No Speaky de Engrish ?

PHB

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

Rb

Depends on the circumstance

I'm unhappy as is that my tax money pays to house them in our prisons, pay their welfare etc.
Now my taxes should go to pay for classes for these ignorant f*cks who enter an English speaking country without a word of the language, so they can work here for a while, send the money out of the country and then (the majority) leave once it dries up?
No, f*ck the lot of them, English tests at the Port and those who fail get a rubber dingy and a paddle, and a tow out far enough so that they can't tell which direction the country is in. (I don't want my taxes going towards their flight/boat trip home).
The M50 remains incomplete, there's a shortage in schools for our kids, overcrowded classes etc and various other problems that our taxes would be better suited for.
I'm sure this post comes across as ignorant and possibly racist, but I actually didn't have a problem with imigrants in this country until I worked with Poles for a few months, and listened to them complain about our weather, the city and how "sh1t" the country is overall (according to them), disobeying the "Only English to be spoken in work" rule and having conversations amongst themselves in Polish when other Irish co-workers were around, so that they couldn't understand them, and keeping to themselves.
Let them come here, speak English unless in private, work and integrate into society, or get them the f*ck out of here because after so much segregation in this country in the past, we don't need more of it as we go into the future.

Karl Hungus

Depends on the circumstance

PHB wrote:

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

"Understanding" immigrants does not mean "Bend over backwards to fill every need of" no matter what kind of spin you put on it.

stcatherine

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

PHB wrote:

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

I emigrated with my family to the UK, did my ma and dad sign on the dole over there and insist on a council house ? no they didn't, they worked their asses off to provide for their children, and if we didn't already speak the language I guarantee we would have had to learn it.

The problem is not with the immigrants who come here willing to work, pay taxes and learn the language so they can integrate into our society, it's with those that think it's their god given right to get every handout the state will give them so they can go off and spend it on 20 ducks which they will then insist on slaughtering in the back yard of their council house because it's their bloody custom !!

Market undersupplies english language classes. This has broader effects on society as it slows integration. ICI asks government to correct this market failure. The article doesn't mention free classes. Government action to correct market failures is pretty standard.

Did anyone read the article?

Irish_Nomad

rb_ie wrote:

I'm sure this post comes across as ignorant and possibly racist,

At least we agree on one thing.

I think state-assisted language classes would be a good idea. I've lived in several countries and private language classes tend to be expensive. Denmark is the only place I know where free language classes are available to foreign residents.

A large number of immigrants here are working in low paying jobs and probably sending money home to their families so paying for language classes would be out of the question for many. You say you want them to integrate but you don't want to help them to do it. That doesn't seem like a very logical position.

And just to comment on some of the other points you made :

1. There's a very good chance those "ignorant f*cks" already speak more languages than you do. Just because English isn't one of them is no reason to insult them.

2. You complain that they speak Polish amongst themselves. Come on. Do you imagine that a group of Irish lads working abroad would chat to each other in German or Polish or whatever ? Should we be banned from speaking English in public when we go away ?

3. They keep to themselves. After reading your post I don't blame them one little bit.

randylonghorn

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

Deleted User wrote:

Market undersupplies english language classes. This has broader effects on society as it slows integration. ICI asks government to correct this market failure. The article doesn't mention free classes. Government action to correct market failures is pretty standard.

Did anyone read the article?

Finally! I was getting more and more frustrated as I read down the thread ... delighted to see someone actually followed the damn link and read the thing!

Also ... I remember reading an article in the local paper in Gran Canaria last year, complaining because there were whole sections of the island where the majority of workers and residents were English or Irish, with most of them not speaking more than 10 words of Spanish and not having any interest in learning, either, because "enough people speak English, so we don't have to". I know other areas of Spain in particular where this is equally true.

On the other side of the coin, I know a Polish guy and a Lithuanian girl who came here within the last few years, who had some English coming, who have worked hard (and paid taxes) since they arrived, who made the effort in their own time to improve their English, and who have now started doing a part-time degree programme in the evening, which they pay full fees for in the exact same way as Irish part-time adult students.

My point? ... that it's not as clear-cut as some posters above would imply, that immigrants (economic or otherwise) come in all shapes and sizes, metaphorically speaking ... that yes, there are some chancers, who tend to be very visible; that there are others who come for a year or two to make some money (and probably to improve their English, in the same way that many young Irish people choose to work abroad for a while and improve their French, German, etc.); that there are others who plan to make a life here and work damn hard to improve their lot, and by doing so contribute to the economy and to civil society; and every shade in between.

