Atheism,An unoffical religion

Seloth

Basically what I am sayin is that Atheism,Not agnosticism,is a unoifical and unorgainzed religion for this reason.

Atheists have a blind faith that their is no God/s or afterlife.

And from here I guess the thread begins.

layke

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

It's a lack of beleif in a diety. Atheism is not a religion, we don't all get together and discuss how to be better Atheists.

Seloth

Neither do most people who belive in God in this country.
~~Requaridng link

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

A Atheist has a firm set of Beliefs that God and an Afterlife dosent exist.

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Same as above.

3. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

same as above the above.

~~

we don't all get together

Thats why I said it is an unoifical and unorgainzed religion

Myksyk

To call on the old cliche ... Atheism is a religion in the same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a sound philosophical argument informed by science, resulting in a 'beyond reasonable doubt' judgement that there is no such thing as the supernatural (in all its proposed guises).

I'm guessing that you probably 'believe' (i.e. commit to a firm posiiton based on the available evidence) that we are not, in all liklihood, living a matrix-like virtual existence in an alien insect-consructed pod ... that being the case, you would probably think it foolish for someone to describe your stance as 'unofficially religious'.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Yes you're right, it's exactly like the way being firmly sure that the tooth fairy doesn't exist is an unorganised and unofficial religion.

Or for that matter being firmly sure that transformers isn't based on actual events...

etc. ad nauseum.

Seloth

at we are not, in all liklihood, living a matrix-like virtual existence in an alien insect-consructed pod

All thought I do think its doughtful I'm open it.

Yes you're right, it's exactly like the way being firmly sure that the tooth fairy doesn't exist is an unorganised and unofficial religion.

Or for that matter being firmly sure that transformers isn't based on actual events...

etc. ad nauseum.

You see what you say cannot be used as an example as they are not of a religouse status.People dont believe that the toothfairy dosent exist as we know it dosent exist,we know that it was a thing made up in 1950 america .Religion on the other hand is totoally diffrent.WHile we do know that the Tooth fairly dosent exit a God like figure canot be proven or disproven to exist.Dus making your post obsolete.

lostexpectation

Seloth wrote:

All thought I do think its doughtful I'm open it.

then you are fool

Seloth wrote:

You see what you say cannot be used as an example as they are not of a religouse status.People dont believe that the toothfairy dosent exist as we know it dosent exist,we know that it was a thing made up in 1950 america .Religion on the other hand is totoally diffrent.WHile we do know that the Tooth fairly dosent exit a God like figure canot be proven or disproven to exist.Dus making your post obsolete.

we don't have blind faith we know what religion is it was made up many times in many places as a way to explain and feel better about the unknown, we more comfortable about not knowing things, but the doesn't mean we. You talking like the possibility that this thing called god exists, in the real world it doesn't, this where both atheist and the religious exist, but they just add in a communal delusion to their viewpoint.

Seloth

Call me a fool if you like,While I said I dont think it true but i'm open at least I can accep things,while you seem to think that you are instantly right.

You have the belief their my friend that it was made up,which is giving you blind faith.

Dave!

Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Seloth? Yes or no?

5uspect

Didn't I have a similar conservation with you before?

Seloth wrote:

You see what you say cannot be used as an example as they are not of a religouse status.People dont believe that the toothfairy dosent exist as we know it dosent exist,we know that it was a thing made up in 1950 america .Religion on the other hand is totoally diffrent.WHile we do know that the Tooth fairly dosent exit a God like figure canot be proven or disproven to exist.Dus making your post obsolete.

How do you know that the tooth fairy doesn't exist? Can you prove it?
Lets see the evidence. Maybe he only revealed his toothy glory in 1950, how do you know otherwise?

Just because lots of people believe something (and have believed it since people used stones to bash each other's heads in) doesn't make it anymore true than anything else you or I could conjure up in our little brains. Hence the flying spaghetti monster which now has millions of followers apparently...

