sandman's turn

lw

The following is from WWE.com:

WWE has come to terms on the release of Raw Superstar and ECW Original Sandman as of September 11. We wish him the best in all his future endeavors.

ShawnRaven

... and don't let the door hit you on the way out! I'm not gonna miss him.
Now we have something else to remember 9/11 for!
VR!

lw

validreasoning! wrote:

Now we have something else to remember 9/11 for!
VR!

A happy reason this time

kyp_durron

ShawnRaven

Saw that already, found it disturbing is that i can tell what four out of six of those Hogan shots were actually from

top left - Hogan nailing Andre with the chair at Mania 4
top right - Hogan giving Savage the big boot at Mania 5
middle left - Pointing at HHH - Backlash 02
Bottom right - Promo poster 1991.

I know, i need to get out more. But i've already said it so i don't need some asswipe repeating it

VR!

LegacyUser

jesus man u need to get out more

Mr.Nice Guy

What the fook? Why now? Hardly a surprise in the grand scheme of things since most of us felt his days were numbered when the originals started disappearing but I find the timing of this very surprising. He featured very prominently on last night's Raw and the show is running out of guys.

That said, his match with Santino was bowling shoe ugly as JR would say so maybe that was the clincher for Hornswoggle's old man.

Tricity Bendix

Never - ever - liked him. Delighted he's gone.

Vince135792003

He entertained me, sometimes for the right and sometimes for the wrong reasons. The kinda guy a roster should always have.

ec18

validreasoning! wrote:

Saw that already, found it disturbing is that i can tell what four out of six of those Hogan shots were actually from

top left - Hogan nailing Andre with the chair at Mania 4
top right - Hogan giving Savage the big boot at Mania 5
middle left - Pointing at HHH - Backlash 02
Bottom right - Promo poster 1991.

I know, i need to get out more. But i've already said it so i don't need some asswipe repeating it

VR!

Whats this?

ShawnRaven

poster image kyp durron posted, where they originally came from. (The Hogan images, not the buildings!)

VR!

AlphaMale 3OO

yeah what photos? i never thought sandman was great but why bother even moving him in the draft in the first place? His matches were pretty irrelevant but the story seems to get worse for WWE every day. I think we can safely say he wasnt roided up but I cant imagine him being happy about being released at a time where his integrity might be brought into question due to the suspensions and expulsions of those around him.

rossie1977

this is a strange one, he is getting more over by the week, he was involved in a solid angle with santino, he played a major role on raw a few hours before and is even in the photos with the green bay packers players after raw.

It was also the first time i ever saw him do a over the top rope plancha on WWE tv too on Monday night.

The Raw roster is paper thin at present (16-17 full time wrestlers as of now i believe), i cannot see them firing him, more likely he quit himself.

ShawnRaven

forbesii wrote:

yeah what photos?

He posted up some photos, altho i'm at work and i can't view it either so either the link is unstable or colleges/workplace have blocked the host.

VR!

Kid Nothing

Leaving him high and dry in the lawsuit that some female fan filed against him as well. She claimed he grabbed her, her spilled beer on her and degraded her!!! She's obviously a pretty big fan! ANyway when WWE tried to defen him with video footage of it, the judge told them something along the lines of "the case is against him not your company"!!! Hard times all round for The Sandman

ShawnRaven

Meh, we'll see him in TNA in a month or so. Aw crap, my reason for watching TNA is dwindling by the day.

VR!

Fozzy

forbesii wrote:

I think we can safely say he wasnt roided up but I cant imagine him being happy about being released at a time where his integrity might be brought into question due to the suspensions and expulsions of those around him.

His integrity? He's openly talked about the many crazy times he had doing drugs in the past, he's already got a reputation in that respect. I don't think any accusations of doing steroids would bother him that much at all

I was enjoying Sandman more and more as the weeks went by recently. I just found it entertaining that WWE actually had him on live tv. Although he's had some bad matches, they're entertaining bad matches! Like when he started chain-wrestling with one of his opponents last month, it was just weird to see. On Raw this week he twisted his ankle running across the ring, but he carried on pretty well. I'd much rather see a bad Sandman match than a Khali or Batista or Jim Duggan bad match

I'm not sure that I'd find him nearly as entertaining in TNA though. If it's true that WWE released him because they wanted nothing to do with his lawsuit then that's kinda bad, but it's not the worst thing WWE have done recently

rossie1977

maybe they got rid of him because he injured himself on raw seems if you sneeze the wrong way these days vince will sack you.

