Is it time Staunton goes?

Sizzler

Stan plays golf with Delaney (everytime theres a home game on) so what does that tell you? Zero chance of of John organising Stan's P45. A fúcking ridiculous situation.

At least Kerr had some idea how to coach players :eek:

The only way to get action will be to stay away from the home games....I said to myself last year I wouldnt go to another game while that clown was in charge and with every game it looks to be a great decision! Pity more people dont have the same attitude.

A few banners asking Stan to go at the next game might not be a bad thing....just dont bother staying for the match !

AARRRGH

Zebra3 wrote:

How many people posting here who want Delaney and/or Staunton out for the good of Irish football support foreign clubs and do fck all for the good of Irish football?

Take a long hard look at yourselves.

LOL. The Eircom League has got nothing to do with playing for Ireland. The Eircom League simply does not contain any players good enough for our National team. End of discussion.

Mr.Nice Guy

joe123 wrote:

Seriously a petition should be started at least to get rid of that donkey delaney and along with him will go stan.

Agreed. Someone on here should start one. I would but I don't know how. I reckon we could get a lot of names.

joe123 wrote:

Im actually thinking I hope we get absolutely mauled in our last three matches so that there is a major outcry....it seems to me everyones being quite about wanting Changes within the Irish National Team.

I know our seedings could go down. But if we get embarrased in these last three games maybe it will show how inept and clueless Stan really is?

Delaney and Staunton out now!

I agree with you again. I don't mean to sound unpatriotic but wins by Ireland will only mask the problems we have. If we get mauled then at least the problem remains exposed. Might be best to lose a few battles to ultimately win the war against the FAI crooks and force them to remove Staunton.

Zebra3

LuckyLloyd wrote:

And how many decent, true and brave Eircom league dieharders would install an Eircom league manager and play a team chosen solely from the Eircom league? For the good of Irish football?

GTFO.

dublindude wrote:

LOL. The Eircom League has got nothing to do with playing for Ireland. The Eircom League simply does not contain any players good enough for our National team. End of discussion.

Nothing like clueless ignorance. :rolleyes:

Did I say install an eircom League manager and 11 players?

What I was talking about is that the whole structure of the game in this country needs to be revamped and supported.

If you want a successful RoI NT, sending kids abroad at 15 and having our best players at the whims of foreigners is not the way to build for the future.

What happens as more and more English clubs (laden with tv cash) decide to simply buy from mainland Europe, Africa and South America and there is no structure here to develop our own players?

The FAI stages something like 80 internationals a year of which maybe 6 generate a profit. Only through a vibrant club scene (i.e. the EL) can the game truly develop in this country. The best players will always go to England, but it's much better (in most cases) for a player to go abroad at the age Doyle did than as a 15 year old kid isolated in a foreign country from their family and friends.

I posted earlier in the thread asking did people ever even go and watch any of the FAI's underage sides and nobody has posted that they have done. So it seems it's not just people have no interest in club football here, but are actually only interested in the big international occasions. Bit like the way people couldn't be arsed going to watch their county play GAA in the winter.

What people seem to want is a couple of players not good enough for England to come in and do the business and suddenly the game in Ireland is rosey again. That's only papering over the cracks. We need a vibrant game from the bottom up.

So long as the majority of Irish people aren't prepared to support the game from the bottom up, it'll be one major tournament every tweny years or so.

Enjoy.

AARRRGH

Zebra3 wrote:

Nothing like clueless ignorance. :rolleyes:

I really hope you're talking about yourself there.

Zebra3 wrote:

...lots of naive nonsense about the Eircom League somehow being related to International soccer...

Again, the Eircom League and Ireland having a successful International team are not connected whatsoever.

Zebra3 wrote:

I posted earlier in the thread asking did people ever even go and watch any of the FAI's underage sides and nobody has posted that they have done. So it seems it's not just people have no interest in club football here, but are actually only interested in the big international occasions.

You're still confused.

Zebra3 wrote:

What people seem to want is a couple of players not good enough for England to come in and do the business and suddenly the game in Ireland is rosey again. That's only papering over the cracks. We need a vibrant game from the bottom up.

Our players in the Premiership are not good enough, and the solution is to grow the Eircom League? LOL

Zebra3 wrote:

So long as the majority of Irish people aren't prepared to support the game from the bottom up, it'll be one major tournament every tweny years or so.