Beruthiel

Seloth wrote:

Atheists have a blind faith that their is no God/s or afterlife.

Blind?
If you consider thinking things through, over years, on a regular basis, as 'blind' then there's your problem straight away. Nor do I consider that kind of thinking to result in a 'faith' but rather a conclusion after examing the facts as we see them.

Dades

Seloth wrote:

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


A Atheist has a firm set of Beliefs that God and an Afterlife dosent exist.

The belief that something is simply not real does not constitute a set of beliefs.

Seloth wrote:

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Same as above.

What practices are you referring to exactly? Debating on internet forums?

Seloth wrote:

3. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

same as above the above.

How you follow devotedly something that doesn´t exist?

Find a real argument or begone for trolling.

pH

Myksyk wrote:

To call on the old cliche ... Atheism is a religion in the same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a religion in the same was a 'bald' is a hair colour.

Zombrex

Seloth wrote:

All thought I do think its doughtful I'm open it.

Being open to it is nothing to do with it. I'm a die hard atheist, and I'm open to the idea that a supernatural deity exists. I'm open to anything existing, but the evidence needs to be there to convince me. With no reason to believe something I won't believe it. Just because other people believe it is irrelevant.

The issue is whether or not you are open, it is whether or not you believe these things do exist.

Do you actually believe that we live in a massive alien computer system hooked up to each other?

I seriously doubt it, in which case you are an a-"massive-alien-matrix-computer-reality" person.

Seloth wrote:

You see what you say cannot be used as an example as they are not of a religouse status.People dont believe that the toothfairy dosent exist as we know it dosent exist,we know that it was a thing made up in 1950 america

And we know that humans invent concepts like gods as a by product of the way the human brain processes the world around them within a frame work of agency and patterns based on human interaction.

Seloth wrote:

WHile we do know that the Tooth fairly dosent exit a God like figure canot be proven or disproven to exist.

Please "prove" to me that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. I would bet large sums of money you cannot do that.

What you can do is put forward a convincing argument that the tooth fairy as an idea was invented by humans, and as such the likelihood that there exists in reality a real tooth fairy is very very small to the point where you can say with strong certainty that the concept is not a reflection of reality.

And I can do exactly the same with God.

5uspect

I think now is an ideal time to post this again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUfDWwWKXqQ
(I think The Atheist posted it before?)

Dave!

Wicknight wrote:

Being open to it is nothing to do with it. I'm a die hard atheist, and I'm open to the idea that a supernatural deity exists. I'm open to anything existing, but the evidence needs to be there to convince me. With no reason to believe something I won't believe it. Just because other people believe it is irrelevant.

The issue is whether or not you are open, it is whether or not you believe these things do exist.

Do you actually believe that we live in a massive alien computer system hooked up to each other?

I seriously doubt it, in which case you are an a-"massive-alien-matrix-computer-reality" person.


And we know that humans invent concepts like gods as a by product of the way the human brain processes the world around them within a frame work of agency and patterns based on human interaction.



Please "prove" to me that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. I would bet large sums of money you cannot do that.

What you can do is put forward a convincing argument that the tooth fairy as an idea was invented by humans, and as such the likelihood that there exists in reality a real tooth fairy is very very small to the point where you can say with strong certainty that the concept is not a reflection of reality.

And I can do exactly the same with God.

It's really frustrating that some people don't get that idea.....

I think Dawkins was on Bill Oreilly before and RD mentioned that we're all atheists when it comes to [Poseidon], and of course Billo dismissed the point, "yeah I saw [Poseidon] just the other day and he's not lookin so good" :rolleyes: Complete moron, can't put 2 and 2 together.

5uspect

Very true.
"We all know those gods are make believe, but God created us silly!"

Crucifix

It is a religious position, but not an organised religion.

Seloth

I just realised why I stoped posting here which I will explain aafter people awnser this question.

For the Atheists,Not the agnostics.

Are you open to other ideas?