Well thats two of Santino's opponents down (umaga, sandman), who next for the little Italian; i would like to see a major angle between Santino and Ron Simmons, they keep hinting at it

Mr.Nice Guy

rossie1977 wrote:

Well thats two of Santino's opponents down (umaga, sandman), who next for the little Italian; i would like to see a major angle between Santino and Ron Simmons, they keep hinting at it

A match between them would suck though.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

A match between them would suck though.

I would agree here, Santino stinks up the ring as it is, and Simmons is retired and horribly out of shape now.

VR!

rossie1977

validreasoning! wrote:

Simmons is retired and horribly out of shape now.

VR!

nah, simmons is a Mesomorph (he has said so himself on a number of occasions) and doesn't really need to work out. His eating habits have been well documented through the years

Bubs101

And drinking habits. I'd really hate simmons to return to the ring unless they re-did the nation or acolytes

AlphaMale 3OO

Fozzy wrote:

His integrity? He's openly talked about the many crazy times he had doing drugs in the past, he's already got a reputation in that respect. I don't think any accusations of doing steroids would bother him that much at all

Yeah but I didnt know he was a junkie in the first place.

ShawnRaven

I wouldn't go so far that he was a junkie as such, in the sense that his life depended on it. But he was definitely on the RVD scale of recreational drug use.

VR!

Double C

Surely Sandman was on harder stuff than RVD? Am I wrong in saying that van Dam only smokes weed?

Fozzy

Double C wrote:

Surely Sandman was on harder stuff than RVD?

Having watched one of the Raven & Sandman shoot interviews, it's safe to say that yes, he was. Sandman was having a great time talking about the first time he took ecstasy (I think) and overdosed on it. Raven was keen to point out that it wasn't safe and it wasn't smart though

Never heard any stories about RVD on anything but weed

Double C

I seem to recall Sandman talking about acid and heroin too. I think that tips the scale! Van Dam is Mr. 420, thats a walk in the park compared to Sandman! RVD doesn't seem like the kind to do anything more than a few joints.

ShawnRaven

"only a few joints", like that's actually acceptable.
Man i am so sick and tired of people defending RVD's pot smoking. An illegal drug is an illegal drug, regardless of it's class.

VR!

littlejp

validreasoning! wrote:

"only a few joints", like that's actually acceptable.
Man i am so sick and tired of people defending RVD's pot smoking. An illegal drug is an illegal drug, regardless of it's class.

RVD is an adult and can make his own choices about what he puts into his body. As we saw after he won the title he made a bad choice and it pretty much ruined his career at that point.
I would still look more favorably on RVD smoking a bit of weed which obviously doesn't affect his performance than I would look at someone like Benoit or anyone else for that matter using steroids.
I would also look at different classes of drugs as being different regardless of illegality. There's a massive difference between smoking a joint and injecting cocaine directly into your eyeball.... but that's an argument for a whole other forum.

rossie1977

people inject cocaine directly into their eyeballs for real, wow :eek:

The reason why pot was made illegal at the turn of the century is hilarious.

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

"only a few joints", like that's actually acceptable.
Man i am so sick and tired of people defending RVD's pot smoking. An illegal drug is an illegal drug, regardless of it's class.

VR!

An 'illegal drug' is one which the government hasn't got a tax on.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

An 'illegal drug' is one which the government hasn't got a tax on.

Agreed, but regardless. And hey, i don't wanna sound like i'm preaching, cigarettes and alcohol can cause just as much damage to a person and everyone's responsible for their own actions.

I just love it when people get outraged when WWE suspends someone who was busted for posession, even if it is Marajuana! Case in point RVD last year. I don't give a sh*t if he's "Mr 420", the guy's a f*cking idiot for letting it get in the way of his professional life, and an even bigger idiot for getting busted with it.

But back on topic. For Sandman, i never dug him. I do appreciate that he was the genesis for what Austin's character became. But Austin was able to keep it going without going stale, for me, Sandman couldn't do that. Him being signed by WWE last year didn't interest me in the slightest, all he did was stink up the place.