And for the record, I do agree that economic migrants coming to Ireland should have at least some basic English before they come here, and I wouldn't argue that they should be provided with free classes at the taxpayer's expense. I would however argue that the government should take some responsibility, through the education system, for improving the availability of such classes, and for ensuring that they are affordable to those who are prepared to invest the time, energy, and yes, money, to improve their language skills and their employability. In the long run, such an approach would be to everyone's benefit.

The guy

watna wrote:

I actually saw a really funny video where a chinese guy wants to come to Ireland so looks up the language we speak here and sees its irish, so he learns Irish and when he comes here nobody can understand him, until he talks to a bloke on the pub in Irish and he sends him to the Gaeltacht. it was really funny but I can't find the linky! Anway, on-topic again... i think it's the own person's responsibility to have a working knowledge of the language they speak in the country they are emigrating too. i wouldn't expect another country to give me free lessons in their language.

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I missed someone's post.

But I think it's called Yu ming is ainm dom.

randylonghorn

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

The guy wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I missed someone's post.

But I think it's called Yu ming is ainm dom.

Expect an exasperated Rozabeez (and her dog) to be on your trail within minutes ...!

Exit

Great post, randylonghorn!

Rb

Depends on the circumstance

Irish_Nomad wrote:

I think state-assisted language classes would be a good idea. I've lived in several countries and private language classes tend to be expensive. Denmark is the only place I know where free language classes are available to foreign residents.

So, explain exactly why, in your opinion, our hard earned taxes should go on educating people in a language that when coming to this country, they should know, when we've a sh1t health system, a transport system that needs upgrading, finishing etc, an education system where parents have to camp outside schools in order to get their application in, and where their kids may or may not get into the school, etc. Why should our money go on something they should have when deciding to come to this country? We have refugees here, who'll without doubt want to avail of these classes should they be put in place, refugees who apparently think Ireland is the "closest safe country" to seek refuge in, despite it being one of the further "safe countrys" from their own home, why should we pay for these chancers to learn a language that they should have coming to this country?

Irish_Nomad wrote:

A large number of immigrants here are working in low paying jobs and probably sending money home to their families so paying for language classes would be out of the question for many. You say you want them to integrate but you don't want to help them to do it. That doesn't seem like a very logical position.

The minimum wage is not low in comparison to the countries they come from, they chose to come to one of the most expensive cities in Europe, if they don't like it then they can GTFO. It's not our problem, they decided to come here, they can deal with the consequences, be it dealing with a language barrier due to them being so stupid as to not having learnt some of the language before coming here, or the high prices involved in staying here.

The Polish, being Europeans have every right to be here, but its THEIR CHOICE and with that choice, it is up to THEM to deal with the consequences. If they come here with f*ck all English, it's not OUR problem they can't get a job because employers want people with a minimum of basic English, it is THEIR problem and THEY can deal with it, not the Irish Government bending over to facilitate the f*cking morons.

Irish_Nomad wrote:

And just to comment on some of the other points you made :

1. There's a very good chance those "ignorant f*cks" already speak more languages than you do. Just because English isn't one of them is no reason to insult them.

Who cares if they speak more languages than I do?Let them f*ck off to a country where they can converse in the language if they can't speak ours. It's pure ignorance to come here without a basic grasp of the English language, particularly if they have other languages which they could put to use in other countries.

Irish_Nomad wrote:

2. You complain that they speak Polish amongst themselves. Come on. Do you imagine that a group of Irish lads working abroad would chat to each other in German or Polish or whatever ? Should we be banned from speaking English in public when we go away ?

Where I was working, it was strictly English whilst working for security reasons, yet they felt they were above the rules and spoke Polish to eachother, despite knowing that it was strictly against company policy. The people in question had perfect English, and spoke Polish amongst themselves when suited, going from Polish to English to Polish to English etc. It was extremely rude, and certainly not a trait that had them as liked characters in the workplace. They only spoke Polish when they were saying something they didn't want us hearing.
Pure ignorance, completely rude, complained about the country yet we welcomed them with open arms.

Irish_Nomad wrote:

3. They keep to themselves. After reading your post I don't blame them one little bit.

Actually, generally people were quite friendly amongst eachother in this instance, however the foreign staff sat amongst themselves on breaks/lunches, spoke Polish and when it came to nights out, they came alright but still didn't bother socialising with the other, non-Polish staff.

