wants it to be taken as seriously as in the rest of Europe, he should realise that our public transport system is a joke compared to most European countries/cities.

(sorry if anyone already said this, the thread's really long)

astrofool

I think everyone has said it, public transport in this country is useless.

More railways, more trams, wider roads with QBC's are needed desperately in this country. Every debacle like Tara and Carrickmines puts us further behind the rest of the world with public transport. We should have the 4-5 Luas lines planned and being built to every corner of the city, then start connecting them at the outer regions (circle lines) rather than have everyone go to the city centre.

Also, Park and rides where the cost of the parking is your ticket for the day, put a few managed multi story car parks are Dart stations and Luas stations, clamp and remove cars that remain > 48 hours. I'd love to use the Luas to get to town, but, it's €4 for parking, and €4 each for the return ticket, and it only goes to one side of town so you're facing a long walk with your items to get back. It's cheaper to pay the petrol and car park costs.

I end up having to drive to pick my wife up from the dart because the bus service from town in the evenings can take up to an hour to get to the bus stop, and then have to face a journey through small roads. I have to drive to work myself because Sandyford Industrial estate doesn't have any service from where I'm living (along the N11 before Loughlinstown).