That's what the problem is? It's not Staunton being useless, the FAI being useless and Ireland being a small country with a small population?

As you don't get it, I will explain what the problem is -

1. We have a clueless manager.
2. We have a football organisation which appears to have a lot of weird politics going on in the background.
3. We are a small country with a small population. We have in the past punched above our weight, but to expect us to be able to regularly successfully compete with large countries like England, Spain, France, Germany etc, is just not reasonable. We have to accept we don't have the population to be world beaters.

Yes, having a thriving league in Ireland would be lovely, but it wouldn't fix our International problems.

People like you, who think you're not a "real supporter" unless you go see under age games or crappy local games - get a life!

homerjay2005

ya, tis time to move on and for him to back down......use the last 3 games for proper team building in time for this time next year for the WC qualifiers...

Zebra3

dublindude wrote:

I really hope you're talking about yourself there.

Nope, I'm talking about the likes of yourself.

dublindude wrote:

Again, the Eircom League and Ireland having a successful International team are not connected whatsoever.

Exactly what I thought as Kevin Doyle scored that cracker last Saturday. Reading have done a great job on him since they took him over as a raw 15 year old. :rolleyes:

dublindude wrote:

You're still confused.

No, I'm not.

dublindude wrote:

Our players in the Premiership are not good enough, and the solution is to grow the Eircom League? LOL

As I posted above, as the Premiiership goes more global, we're gonna have to.

dublindude wrote:

That's what the problem is? It's not Staunton being useless, the FAI being useless and Ireland being a small country with a small population?

Staunton is no genius, and as I said there is huge problems with the structure of football in this country, but the FAI can't make things work without the backing of the people from the top level to the bottom level.

dublindude wrote:

As you don't get it, I will explain what the problem is -

1. We have a clueless manager.
2. We have a football organisation which appears to have a lot of weird politics going on in the background.
3. We are a small country with a small population. We have in the past punched above our weight, but to expect us to be able to regularly successfully compete with large countries like England, Spain, France, Germany etc, is just not reasonable. We have to accept we don't have the population to be world beaters.

We're never gonna be world beaters, but a stronger eL benefits our NT. Look at the humiliation in Cyprus. How many of their players were on the side that Cork had just knocked out of Europe? Yet you dismiss the EL.....

dublindude wrote:

Yes, having a thriving league in Ireland would be lovely, but it wouldn't fix our International problems.

It won't fix them all, but it can certainly help.

dublindude wrote:

People like you, who think you're not a "real supporter" unless you go see under age games or crappy local games - get a life!

Once more you are making stuff up that I haven't said. I simply said that for the sport to prosper in this country it needs to be supported from the bottom up.

The choice is yours.

DSB

Well said.

AARRRGH

Zebra3 wrote:

I posted earlier in the thread asking did people ever even go and watch any of the FAI's underage sides and nobody has posted that they have done. So it seems it's not just people have no interest in club football here, but are actually only interested in the big international occasions.

Are you sure you're in the right topic? This is about Steve Staunton and the Senior Irish team. It's not about the under age team or the Eircom League.

Please keep your "support your local team" rant to another topic. Most people don't give a **** about crap local teams or kids playing football. We are talking about the Senior Ireland team.

_blank_

dublindude wrote:

Most people don't give a **** about crap local teams or kids playing football.

...

DSB

dublindude wrote:

Are you sure you're in the right topic? This is about Steve Staunton and the Senior Irish team. It's not about the under age team or the Eircom League.

Please keep your "support your local team" rant to another topic. Most people don't give a **** about crap local teams or kids playing football. We are talking about the Senior Ireland team.

You really aren't a football fan at all.

Zebra3

dublindude wrote:

Are you sure you're in the right topic? This is about Steve Staunton and the Senior Irish team. It's not about the under age team or the Eircom League.

Please keep your "support your local team" rant to another topic. Most people don't give a **** about crap local teams or kids playing football. We are talking about the Senior Ireland team.

That's the third time in this thread you have claimed that I have said something that I haven't. I never had a "support your local team" rant in this thread. I put forward valid points about the development of the game in this country to benefit the national senior team.

But considering you can't even see the link between the FAI's senior team and their underage teams I won't be wasting any more of time pointing these things out to you.

_blank_

Zebra3 wrote:

I won't be wasting any more of time pointing these things out to you.

You'd be doing yourself a favour there mate.