Also I think people should really listen to what the guy said on the YT link.

Myksyk

I think it would be fair to say that most atheists would start believing in the supernatural if there was compelling evidence to do so. There isn't.

Dave!

Myksyk wrote:

I think it would be fair to say that most atheists would start believing in the supernatural if there was compelling evidence to do so. There isn't.

Agreed. I am open to any ideas that are supported by evidence.

Now please enlighten us as to why you stopped posting here. I'm guessing it's because you realised your argument is nonsense..........

Zombrex

Seloth wrote:

For the Atheists,Not the agnostics.

Are you open to other ideas?

I'm open to every idea. Present me with the idea, and reasons to believe in it, and I will assess it and get back to you.

The point that seems to be lost on you though is that just because someone is open to an idea doesn't mean they will automatically believe it.

People who believe in things like gods, ghosts, ufo's etc always seem to throw the idea around that people who do not share these beliefs are simply close minded, and that is why they don't believe in it. It could not possibly be because the idea isn't worth believing in, because they believe in it and they like to think of themselves as intelligent rational people.

In fact a far more likely explanation is that the people who don't share the belief have perfectly valid reasons for this, most of the time because the original belief is simply nonsense.

But this annoys the "believers", because they often have invested a lot personally in the belief, a lot riding on the belief being true, and therefore don't like the idea that people think they are mistaken in this belief.

They prefer instead to think that there must be something wrong those who don't share the belief, that the fault must rest in others that they label as close minded. The fault cannot rest with them, because again they like to think of themselves as intelligent rational people.

Everyone else must be wrong

Which is why atheists have to put up with a steady stream of people who get angry and annoyed with them and say that they must be close minded not to believe in God, that they are not open to new ideas, and that they are arrogant about what they think they know, that they are selfish and want to live without morals ... etc etc.

It is easier to do this than to seriously consider that the atheists might be on to something

Scofflaw

Seloth wrote:

Basically what I am sayin is that Atheism,Not agnosticism,is a unoifical and unorgainzed religion for this reason.

Atheists have a blind faith that their is no God/s or afterlife.

Nah, it's just the most probable explanation, and stands up extremely well under test.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

You're just awful at this Seloth

Seloth

The point that seems to be lost on you though is that just because someone is open to an idea doesn't mean they will automatically believe it.

Wiknight...If your open to it,then why not this.There has been plenty of evidense for Gods,Ghosts and such.

For instace earler when some one mentioned a bout us being ina Matrix like thing and I said I was open to it yet the perosn called me a fool when there have been quite a few papers about such a subject.

The fear I get is that most of you think I am a die hard catholic which is in all senses wrong.I really dislike the Christian page as it's so...well American Chistian style and that just makes me sad...litraly have you ever gone to the Religion part of Pal talk.I start crying((No seriously))not becasue they have such wonderful stories but becasue they are all idiots and give religion a bad name and they ar ejust well...bah

I am open to the idea that God and so fort dosent exist ,I have thought through allot of things about the subject.Unfortunatly trying to explain them on the internet is very difficult to do and msot of the time people either get the wrong impression or some one who's well basically and extremist((on both sides))will start bitching.

All in all besides just forgettting about the website I stopedmposting in here because it's hard to expresss a point with people who are stubber on the net.I could talk about this subject in RL and it would make the person think allot about the subject and may chage or spark new views but Religion and net are bad mix up.

Zombrex

Seloth wrote:

Wiknight...If your open to it,then why not this.There has been plenty of evidense for Gods,Ghosts and such.

Such as?

Seloth wrote:

For instace earler when some one mentioned a bout us being ina Matrix like thing and I said I was open to it yet the perosn called me a fool when there have been quite a few papers about such a subject.

There have been quite a few scientific papers exploring the theory that we are all hooked up to a super alien computer and living in a virtual universe? Really? Can I read them?