I'm not racist, it's not the race of the people that annoys me, it's their attitude. They can be African, Polish, French, whatever, if they act like f*cking arseholes then they deserve to be labelled so (the individual, not the race)

DonJose

Depends on the circumstance

Another point to make is that immigrants can apply for Irish Citizenship after living for 3 years. That bothers me more.

Karl Hungus

Depends on the circumstance

stcatherine wrote:

The problem is not with the immigrants who come here willing to work, pay taxes and learn the language so they can integrate into our society, it's with those that think it's their god given right to get every handout the state will give them

I disagree completely.

I think the problem is with the people in the "Immigrant Council of Ireland" who are proposing this kind of idiocy in the first place.

Irish_Nomad

So you have a problem with foreigners if they don't speak the language and you have a problem with them if they do. No, doesn't sound racist at all.

And forgive me for laughing at this one - "we welcomed them with open arms". This from someone who in 2 posts has called them "ignorant f*cks", "f*cking morons", and "f*cking arseholes". Talk about self-delusion.

There are several reasons why we should help foreign residents learn English. I thought facilitating integration was important but I mentioned that before and you have ignored it. Another reason is that it will reduce other costs. For example, imagine a foreigner is involved in a serious assault (either as assailant or as victim). His interaction with the Gardai and courts will be much more time-consuming and expensive for the state if that person cannot communicate in English especially with the need to find and pay for a qualified translator. The same applies to a lesser degree in other areas such as health, education, and taxation.

By the way I'd be fascinated to hear how you know "They only spoke Polish when they were saying something they didn't want us hearing". Did you have a spy in their camp or did you tape them and get a tame Pole to translate for you later ? Or could it just be paranoia ?

Karl Hungus

Depends on the circumstance

Irish_Nomad wrote:

And forgive me for laughing at this one - "we welcomed them with open arms". This from someone who in 2 posts has called them "ignorant f*cks", "f*cking morons", and "f*cking arseholes". Talk about self-delusion.

Anyone who comes into a country without knowing the primary language is an ignorant moron. Possibly with F words for effect.

A lot of people come here with enough English to get them by, assuming that with additional language classes and immersion they can become fluent. Not everyone is capable of perfecting their language skills in isolation from others speaking that language. If these classes aren't available, people won’t be won’t be able to integrate as well as they could have. The market hasn’t provided the socially efficient outcome, thus there is a role for government.

Of course there is a difference between use and abuse but I don't see the problem with people making the most of their entitlements. Does anyone here make a moral stand and purposely pay more tax than necessary? If you lived abroad would you deny yourself any benefits that were offered to you by whatever state you were living in? The blame, if there is any, should lay with those who design the entitlement system.

The argument that people contribute nothing to a country because they send remittances home is complete bollocks.

Karl Hungus

Karl Hungus wrote:

Anyone who comes into a country without knowing the primary language is an ignorant moron. Possibly with F words for effect.

I went on a college exchange and worked abroad without speaking any of the native languages when I left, by your defintion I guess I am an ignorant moron.

I figured that by attending some language classes and living in that country I could pick up enough to get me by. That turned out to be the case. Apparently that would not be the case in Ireland as there is a lack of English classes.

My job and exchange were mostly through English. That said, there are certain jobs (e.g. construction, cleaning), where only the most basic language skills are needed. As folks' english advances they can move up the career ladder and integrate more fully into Irish society. This is a long term process.

Karl Hungus

Depends on the circumstance

Deleted User wrote:

I went on a college exchange and worked abroad without speaking any of the native languages when I left, by your defintion I guess I am an ignorant moron.

Well, now that you mention it.

challengemaster

Depends on the circumstance

randylonghorn wrote:

Expect an exasperated Rozabeez (and her dog) to be on your trail within minutes ...!

only on his/her trail? fecking lot of them were on my damn nuts!

Talliesin

Slow Motion wrote:

So the immigrant council of Ireland want to introduce english classes for immigrants coming here ! Should we spend our (and possibly their) taxes on this ? Or should they have read the smallprint before coming here and learned how to communicate in the major language of this country ! If you were going to work abroad in a non-english speaking country would you expect that state to teach you the language ?

In English we don't put spaces before exclamation and question marks. Maybe you should emigrate to another English-speaking country and their tax-payers will help you out.

_Kaiser_

Depends on the circumstance

It's so refreshing to see an (AH) thread on this topic that ISN'T a PC love fest.

These people are coming here by choice. It's therefore their responsibility to suitably equip themselves to survive and (positively) contribute to our society, one of the fundamentals being the ability to speak the language used in the country.