Wasted screen pixels and bandwidth tbh.

I had a siilar realisation a few weeks ago.

Much easier life.:)

Mr Alan

but isnt everyone gettin on better sinced ya stopped insulting half the users of this forum des?

_blank_

millersangel wrote:

but isnt everyone gettin on better sinced ya stopped insulting half the users of this forum des?

Yeah, but it's hard sometimes, y'know.

I think KdjaCL did an admirable job last night after the match all the same

Fair play to the lad.

Zebra3

DesF wrote:

You'd be doing yourself a favour there mate.

Yeah, I know.








*Heads off to AH to do some WUMming*

Mr Alan

Zebra3 wrote:

How many people posting here who want Delaney and/or Staunton out for the good of Irish football support foreign clubs and do fck all for the good of Irish football?

Take a long hard look at yourselves.

i havent really had any problems with any of your posts since this one.
tbh this is the one that pissed me off.
who are you to tell anyone whether or not they can have an opinion in relation to the irish national team?
i gave my opinions on why i should be allowed have an opinion on the irish national team and you ignored my post.
if i aint mistaken the FAI recieves quite a substantial amount of government grants, are we not entitled to complain when an organisation, run in part by our tax payers money, is run by a pack of clowns and employs more clowns?

maybe we aint the only ones who should take a long look at ourselves. worry about your own opinion as opposed to telling other people what they are allowed have an opinion on

DSB

I think he was pointing out that you aren't doing a huge amount to help the development of Irish football.

Mr Alan

Wat the **** does he want me to do?

Mr.Nice Guy

DSB wrote:

You really aren't a football fan at all.

Astounding arrogance. Who are you to determine what a football fan is? Do we all have to support our local teams to be "true" football fans. I'm sick of hearing this bullsh*t.

Maybe I'm not really a music fan either because I don't listen to Joe Dolan. Gimme a f*cking break.

Fact - the cream always rises to the top and the top talent is abroad.

Fact - most football fans in this country enjoy watching the top talent of the country which means watching the Premiership.

Deal with this reality. Don't get pissed off just because the big open spaces in the Eircom league matches make you chilly.

PS well said dublindude.

Dont be at yourself

A big hand to Zebra3 and company for starting a ridiculous and wholly off-topic argument!

Zebra3

It's not off-topic.

People are moaning about the FAI doing a bad job regarding Irish football while doing nothing/very little to support it themselves.

millersangel wrote:

i havent really had any problems with any of your posts since this one.
tbh this is the one that pissed me off.
who are you to tell anyone whether or not they can have an opinion in relation to the irish national team?
i gave my opinions on why i should be allowed have an opinion on the irish national team and you ignored my post.
if i aint mistaken the FAI recieves quite a substantial amount of government grants, are we not entitled to complain when an organisation, run in part by our tax payers money, is run by a pack of clowns and employs more clowns?

maybe we aint the only ones who should take a long look at ourselves. worry about your own opinion as opposed to telling other people what they are allowed have an opinion on

And for the fourth time in this thread someone has claimed I said something which I didn't. Is it acceptable to make these sort of lies up about people?

Where did I say people weren't entitled to their opinion?

All I pointed out was that people were bitching about the FAI and that some of those doing the bitching weren't doing much to help Irish football so therefore it was a bit ironic the way they were carrying on. Anything wrong with that?

Dont be at yourself

People are moaning about the FAI doing a bad job regarding Irish football while doing nothing/very little to support it themselves.

The FAI are the organisation appointed to take care of Irish Football. I, on the other hand, am not. Is it unreasonable to expect them to carry out their duty with any competence? Why should not being an avid follower of the Eircom League preclude me from voicing my discontent over the running of the National Team? As many Eircom League fans are often at pains to point out, the business of the Eircom League and the National Team rarely overlap, so what's the relationship?

Really, I think you just wanted an opportunity to jump on a soapbox and tell all of us how great you are for supporting the eL, and shame on us for just following the national team and blah de blah de blah. And, honestly, that has nothing to do with people voicing genuine criticisms of the FAI's approach to the national team. And what's more, it makes me never want to set foot in an eircom league stadium, lest I be surrounded by holier-than-thou dullards.

Zebra3

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

The FAI are the organisation appointed to take care of Irish Football. I, on the other hand, am not. Is it unreasonable to expect them to carry out their duty with any competence?