In saying that, as already pointed out, as thin as WWE are on the roster side, they're obviously not that desperate to keep Sandman.

VR!

flahavaj

I dunno, there was something a little surreal and heartwarming about seeing Sandman on Monday Night Raw,an overweight beer swiling lunatic, so obviously and totally out of place amongst the chiseled physiques of WWE. After years ears of slumming it on the indies, wrestling in front of 50people in some ****ty old gym somewhere, he finally had his moment in the spotlight and got to dance with the big boys for a few short months. I guess just for a little while it showed everyone that anything was possible and in these depressing times to be a wrestling fan gave me something to smile about when he'd appear on telly once a week.

The minute he signed up I wrote him off and was CERTAIN he wouldn't last 5 minutes under the watchful eye of the Wellness Policy. But he did. Which is more than can be said for the Ortons and Lashleys of this world and i think he deserves credit for that at the very least.

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote:

The minute he signed up I wrote him off and was CERTAIN he wouldn't last 5 minutes under the watchful eye of the Wellness Policy. But he did. Which is more than can be said for the Ortons and Lashleys of this world and i think he deserves credit for that at the very least.

Only Orton and Lashley still have their jobs! So obviously they're doing SOMETHING right!

VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

Agreed, but regardless. And hey, i don't wanna sound like i'm preaching, cigarettes and alcohol can cause just as much damage to a person and everyone's responsible for their own actions.

I just love it when people get outraged when WWE suspends someone who was busted for posession, even if it is Marajuana! Case in point RVD last year. I don't give a sh*t if he's "Mr 420", the guy's a f*cking idiot for letting it get in the way of his professional life, and an even bigger idiot for getting busted with it.

I think a lot of the outrage though was due to the hypocrisy on the WWE's part because when he got the strap they were having him make subtle references to his lifestyle. Can't remember the exact words but stuff like "I like to get high etc." If I'm not mistaken they were also about to bring out a shirt similar to his old ones in ECW.

Then when he got busted it was a case of "Oh my God we had no idea Van Dam liked to smoke pot! Take the strap off him!"

I'll agree he was an idiot to get caught but that was his crime in their eyes and their moral outrage at that time was insulting.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I'll agree he was an idiot to get caught but that was his crime in their eyes and their moral outrage at that time was insulting.

Not really, it's pretty fair when you think about it and compare that situation to Eddie Guerrero. A lot of the boys in the back knew full well he was addicted to pain pills, it was even beginning to affect his work, his sloppiness with Essa Rios at Backlash 2000 was one good example and he was only with the company a wet day. He also made a series of botch ups (including falling off the apron) at Wrestlemania X7. The second he was busted with DUI, he was released.

To WWE, a police bust is a police bust. Regardless.
With regardless with WWE's hypocracy to RVD, I can't agree with that as RVD had let the world know long before he signed with WWE that he was a notorious pot smoker. WWE could hardly pretend that he was squeaky clean, especially after his shoot interview before he signed with the company! So they made some subtle hints, nothing they didn't do with X-Pac before him either. But they didn't make it that obvious. His finisher was a frog splash, ok smarks would have copped the reference immediately, but casual fans wouldn't. And who do WWE always cater to?

VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

Not really, it's pretty fair when you think about it and compare that situation to Eddie Guerrero. A lot of the boys in the back knew full well he was addicted to pain pills, it was even beginning to affect his work, his sloppiness with Essa Rios at Backlash 2000 was one good example and he was only with the company a wet day. He also made a series of botch ups (including falling off the apron) at Wrestlemania X7. The second he was busted with DUI, he was released.

I don't think it's fair to compare recreational marajauna use (which wasn't affecting RVD's work) to what was going on with Guerrero. Eddie was a mess at that time which even his closest friends acknowledged. I'm not aware of Van Dam having any such problems.

validreasoning! wrote:

To WWE, a police bust is a police bust. Regardless.
With regardless with WWE's hypocracy to RVD, I can't agree with that as RVD had let the world know long before he signed with WWE that he was a notorious pot smoker. WWE could hardly pretend that he was squeaky clean, especially after his shoot interview before he signed with the company! So they made some subtle hints, nothing they didn't do with X-Pac before him either. But they didn't make it that obvious. His finisher was a frog splash, ok smarks would have copped the reference immediately, but casual fans wouldn't. And who do WWE always cater to?