Think about it.. how many times have you gone into a burger joint (for example) and been met with a blank stare when you place your order? Or spent 10 minutes trying to spell your name for the guy in that Indian call centre you got put through to (interestingly, unlike many of the Irish, the UK seems to have had enough of this - hence ads promoting "UK only call centres" on TV etc).

As far as rb's points go, it's not just the Polish that stick to themselves and speak their own language in Irish company. I worked for a large IT multinational and they ALL (Spanish, Italian, French, German etc) do it, and you're right, it's pure ignorance. It doesn't encourage integration, and ultimately leads to the "Us vs Them" attitude so prominent in the ghetto's of other countries which in turn presents a whole other set of problems!

This isn't racism. If someone wants to come to this country and make a better life for themselves and contribute to our society and economy then by all means, but it's not our responsibility to pay for their language classes, social welfare, accomodation etc.

I'm sure Ireland is seen as a "soft touch" and we are, because we (as a nation) are so terrified of being accused of being racist that we're being exploited at the expense of our own indigenous population. The argument that we "owe" it to these people because the Irish went all over the world in the past doesn't wash either. The Irish went to work, built the UK and US, and as Karl pointed out, were often treated like sh*t in their new home countries. Citizenship wasn't just given away either - another thing we should learn from.

As I've said many times before, charity begins at home and we certainly have more than enough problems in this country without taking on everyone else's as well.

Karl Hungus

Karl Hungus wrote:

Well, now that you mention it.

I see what you did there.

Clever

RoyalMarine

Depends on the circumstance

Kaiser2000 wrote:

As I've said many times before, charity begins at home and we certainly have more than enough problems in this country without taking on everyone else's as well.

well said. i went to thailand for a year. did i get free thai lessons? NO.
if we went to poland would we get free polish lessons? NO.

Irish_Nomad

Karl Hungus wrote:

Anyone who comes into a country without knowing the primary language is an ignorant moron. Possibly with F words for effect.

I've done it 4 times. I didn't have an option to spend months learning the language beforehand. We Irish are just very fortunate that when we go abroad we can generally communicate through English. I find it hilarious that many people here are so demanding about language skills when as a nation our grasp of foreign languages lags well behind other European countries.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

As far as rb's points go, it's not just the Polish that stick to themselves and speak their own language in Irish company. I worked for a large IT multinational and they ALL (Spanish, Italian, French, German etc) do it, and you're right, it's pure ignorance.

That is not ignorance. It is a perfectly normal phenomenon for people in a foreign country. When you want to relax it is much easier to do so if you can speak your own language, with people that share common cultural reference points, support the same/rival football teams, understand your jokes without them having to be explained, etc. Every nationality that I have come across behaves this way. While you will sometimes meet people that immerse themselves in the local culture they are the exceptions.

Your own observations should have made you realise this. As you mention they all behave that way. The fact that you conclude they are all ignorant just suggests that you are predisposed to think ill of them.

thefinalstage

Irish_Nomad wrote:

I've done it 4 times. I didn't have an option to spend months learning the language beforehand. We Irish are just very fortunate that when we go abroad we can generally communicate through English. I find it hilarious that many people here are so demanding about language skills when as a nation our grasp of foreign languages lags well behind other European countries.

Our grasp of foreign languages lags behind other european countries because we are on the outskirts and only had the English xenophobes to impose their languge upon us for hundreds of years.

Other countries such as Germany are bordered by many countries with many different languages and cultures. Since countries trade with others surrounding them it was needed to learn the local language. Thus most other european countries historically needed other languages and we did not.

_Kaiser_

Depends on the circumstance

Irish_Nomad wrote:

That is not ignorance. It is a perfectly normal phenomenon for people in a foreign country. When you want to relax it is much easier to do so if you can speak your own language, with people that share common cultural reference points, support the same/rival football teams, understand your jokes without them having to be explained, etc. Every nationality that I have come across behaves this way. While you will sometimes meet people that immerse themselves in the local culture they are the exceptions.

Your own observations should have made you realise this. As you mention they all behave that way. The fact that you conclude they are all ignorant just suggests that you are predisposed to think ill of them.

Please re-read what I wrote. I said they do this while in Irish company.
Of course I don't mind if they talk away in their native language (good way to keep up your practise of it after all), but doing so while in a group of other people who don't speak the same language is just bad manners, pure and simple.

I also said that it doesn't encourage integration, which in (especially) a work/social environment is not a good thing surely.