No, it's not unreasonable to expect the FAI to do their job, but as I've said, it's a bit rich people complaining about them while only half-interested in Irish football themselves. A bit like me staying at home while Shels are playing and giving out about our board.

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Why should not being an avid follower of the Eircom League preclude me from voicing my discontent over the running of the National Team? As many Eircom League fans are often at pains to point out, the business of the Eircom League and the National Team rarely overlap, so what's the relationship?

For the fifth time in this thread, someone has lied about what I've said. Where did I post that people had no right to an opinion if they weren't EL fans?

The fact that the relationship very rarely crosses between the NT and EL is the point I've been making. The EL along with other strands of the game needs to be strengthened to strengthen our NT. What happens to our NT if English clubs stop signing our kids??????

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

Really, I think you just wanted an opportunity to jump on a soapbox and tell all of us how great you are for supporting the eL, and shame on us for just following the national team and blah de blah de blah.

You think wrong.

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

And, honestly, that has nothing to do with people voicing genuine criticisms of the FAI's approach to the national team. And what's more, it makes me never want to set foot in an eircom league stadium, lest I be surrounded by holier-than-thou dullards.

Your loss.

Dont be at yourself

No, it's not unreasonable to expect the FAI to do their job, but as I've said, it's a bit rich people complaining about them while only half-interested in Irish football themselves. A bit like me staying at home while Shels are playing and giving out about our board.

Reductio ad absurdum. The fact is that the FAI's handling of the national team has nothing to do with Irish people's lack of support for the domestic league. They are two different subjects, and we don't have to follow the eircom league to voice our opinion on the national team.

Where did I post that people had no right to an opinion if they weren't EL fans?

Here:

How many people posting here who want Delaney and/or Staunton out for the good of Irish football support foreign clubs and do fck all for the good of Irish football?

Take a long hard look at yourselves.

The fact that the relationship very rarely crosses between the NT and EL is the point I've been making.

Oh, ok. Why are you making the point in this thread - about people's view on Steve Staunton and the FAI's appointment of him? Because, you know, it seems like a completely different topic, and not very relevant to the discussion at hand!

I'm sure many people here would agree with your sentiments - that the national team should strengthen links with the eL - but its completely off-topic. Why not start a thread with the aim of discussing that, instead of trying to derail this one?

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote:

For the fifth time in this thread, someone has lied about what I've said. Where did I post that people had no right to an opinion if they weren't EL fans?

Seriously dude, build a bridge and get over it. I believe this thread is called "Is it time Staunton goes?"

joe123 wrote:

Ok Irelands chances are gone. Before the game I was sticking up for him saying get behind the team and we will see....

Its time he goes. I feel sorry for him but in my oppinion he HAS to go. Listening to Brady Giles and Dunphy they were dead right. Our team isnt a bad one. Not world class but we have good players definetly capable of getting us into the world cup and european championships.

I just want to know do you think Staunton should be sacked? My oppinion Yes.

Who should we get in place? A tougher choice....

Thats the original post there btw. Can't find anywhere where you have said whether Staunton should be sacked or not, nor who we should get to replace him. Just pointing out the topic in question, start your own thread elsewhere about why we need to build from the grassroots up.

Zebra3 wrote:

But people are deluded enough into ignoring this problem and demanding a quick fix that isn't there.

You say we are looking for a quick fix solution? We're looking for a manager to look after our national senior side. Which (imo) is the most important team we should focus on. It's fine saying we should be building from the grassroots, but... why? Our grassroots are our children. Who do they look up to? If you ask any 8 year old who he rather play for, a PL side or ANY EL side, what do you think he'd choose? The pl teams have all their heroes in them. They have glamour, they're on the front of magazines etc. What can the EL offer them?

My point is that if we look after our Senior Squad and get them winning games, (which involves getting a decent manager in now) The kids will have Irish heroes to look up to once again. Do you remember the heady days of Italia 90? I never played so much football in all my life! Because the team were winning. Kids will start taking up other sports like rugby (actually-maybe not:D ) if were not careful but they wouldn't be interested in football if it wasn't for the glamour of the PL.

So a winning senior team gets people interested in Irish football, kids playing football, and maybe, the FAI could do something then about the state of the EL.


Oh and Staunton and Delaney out. George Graham in!

_blank_

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Maybe I'm not really a music fan either because I don't listen to Joe Dolan. Gimme a f*cking break.