Seloth wrote:

All in all besides just forgettting about the website I stopedmposting in here because it's hard to expresss a point with people who are stubber on the net.I could talk about this subject in RL and it would make the person think allot about the subject and may chage or spark new views but Religion and net are bad mix up.

I'm not sure if you are drunk, or if English isn't your first language, or if you are simply excited and typing fast, but I'm afraid I can't understand that paragraph at all. Perhaps you should re-write it in the morning and I will do my best to respond.

Seloth

Lol sorry but I am half asleep when posting that.

lostexpectation

Seloth wrote:

Call me a fool if you like,While I said I dont think it true but i'm open at least I can accep things,while you seem to think that you are instantly right.

You have the belief their my friend that it was made up,which is giving you blind faith.

I don't believe or have faith in anything I thought and considered and decided there is no god due to lack of evidence and more importantly I don't agree with the idea, I grew up in catholic household my lack of faith ain't blind.

Dave!

Seloth wrote:

Wiknight...If your open to it,then why not this.There has been plenty of evidense for Gods,Ghosts and such.

For instace earler when some one mentioned a bout us being ina Matrix like thing and I said I was open to it yet the perosn called me a fool when there have been quite a few papers about such a subject.

The fear I get is that most of you think I am a die hard catholic which is in all senses wrong.I really dislike the Christian page as it's so...well American Chistian style and that just makes me sad...litraly have you ever gone to the Religion part of Pal talk.I start crying((No seriously))not becasue they have such wonderful stories but becasue they are all idiots and give religion a bad name and they ar ejust well...bah

I am open to the idea that God and so fort dosent exist ,I have thought through allot of things about the subject.Unfortunatly trying to explain them on the internet is very difficult to do and msot of the time people either get the wrong impression or some one who's well basically and extremist((on both sides))will start bitching.

All in all besides just forgettting about the website I stopedmposting in here because it's hard to expresss a point with people who are stubber on the net.I could talk about this subject in RL and it would make the person think allot about the subject and may chage or spark new views but Religion and net are bad mix up.

Woah, that doesn't make a lick of sense!

Seloth

Well if you read above I was half asleep when posting

5uspect

Well would you care to explan yourself now?

Seloth

Wiknight...If your open to it,then why not this.There has been plenty of evidense for Gods,Ghosts and such.

For instace earlier when some one mentioned about us being in a Matrix like thing and I said I was open to it yet the peron called me a fool when there have been quite a few papers about such a subject.

The fear I get is that most of you think I am a die hard catholic which is in all senses wrong.I really dislike the Christian page as it's so...well American Chistian style and that just makes me sad...litraly have you ever gone to the Religion part of Pal talk.I start crying((Not seriously))not becasue they have such wonderful stories but becasue they are all idiots and give religion a bad name and they are just well...bah

I am open to the idea that God and so fort dosent exist ,I have thought through allot of things about the subject.Unfortunatly trying to explain them on the internet is very difficult to do and most of the time people either get the wrong impression or some one who's well basically and extremist((on both sides))will start bitching.

All in all besides just forgettting about the website I stoped posting in here because it's hard to expresss a point with people who are stubbern on the net.I could talk about this subject in RL and it would make the person think allot about the subject and may chage or spark new views but Religion and net are bad mix up.

Myksyk

Ok Seloth . . . time to dose yourself with Red Bull!

Ciaran500

Seloth wrote:

Wiknight...If your open to it,then why not this.There has been plenty of evidense for Gods,Ghosts and such.

For instace earlier when some one mentioned about us being in a Matrix like thing and I said I was open to it yet the peron called me a fool when there have been quite a few papers about such a subject.

The fear I get is that most of you think I am a die hard catholic which is in all senses wrong.I really dislike the Christian page as it's so...well American Chistian style and that just makes me sad...litraly have you ever gone to the Religion part of Pal talk.I start crying((Not seriously))not becasue they have such wonderful stories but becasue they are all idiots and give religion a bad name and they are just well...bah

I am open to the idea that God and so fort dosent exist ,I have thought through allot of things about the subject.Unfortunatly trying to explain them on the internet is very difficult to do and most of the time people either get the wrong impression or some one who's well basically and extremist((on both sides))will start bitching.