Jigsaw

My Chinese takeaway has arrived, so bye bye.

the_syco

Depends on the circumstance

Kaiser2000 wrote:

As far as rb's points go, it's not just the Polish that stick to themselves and speak their own language in Irish company. I worked for a large IT multinational and they ALL (Spanish, Italian, French, German etc) do it, and you're right, it's pure ignorance.

It's not ignorance. They stick to their own like the Irish stick to their own when abroad. The difference: we just don't seem to give a flying f**k, and will go out drinking with hte locals for the craic. Some of the foreigners here will stick to their own, as they're met with complete racist ignorance. I said some, as the rest will go out drinking with us.

I've come across Polish, French, Spanich, and Chinese who, if given half a chance, will come out drinking, and have the craic.

[rant]As for being rude talking in their own language, what ****ing ****** bull****. Christ all ****ing mighty. The amount of times people talk to their mates about "yer one across the dance dloor giving me the eye"... oh, wait, you talk your own language, as it's spur of the moment, don't you? And yet if a foreigner does it, it's bad? Cop the **** on lad. Have you ever heard one paddy speak the local tongue in Ibiza?[/rant]

Oh, and for the record, do any of ye know how you say "der Kunde kann nicht scheinen, das Gedächtnis in den internen Schlitz einzusetzen" in English? You do? Well, then, can you explain "Schlitz einzusetzen" in simpler German, so that the German dude will then know how to say it in English to the customer? Yes, I know, it involves the two lads speaking German, one telling the other how to say something, but if you know a word in German, such as "sichtgraphikadapterkabel", and you want to insert it into the "graphikkarte", but don't know how to say it in English, would you ask the English speaking person, or someone (like another German person), how to say it in English?

The above is an example. I see many of the Polish ask other Polish questions about the working of a computer, and they need to ask a polish person, as an English speaking person won't have a clue WTF they're on about.

thefinalstage

Jigsaw wrote:

My Chinese takeaway has arrived, so bye bye.

Not true. Its too late, none are open. Spreading lies on the internet! For shame!

randylonghorn

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

thelastangryman wrote:

Our grasp of foreign languages lags behind other european countries because we are on the outskirts and only had the English xenophobes to impose their languge upon us for hundreds of years.

Fair point ... up to a point. However, this state has been independent for the best part of a century. The majority of us are still dreadful at languages ... and still just as inclined as the English and Americans to assume everyone SHOULD speak English when we go abroad.

thelastangryman wrote:

Other countries such as Germany are bordered by many countries with many different languages and cultures. Since countries trade with others surrounding them it was needed to learn the local language. Thus most other european countries historically needed other languages and we did not.

Again, fair point ... up to a point! However, we are members of the EU, we trade internationally ... and to a great extent we still expect everyone to deal with us in English. Luckily, we usually get our way.

Pythia

Depends on the circumstance

Irish_Nomad wrote:

I find it hilarious that many people here are so demanding about language skills when as a nation our grasp of foreign languages lags well behind other European countries.

But it doesn't matter if we can't speak other languages as we aren't emigrating en masse to another EU country that doesn't speak English.

enda1

Depends on the circumstance

Pythia wrote:

But it doesn't matter if we can't speak other languages as we aren't emigrating en masse to another EU country that doesn't speak English.

I am! Just after moving to Brussels and not a word of French or Dutch to my name. Its grand though, the jobs in English. Back on topic, no they shouldn't be thought the language for free, that's just silly.

Heinrich

enda1 wrote:

I am! Just after moving to Brussels and not a word of French or Dutch to my name. Its grand though, the jobs in English. Back on topic, no they shouldn't be thought the language for free, that's just silly.

If ye have the odd word of Flemish you should get by!:D

Mais de toute facon, tout le monde parle anglais a Bruxelles.:p
Keine probleme

KTRIC

About 2 years ago when I was in Bayreuth (Bavaria) I seen Herr Stoiber address the public and in his speach he said that the Bavarian government do not want forgieners that can't speak German and if they don't have a good standard they shouldn't bother coming.

I thought it was a bit harsh until I seen the flood of non-english speakers in Dublin recently. I was finding it hard to hold a simple conversation with staff in a newsagents.

tameagdul

Out of curiosity, what countries?

Korea and Japan. I don't think it was like government policy, more local government initiatives. It was such a nice simple gesture on their part, and left many people with a better impression of the place.

phasers

they should have to take an English test when they get here
if it's below standard, send em back

if we should be promoting anything it should be the use of Irish

Depends on the circumstance

Well in the UK they have finally copped on (hopefully) by insisting that immigrants are able to speak English before they arrive.