Clearly you aren't.

Papa Smut wrote:

Do you remember the heady days of Italia 90? I never played so much football in all my life! Because the team were winning.

Nitpick.

The Irish team didn't win a game in Italia '90.

Drew with England, Holland, Egypt and Romania. Lost to Italy.

DesF

DesF wrote:

Nitpick.

The Irish team didn't win a game in Italia '90.

Drew with England, Holland, Egypt and Romania. Lost to Italy.

At least we were in a major finals....

because we came 2cd in the qualifiers.
And we beat Romania.

Don't be so pedantic

Mr Alan

DesF wrote:

Nitpick.

The Irish team didn't win a game in Italia '90.

Drew with England, Holland, Egypt and Romania. Lost to Italy.

you get his point des, don't be so pedantic.

even you cant argue that the best way to develop football and interest in football in Ireland is for the National team to be a success.

interest in the Eircom League is irrelevent in this conversation.

_blank_

millersangel wrote:

interest in the Eircom League is irrelevent in this conversation.

Read my posts in this thread again, in fact in other threads since last week.

I haven't mentioned the eL, apart from in the Irish Football This Weekend thread.

GreeBo

My god, you leave a thread for a day and it turns into this eircom league/grass roots drivel.

Fact of the matter is that success at higher levels makes it way down to the lower levels.
Leicester Celtic winning the under 12's league doesnt mean anything to Given and Reid but Given and Reid winning something does mean something to Leicester Celtic.
Thats how you promote the game at lower levels, by being successful on the world stage.

Obviously you are not going to be successful if your grassroots are totally crap but you cannot expect the same number of supporters at this level as you do at the international level.

gandalf

Any chance this thread can get back on topic or are we going to have to endure "I'm a real football fan cause xyz" and have a lot of willy waving :rolleyes:

Back on Topic
The powers that be (ie Delaney) have said they are happy with Staunton and the rebuilding work he is doing with the National team so they are sticking with their Yellow Pack option to the death. Even if Staunton does go then I can see them going for any Yellow Pack option and not spend the cash on getting a manager with a track record and experience. Its obvious the team need someone in charge that they will be scared of. Imagine the team coming in at half time on Wednesday and facing Jack Charlton or even Mick McCarthy, they would be scared to do so. Now imagine it with Staunton I doubt they would have the same level of fear.

I really feel sorry for Staunton I do, anyone me included would jump at the chance of managing their country but like me Steve is not qualified and has shown he is unable to do the job. Anyone saying he should be given a chance for the World Cup qualifying program is saying in reality that we won't be going to South Africa in 2010 either.

GreeBo

For his own sake (not to mention ours) he shouldnt have taken the job.
Like Brian Kerr he now has no chance of a managerial job anywhere else in the world. While Brian seems to be getting by as a pundit/columnist somehow I dont see the same opportunities arising for Stan.

Its all very well saying that we are in a transitional period and quoting the numbers of new caps and squad members but the fact is that none of these combinations has really worked or taught us much about the team.

We could play 11 different blokes every match and still not improve the team.

The new players are not learning anything by playing for Ireland, the team isnt getting any better.
If we could see some sort of improvement (maybe a very good defense or ability to pass/control midfield) but I dont see any areas of the team that have improved since Stan took over.

Get a new guy in, someone who knows about managing footballers and not just has played football.
I dont mind if they are young, old whatever but they they need to have a proven track record of getting the best out of mediocore-good players. Fair enough we dot have 22 Brazilian lads wearing green but they all drop in ability when they play together. Thats a managers problem.

The players are showing a very good united front and all credit to them, but they cant have much faith/belief in Stan and those doubts end up on the pitch.

_blank_

GreeBo wrote:

While Brian seems to be getting by as a pundit/columnist somehow I dont see the same opportunities arising for Stan.

Eh yeah.

Kerr is back working for St Pat's. Yes, back working for them. He won a title or something with them, a few years ago.

GreeBo

DesF wrote:

Eh yeah.

Kerr is back working for St Pat's. Yes, back working for them. He won a title or something with them, a few years ago.

back as a director of football, not a manager.

and even if he was managing Pats, its a bit of a step down from Internation manager no?

Limerick Dude

Tbh Stan is trying his best and is obviously not good enough. I dont like the way everyone is blaming him, it's Delaneys fault for appointing him in the first place.