All in all besides just forgettting about the website I stoped posting in here because it's hard to expresss a point with people who are stubbern on the net.I could talk about this subject in RL and it would make the person think allot about the subject and may chage or spark new views but Religion and net are bad mix up.

You already said that and it was answered above

5uspect

Seloth, your posts are impossible to decipher!

Myksyk

For a variety of reasons I think this thread isn't worth continuing.

Dades

Myksyk wrote:

For a variety of reasons I think this thread isn't worth continuing.

I wanna hear the evidence for gods!

Zillah

The Atheist wrote:

I wanna hear the evidence for gods!

They feel it inside.

5uspect

To the morgue!

MoominPapa

The Atheist wrote:

I wanna hear the evidence for gods!

I'm more interested in the evidence for ghosts:eek: Wanna fill us in Seloth?





Seloths last post in this thread

I would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you pesky atheists

Seloth

Look it up your self,there have been plenty of findings for things such as ghosts.


I dunno if I believe in them are not but meh,There is a good bit of evidense.

More people believe in Ghosts then they do God.Thats inclduing all the people that believe in the Christian,Jewish,Muslim God(As its practically the same thing) and inclduing atheists and such,And people of diffrent faiths.

5uspect

Is there any evidence at all? Or are you just saying that there is?
If you have evidence post it. Simple as that.

Myksyk

Seloth wrote:

Look it up your self,there have been plenty of findings for things such as ghosts.

A stunningly vacuous point.

I dunno if I believe in them are not but meh,There is a good bit of evidense.

Like? You must have some to hand as you are making such a bold claim ... surely it can't be a case of "I saw it on telly some time" or "I read it in a magazine".

More people believe in Ghosts then they do God.Thats inclduing all the people that believe in the Christian,Jewish,Muslim God(As its practically the same thing) and inclduing atheists and such,And people of diffrent faiths.

Where did you get that statistic ... and if it's true, so what? The amount of people who believe in something or the strength with which they hold such a belief has exactly nothing to do with its validity or truth.

Dades

Seloth wrote:

More people believe in Ghosts then they do God.

TBF they are on series 9 of Most Haunted.

If people can watch 9 seasons of that crock of crap then anything is possible.

PDN

Seloth wrote:

More people believe in Ghosts then they do God.Thats inclduing all the people that believe in the Christian,Jewish,Muslim God(As its practically the same thing) and inclduing atheists and such,And people of diffrent faiths.

At one time almost everybody believed the earth was flat. Does that constitute evidence that it was true?

This thread is truly bizarre.

Do you think it has the potential to become the A&A equivalent of the Creationism thread? That would be fun.

robindch

PDN wrote:

At one time almost everybody believed the earth was flat. Does that constitute evidence that it was true?

An interesting point, because within many religious epistemologies, something can indeed be considered true if lots of people actually do believe it. For example, the Vatican's assertion of the existence of a (relatively) infallible authority of tradition (more here) is a direct expression of this idea that truth can derive from belief.

Seloth

Seloth wrote:

More people believe in Ghosts then they do God.

First - that's a really lame argument. Speaking as someone who believes in ghosts[no, people, I do not have evidence or want to argue it because it's impossible to do so], mass delusion is not evidence of anything.

Second - it's "than".

Zombrex

bluewolf wrote:

Speaking as someone who believes in ghosts[no, people, I do not have evidence or want to argue it because it's impossible to do so]

That's it! The wedding is off. OFF I tell's ya!

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

That's it! The wedding is off. OFF I tell's ya!

No! :eek:

Asiaprod

Damn, I was going to make a special effort to come home for that one:(

Funsterdelux

im not going to call myself an Atheist anymore, Im going to call myself a human being end of story