VR!

Come on, these weren't exactly subtle clues like you'd see in Lost! Remember Heyman addresssing the first ECW ONS PPV:

"I just want you to know I'm not crying. My eyes are red because I was in the back smoking a joint with Van Dam!"

If you play off this part of his lifestyle and use it to get laughs, how can you then turn around and express your outrage when this lifestyle comes into conflict with the law?

I think it was ridiculous hypocrisy on their part.

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I don't think it's fair to compare recreational marajauna use (which wasn't affecting RVD's work) to what was going on with Guerrero. Eddie was a mess at that time which even his closest friends acknowledged. I'm not aware of Van Dam having any such problems.

It wasn't affecting his work? He was botching left right and centre in 2002-2003! Even Canadian program announcers were taking the piss out of him in commercials. On TSN an announcer was quoted saying "After the break... more bad off the top rope kicks from Rob Van Dam!". How can you say that wasn't affecting his work?

"I just want you to know I'm not crying. My eyes are red because I was in the back smoking a joint with Van Dam!"

If you play off this part of his lifestyle and use it to get laughs, how can you then turn around and express your outrage when this lifestyle comes into conflict with the law?

I think it was ridiculous hypocrisy on their part.

It's one thing using a one-liner to get a crowd hyped up. And another to get brought up on police charges. Now which is more serious than the other, in fairness?

VR!

flahavaj

Does anyone know the reason behind the firing?

Ive read speculation on another board that he was given the boot for the fact that he stayed in the ring right till the end of the revelation of Vince's son, when he wasn't supposed to. Even though, when you analyse all the different criteria they used to get rid of guys from the ring he fulfilled none of them. Which, if true is ****ing hilarious and only heightens my affection for good ol' Sandman.

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

It wasn't affecting his work? He was botching left right and centre in 2002-2003! Even Canadian program announcers were taking the piss out of him in commercials. On TSN an announcer was quoted saying "After the break... more bad off the top rope kicks from Rob Van Dam!". How can you say that wasn't affecting his work?

I don't think he was getting high before his matches, I just can't imagine that the other wrestlers would allow that, especially as he was just new in the company when he was messing up the most

ShawnRaven

He was with them a year and a half when he f*cked up HHH at Survivor Series 02. Hardly a new guy at that stage Foz.

VR!

Double C

flahavaj wrote:

Does anyone know the reason behind the firing?

Ive read speculation on another board that he was given the boot for the fact that he stayed in the ring right till the end of the revelation of Vince's son, when he wasn't supposed to. Even though, when you analyse all the different criteria they used to get rid of guys from the ring he fulfilled none of them. Which, if true is ****ing hilarious and only heightens my affection for good ol' Sandman.

I think it's because of a lawsuit taken against him. He bumped into a woman during his entrance and she claimed he groped her. Of course he may have groped her, but anyways, the story goes that WWE wouldn't stand by him.

I found it funny that he was in the last 3 for both the bastard thing and the GM battle royal a few weeks ago. Sandman never held WWE gold, so he didn't fulfil all the criteria on Raw. Maybe he thought his ECW titles were good enough.

Double C

validreasoning! wrote:

He was with them a year and a half when he f*cked up HHH at Survivor Series 02. Hardly a new guy at that stage Foz.

VR!

Was that when he kneed Trips in the throat with a frog splash from the top of the Elimination Chamber? I'd say there was a fairly high chance of something going wrong with a move like that and he got unlucky. And I doubt he was unprofessional enough to get stoned before a major title match. Then again, you never know!

ShawnRaven

Double C wrote:

And I doubt he was unprofessional enough to get stoned before a major title match. Then again, you never know!

Well thats just it, we don't know, all this is is speculation. And RVD had been bitching for years that he didn't wanna be with WWE anymore, so he got his wish.

VR!

flahavaj

Double C wrote:

Was that when he kneed Trips in the throat with a frog splash from the top of the Elimination Chamber? I'd say there was a fairly high chance of something going wrong with a move like that and he got unlucky. And I doubt he was unprofessional enough to get stoned before a major title match. Then again, you never know!