_blank_

GreeBo wrote:

back as a director of football, not a manager.

and even if he was managing Pats, its a bit of a step down from Internation manager no?

I'm really, really confused by your post tbh.

Did I say he was managing them? Did I?

I said he was back WORKING for them.

And yes, I'd consider working for that club a step down from being a bin-man.

gandalf

Jaysus Des can you get back onto the topic!!! You're both right!

As for Staunton as I said I don't blame him at all in taking the job, unfortunately I agree with GreeBo I don't see him getting a job as a manager easily after this stint as Ireland Manager crashes and burns.

The issue here is Delaney and his "world class" manager situation. He oversold the situation to the fans and unfortunately for us, the players and Staunton its being found out as the majority of us expected it to be.

_blank_

gandalf wrote:

The issue here is Delaney and his "world class" manager situation. He oversold the situation to the fans and unfortunately for us, the players and Staunton its being found out as the majority of us expected it to be.

So, why can't he just hold his hands up and say he made a mistake?

I was offered tickets for the next two games in Croke Park, I refused them, but I have a mind to see if they are still available, go, and bring a nice long banner with me.

But then I'd be called a trouble maker.

GreeBo

DesF wrote:

I'm really, really confused by your post tbh.

Did I say he was managing them? Did I?

I said he was back WORKING for them.

And yes, I'd consider working for that club a step down from being a bin-man.

whats WORKING for them got to do with anything?
We (or at least most people here) are talking about Managing a team. If he is doing the washing up then that doesnt say much for whats Pats think about his managerial skills.

so, to sum up
1) go take a chill pill buddy, you are way on edge and
2) managers that go too high, too quickly and thus fail ruin their chances at other managerial positions in the future.

GreeBo

DesF wrote:

So, why can't he just hold his hands up and say he made a mistake?

becuase then he would have to do the same with Kerr and McCarthy and someone might start to question his ability in his position. (which I personally think is untenable at this stage)

gandalf

DesF wrote:

I was offered tickets for the next two games in Croke Park, I refused them, but I have a mind to see if they are still available, go, and bring a nice long banner with me.

But then I'd be called a trouble maker.

Jaysus go for it man, I'll sit beside you if you want (you'll have to supply the tickets thou )

Lets be honest I doubt very much that its in Delaneys character to say he made a mistake!!

Sizzler

info@fai.ie

Seems a good as place as any to start to get the clowns in there to realise that Stan being manager is unacceptable....Delaney can go too!

If I was to guess I'd say Delaney's email address is : john.delaney@fai.ie

I read in the paper today that Stan will definitely be in charge for the WC qualifiers next year :mad: :mad: :mad:
I also suggest a boycott of all the fortcoming qualifiers and any other poxy money making friendlies the FAI decide to organise over the next year.

PHB

I'm going to the Germany game, can't get back for the Cyprus game, and I am beginning to think I might bring a Delaney out banner. I'm sure some people will bring Stan out, so I'd like to get the real issue looked at

~Rebel~

PHB wrote:

I'm going to the Germany game, can't get back for the Cyprus game, and I am beginning to think I might bring a Delaney out banner. I'm sure some people will bring Stan out, so I'd like to get the real issue looked at

Do! Would be great to have something there from people who get right to the point rather then bandwagon jumpers who love a rant/complaint/moan. If you know any others that will be in other parts of the park, get them to to bring some too so it can be spread out a bit so ya dont look like a lone nutter! Ill be trying to tickets for it as well so if i manage ill be doing the same anyway!

DSB

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Astounding arrogance. Who are you to determine what a football fan is? Do we all have to support our local teams to be "true" football fans. I'm sick of hearing this bullsh*t.

Not once in my post did I say that anyone had to support their local team to be a true football fan. My reason for saying he wasn't a proper football fan was due to the utter disdain he showed in his posts to any football below what he deemed to be the top level. I'll refer to your music comparison and point out, is music only worth listening to if it is selling out venues worldwide? Would a music fan shun music based on its popularity?

Sizzler

PHB wrote:

I'm going to the Germany game, can't get back for the Cyprus game, and I am beginning to think I might bring a Delaney out banner. I'm sure some people will bring Stan out, so I'd like to get the real issue looked at

That would be class. Maybe something like Delaney & Staunton = Muppet Show

Would the over officious stewards let you hang he flag tho