Where I used to live (Northampton) the social services had leaflets in about 60 languages. There appeared to be no attempt to insist on English being used by claiments, just work out what language they speak and find an interpreter.

People should at least be able to speak the local language whereever you are, tá mé ag foghiaim Gaeilge, but I'm still crap at it for the moment.:(

arybvtcw0eolkf

Depends on the circumstance

Exit wrote:

Why do you assume that every immigrant is a chancer?

Because their taking a chance on coming here, simple.

Exit

Mairt wrote:

Because their taking a chance on coming here, simple.

:rolleyes: Ridiculous answer.

Slow Motion

Talliesin wrote:

In English we don't put spaces before exclamation and question marks. Maybe you should emigrate to another English-speaking country and their tax-payers will help you out.

Wow with all the debate going on you decide to attack my grammer and writing skills ? This is the way I was thought to type, by a professional ! If it offends your sensibilities tough ! Your post contributes very little to the topic at hand, but thanks for the pedantry.

Dyr

Exit wrote:

Because it's what half your posts seem to be about.

And you're the one whining about sweeping generalisations?

chopperbyrne

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

Deleted User wrote:

My job and exchange were mostly through English. That said, there are certain jobs (e.g. construction, cleaning), where only the most basic language skills are needed. As folks' english advances they can move up the career ladder and integrate more fully into Irish society.

You've clearly not spent much time on sites if you think only the most basic language skills are needed.

Dyr

One of my relatives gave up working as a scaffolder cos he realised it was only a matter time before some no-english-having-not-giving-a-s**t about safety-fordiner on a site killed him.

chopperbyrne

Depends on the circumstance

chopperbyrne wrote:

You've clearly not spent much time on sites if you think only the most basic language skills are needed.

I had a Romainian guy working for me for a few days, for the job he used a "grunter" and "mickeys" while on the job. It was quicker for me to learn what he called 'em rather than him trying to get him to understand me when I used the "English" terms.

Terry

Depends on the circumstance

Bambi wrote:

One of my relatives gave up working as a scaffolder cos he realised it was only a matter time before some no-english-having-not-giving-a-s**t about safety-fordiner on a site killed him.

Very thin line, Bambi.

Dyr

fair enuff, I withdraw the remark a catharlach but still, there's more anecdotes here from the ould PC liberal shower than you'd get at a ronnie corbet show, and..

Todd Unctious wrote:

thats totally unfair

btw my relative in this instance is half asian

Wook

next time on your travels, when you visit one of the many Irish pubs ask them if they speak the language of the country ?:)
In Belgium they dont, and we like it gives us a bit of authentic feeling, so all your crap about you guys acting differently...not true.

wyk

In the US, we had bilingual education for Mexican immigrants. It didn't work. All they did was learn their classes nearly entirely in Spanish. It was dropped not too long ago. It cost the US gov millions and millions.

I brought over some relatives from Japan that knew no English whatsoever in the mid 80's. I taught them as much as I could over the span of a year with as much immersion as possible, then sent them to school. They ended up doing fine, and now speak English fluently - without any accent(other than an American one). One went to college and she is now an editor for a prominent magazine based out of Chicago, the other joined the military and is now an officer.

It isn't the mission of the state to teach foreign persons the language. It also is not necessarily in the best interests of the state, either. You are not that desperate for workers.

Wez

Varkov

Depends on the circumstance

No thanks, I'd like my taxes (THAT I WORKED FOR!) to be used in......ohhh, I dunno. Maybe some more guards on the street. Maybe public transport that worked. Enough room for kids to stretch their legs out in a classrom? I know, somewhere for an Ill person to lie down!

No problems with the kids getting bumped up to speed in school, but you wanna bring your whole family somewhere to work? Learn how to speak the language.

Also, you want to waste money making your country looking super trendy, hip and rediculously politicly correct? Dont waste the bloody tax payers money on **** they dont want it spent on!

GRRRRRR!

Talliesin

Slow Motion wrote:

Wow with all the debate going on you decide to attack my grammer and writing skills ? This is the way I was thought to type, by a professional ! If it offends your sensibilities tough ! Your post contributes very little to the topic at hand, but thanks for the pedantry.

You don't see how it's on topic?

Even more so with your added information. I'd definitely object to my taxes going to said "professional"?

Did he or she actually claim that this difference between how English is used by everyone else wasn't merely their own idiosyncrasy? Did they actually say anything about the fact that every single book you'll ever come across will differ from the punctuation they taught you?

Ask for your money back.