911 Pilots opinion

silverharp

I don't want to get into a big 911 conspiracy descussion. But came across a website something along the lines of pilots for 911 truth. Unless the whole site/s are bogus and use fake bios, it listed several pilots, Photos and what airlines they had work/ed for. The pilots seem to be suspicious that some poorly trained pilots could have hit the towers first time and that the pentigon hit was pushing the envelope of what a commercial arirliner can do.

Just curious if anyone has any opionions especially from a pilots point of view

FlutterinBantam

Must admit the same thought struck me.

To depart BOS en route for the west coast, and divert and make first time hits with sophisticated equipment on the towers.............

Takes a bit of believing...........

m_stan

You 'don't want to get into a big 911 conspiracy descussion' ? Funny. Doesnt look like it from where I'm standing.

What DID happen then ?

silverharp

m_stan wrote:

You 'don't want to get into a big 911 conspiracy descussion' ? Funny. Doesnt look like it from where I'm standing.

What DID happen then ?

I don't know, and don't care to be honest but my curiosity is peaked when a bunch of airline pilots think the story as told is fishy. So my original question was from people who actually fly passanger jets for a living, was there anything unusual about the manovers done? or what is the lowest level of experience needed to fly a jet at a specific target?

below was the website I came across, it was listed in a Guardian artlicle

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

Extract

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC).

Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions.
Article 7/17/05: "The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple." … Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn."…

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying

cp251

Well it just proves pilots can be as stupid as anyone else.

First off the terrorists did train to fly. Big or small they all fly the same. I don't know if the terrorists had a portable GPS or simply tuned in the nearest VOR. The New York terrorists just had to fly to New York and hit the two tallest buildings there on a severe clear day. The Pentagon terrorists simply had to find one of the most distinctive buildings in world. I think the flight 93 terrorists blew it. I suspect they were a bit lost and by the time they sorted themselves out the passengers were in open revolt.

For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying

This is BS, his job was to fly safely and land the thing. He had rules to follow, speeds and altitudes to fly at and ATC to talk to. The terrorists had no such problems. It was a one way trip. It was very similar to flying a sim. Crank up your microsoft sim and try it. You can't miss the WTC.

When are these conspiracy cranks going to give it up?

Captain Chaos

Ah here now FFS, MS Flight Sim is in no way a sim, sorry to burst your bubble. It may model a Cessena close enough, but when it comes to bigger and higher performance aircraft in that sim, it all goes out the window.

cp251

In fact it's crap at modelling the Cessna too. I can never land the FS aircraft. Not sure what the fascination with the MS sim is. I mean it's boring really.

But even 747s are easily to fly, as in bank, climb, descend. The bigger they are the easier it is at a most basic level. That's all they had to do in the end. Line up on their target, slam the throttles forward.

Captain Chaos

I don't want to speculate on all the events and particulars but the Pentagon strike was... well like something from a movie tbh.

Its just the sheer skill to get a 757 that low and level at that speed..... assuming it was a 757, (not digging any deeper:rolleyes:) well, I'd say there is only very few pilots in the world who could have pulled that one off. Hitting the ground floor of a building at near level attitude and not hitting the ground in a medium size airliner at that speed is amazing.

cp251

Go to google earth, type Pentagon DC. It's a big old target right by the river. Easy to find. Point and shoot, simple. What makes you think he was aiming at that particular point. In all probability he was aiming for the centre of the Pentagon and all but missed.
Did a 757 hit the Pentagon? Check out these pictures and this website. Remember there were dozens if not hundreds of witnesses who SAW flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

This is a good site for debunking the stupid conspiracy loonies. There are plenty of others.

robinph

But do we actually know that the Pentagon was their intended target, if their instructions were just fly to Washington and crash into something then it can't be that hard to do. Lots of government buildings around there for them to crash into and it wouldn't really matter which one they hit as the end result is the same.

damo

9-11 conspiracy theory people are absolute morons. The terrorists were trained, im sure they researched the various nav equipment at new yorks airports (vor's etc.) and just flew towards them, when you fly towards new york its pretty difficult to miss MANHATTAN! and then its just a case of steering the plane into the two largest buildings in the world, hardly takes chuck yeager to pull that off. ****in hell

jhegarty

Can you imagine the crazy theories they would have if the whole thing didn't happen live on tv.....

cp251

The Scene: Conspiracy Headquarters (Not in the Pentagon)
The Cast: A secret cabal of the people who really run America and the world, including mastermind G W Bush!

The Plan: The Master planner: 'Here it is guys, the secret plan so we have an excuse to invade Afganistan'. 'And Iraq' pipes up George. 'Be quiet, if you're good and cut taxes to rich people. We might let you invade Iraq'.

'We have four planes hijacked by Arabs who believe they are doing it for Allah and don't expect to die. Thanks Osama, there at the back. He's from Ohio actually, an actor called Chuck Norris. Love your work, Chuck.
Once our guys hijack the planes. We fly them to a secret airfield, unload all the passengers and crew and liquidate them. Then using the latest hi tech radio control equipment, two take off again and fly under remote control to New York where they will be crashed into the World Trade Center. We have placed explosive in the towers to bring them down in case the planes don't work and in any case we need to cover our tracks. WTC7 is also wired to blow because it contains stuff we all want covered up. ha ha.

If that works we won't need the other two airliners. But we'll fire a missile at the Pentagon. We've bribed hundreds of people into saying they saw a plane hit it and anyway we will fake a few photos. This will account for the third plane. For the fourth we'll fake a crash in Pennsylvania.

It's a foolproof plan, no one will ever suspect it was us.'

Would you buy a ticket to a movie with that plot line?

damo

nice script,

yep 9-11 conspiracy theorists are total idiots, one of their strongest claims is that the metal in the world trade centre melts at a certain temperature, and jet fuels burns at a lower temperature. Now that part is true, but what they dont understand is that in order for the metal supports to have weakened and collapsed the metal would not needed to have been anywhere near melting point.

Unbelievable, theyre obviously people who like to live in a fantasy world and believe in outrageous stories - but come on, isnt the true story of extremist religious terrorists who were so disgusted with americas foreign policy and support of israel, that they were willing to hijack planes and fly them into the tallest buildings in the world to cause death and terror on a massive scale all in the name of their god not outrageous enough for them?!?!.....sigh

ArphaRima

A load of horse***te is what I say. I watched a dvd full of those theories with a number of relevant professionals. Engineers, pilots, ex military and otherwise were there. All of us laughed ourselves silly then got angry and then bored.

descended 7,000 feet in two minutes

Let me just say that 3,500 feet per minute is rather easy. Especially at 350+kts. Amateurs make amateurish assumptions without checking the facts, and then ignoring the professionals.
These theories only seem plausible to the most easily led laymen.

oscarBravo

fluffer wrote:

Let me just say that 3,500 feet per minute is rather easy.

Unless I'm mistaken, a 757 can climb at 3,500fpm, never mind descend.