I'm the last man in the world who would normally be defending RVD but you're right,in this instance, he was a little unlucky: the way the cage was constructed meant he was in an unusual crouched position when attempting the frog splash from the top of the chamber so he never really got the elevation he needed.

But alas, there are numerous other examples of RVD's sloppiness that have caused injuries to his fellow wrestlers. I remember when he first debuted during the Invasion angle, reading about serious backstage concern at the amount of legit injuries his kicks were causing.

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote:

But alas, there are numerous other examples of RVD's sloppiness that have caused injuries to his fellow wrestlers. I remember when he first debuted during the Invasion angle, reading about serious backstage concern at the amount of legit injuries his kicks were causing.

Precicely the reasons why the likes of Angle, Austin and Rock were hesitant when it came to working with him at the time, which is why his main event stay was practically an overnight one.

VR!

Kid Nothing

i read that Sandman turned up on the last international tour (South Africa right???) in a state, so looks like he's another victim of the Wellness Program, although he probably wasn't tested as it sounds like he showed up off his face!

Fozzy

amull87 wrote:

i read that Sandman turned up on the last international tour (South Africa right???) in a state, so looks like he's another victim of the Wellness Program, although he probably wasn't tested as it sounds like he showed up off his face!

I don't get why he was put on Raw then. Anytime someone has messed up on an international tour (Orton, Eugene) they were taken off tv straight away

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

It wasn't affecting his work? He was botching left right and centre in 2002-2003! Even Canadian program announcers were taking the piss out of him in commercials. On TSN an announcer was quoted saying "After the break... more bad off the top rope kicks from Rob Van Dam!". How can you say that wasn't affecting his work?

How can I say it wasn't affecting his work? Because he was placed in high profile main event matches throughout 2002 and 2003. I recall several ladder matches around that time including a highly rated one against Christian on Raw. Do you not think if it was felt his work was being affected that Vinny Mac would have prevented him from doing these matches? I'll trust Vinny Mac's opinion over some announcer.

validreasoning! wrote:

It's one thing using a one-liner to get a crowd hyped up. And another to get brought up on police charges. Now which is more serious than the other, in fairness?

VR!

That's not the issue. The issue is whether it is hypocritical for the WWE to play off his lifestyle one minute, then damn him for this very lifestyle the next. On a PPV watched by millions worldwide they made a not so subtle reference to his pot smoking lifestyle to get a cheap laugh and they used further references in promos and in shirt designs.

Do you not think that's hypocritical?

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

How can I say it wasn't affecting his work? Because he was placed in high profile main event matches throughout 2002 and 2003. I recall several ladder matches around that time including a highly rated one against Christian on Raw. Do you not think if it was felt his work was being affected that Vinny Mac would have prevented him from doing these matches? I'll trust Vinny Mac's opinion over some announcer.

Trusting Vinny Mac's opinion? This is the same guy who thought the XFL and the WBF were great ideas. One of the many opinions he was alone on. And he had one or two high profile matches during that period, let's not get carried away here. You're making it sound like he was main eventing RAW every week during that point. When in actuality he was mid-card joke tagging with Kane for most of it!

That's not the issue. The issue is whether it is hypocritical for the WWE to play off his lifestyle one minute, then damn him for this very lifestyle the next. On a PPV watched by millions worldwide they made a not so subtle reference to his pot smoking lifestyle to get a cheap laugh and they used further references in promos and in shirt designs.

Do you not think that's hypocritical?

Hypocritcial? No i don't really because if that was MY business and an empolyee was brought up on charges and it became public knowledge. I'd most likely fire him, nevermind suspend him.

I guess what is right isn't always popular, and what is popular isn't always right. Depends on your definition of both I guess. I don't smoke, be it cigarettes or weed so you can see my standpoint on it.

VR!

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

Hypocritcial? No i don't really because if that was MY business and an empolyee was brought up on charges and it became public knowledge. I'd most likely fire him, nevermind suspend him.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that RVD only got fined $140 by the court. The law didn't look at it as a major offence and I don't think most fans did either

If it's hypocritical for WWE to play up something about RVD one minute and suspend him for it the next, then it's just as hypocritical for them to push big muscular guys one minute and suspend them for what made them big and muscular the next. Except steroids have been linked to deaths

I just think that there's much more of a case to fire the guys caught buying steroids than the guy caught smoking weed. In the real world at least