German Ambassador was right!

axer

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lost-in-translation----envoy-refuses-to-back-down-over-remarks-1082350.html

What is wrong with what the German Amabassador said about Ireland? He was 100% right and said it as it is. He should not apologise for his comments.

The Irish government told Germany's ambassador to Ireland that comments he made about the nation were ``inaccurate, misinformed and inappropriate,'' the Department of Foreign Affairs said in a statement.

I think the Department of Foreign Affairs is being a bit touchy on the subject.

Nuttzz

he is right, we should still dance at the crossroads and live off spuds...

El Stuntman

I like his style

although I'd be interested to see what what would happen if the Irish ambassador made a speech in Berlin describing his hosts as "humourless automatons who prance around in psuedo-sadomasoschistic leather outfits slapping each other arses"

at least it would make diplomatic events much more fun

faceman

There have been more articles on this aside from the trashy indo today. here's one that gives better detail.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2469335.ece

Axer wrote:

What is wrong with what the German Amabassador said about Ireland? He was 100% right and said it as it is. He should not apologise for his comments.

Are you being serious? So do you think that the majority of people in this country drives 06/07 cars? Do you believe that our junior ministers are paid more than the german chancellor? Do you believe that german medical consultants would be happy with a salary a 3rd of what irish consultants are paid?

Our german friend went on to comment on the traffic problems with dublin. Wow, dublin has traffic problems? we must be the only capital city in the world with traffic problems. Germany doesnt have traffic problems then? Its a pointless statement. What he should have commented on was the lack of public transport.

He was speaking to an audience of investors/potential investors. Lets not forget that without investment in our country, he cant afford to build roads/hospitals hire doctors etc. We need investment. Applauding a very poor tabloid speech that did not allow for Q&A or debate is nothing to be proud of.

El Stuntman

I think it's a pity he didn't speculate on what would happen to a German Chancellor who accepted large sums of money, in cash, from businessmen while a serving Minister for Finance

that would have been interesting

Nevyn

axer wrote:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lost-in-translation----envoy-refuses-to-back-down-over-remarks-1082350.html

What is wrong with what the German Amabassador said about Ireland? He was 100% right and said it as it is. He should not apologise for his comments.

I think the Department of Foreign Affairs is being a bit touchy on the subject.

It is bad form and inexcusable conduct by the official representative of the germany government esp here in this country.

He should be dismissed and his ambassadorial papers returned to his government.

El Stuntman

Thaedydal wrote:

He should be dismissed and his ambassadorial papers returned to his government.

is that not going a bit far? Does that mean that no diplomat here can never say anything we deem offensive?

does that mean our man in Washington could never criticise US culture?

Fratton Fred

it's bad form alright, I guess the Diplomatic corp in Germany is not very diplomatic :rolleyes:

If it was an Irish business leader standing up and saying those things though, they would be a hero.

axer

faceman wrote:

There have been more articles on this aside from the trashy indo today. here's one that gives better detail.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2469335.ece



Are you being serious? So do you think that the majority of people in this country drives 06/07 cars? Do you believe that our junior ministers are paid more than the german chancellor? Do you believe that german medical consultants would be happy with a salary a 3rd of what irish consultants are paid?

Our german friend went on to comment on the traffic problems with dublin. Wow, dublin has traffic problems? we must be the only capital city in the world with traffic problems. Germany doesnt have traffic problems then? Its a pointless statement. What he should have commented on was the lack of public transport.

He was speaking to an audience of investors/potential investors. Lets not forget that without investment in our country, he cant afford to build roads/hospitals hire doctors etc. We need investment. Applauding a very poor tabloid speech that did not allow for Q&A or debate is nothing to be proud of.

I think most people are missing the point of the thing. He was pointing out that Ireland has mis-managed its wealth. We have had a lot of wealth in the last number of years but yet our basic services are crap. Our transport infrastructure is no good. Our health service is in chaos.

Instead on realising that we have mis-managed our wealth we instead nitpick and say that the ambassador was "inaccurate [and] misinformed".

digitally-yours

axer wrote:

I think most people are missing the point of the thing. He was pointing out that Ireland has mis-managed its wealth. We have had a lot of wealth in the last number of years but yet our basic services are crap. Our transport infrastructure is no good. Our health service is in chaos.

Instead on realising that we have mis-managed our wealth we instead nitpick and say that the ambassador was "inaccurate [and] misinformed".

I agree with you.

but most of the people get emotionally charged and they just jump to wacky conclusions and etc etc

I would say

is he entitled to his opinion ? yes

Do WEST support free speech ? yes

or do we support only speech which is music to our ears ? decide your self!

Double Standards !

Fratton Fred

nice diversionary tactics by the govenrnment?

layke

The truth hurts and at least he had the gonads to stand up and say it rather then the legion of yes-men we have here. We have squandered our wealth and I have no idea where the future will bring us.

No Apology neccissary pal, tell it like it is. I wish I could email him with a letter of support.

axer

layke wrote:

I wish I could email him with a letter of support.

Your wish is granted.

purple'n'gold

Whether one agrees with what the German ambassador said is neither here nor there. The fact is he is the ambassador to this country from Germany, a country we have always had excellent relations with. He was way out of order with his comments and I would not be in the least surprised if he was quietly shifted someplace else.

axer

purplengold wrote:

He was way out of order with his comments

Why?

musiknonstop

I agree with the ambassador. We are a "coarse" society. Gardai are investigating 4 murders after the weekend.

Nevyn

Because this remarks are seen as the germany government slagging off and taking this country to taslk which is so not the done thing.

There are proceedure and protocals and he broke both nevermind good manners at an event at which he was a guest speaker.

Lemming

There are certain niceities that are expected of ambassadorial relations (excluding the obvious instances where relations do not exist, e.g. USA & Iran).

As much as there may have been a grain of truth behind some of what the ambassador said, there was also misrepresentive and damaging sh*t behind the rest of it. The cynic in me can't help but feel the ambassador was dissuading his countrymen so that they might instead put their money inside Germany ....

scorzny

layke wrote:

The truth hurts and at least he had the gonads to stand up and say it rather then the legion of yes-men we have here. We have squandered our wealth.......

Completely aggree.
Why are so many people up in arms??
Most seem to fail to pick up on the points he's making and instead see it as a blatant attack against our country and our people that must be retaliated against at once.
What part of his speech was SO wrong?
I think his defense was a good one 'I use this to get the listeners' attention and to induce them to participate in the question', which if truly was his intention, flawlessly german !!!

Lemming

scorzny wrote:

What part of his speech was SO wrong?

Well put it this way. What part of his speech was SO right, exactly?

I think his defense was a good one 'I use this to get the listeners' attention and to induce them to participate in the question', which if truly was his intention, flawlessly german !!!

Pretty poor defense actually since there was no Q&A afforded, thus there was no ability for those present to query for further elaboration.

So not flawlessly german, but blindingly pig-stupid.

TerryTate

I think he was amazingly accurate, I ddint realise that the rest of europe had noticed how we have become the new English Snobs, and how it is not really a "hundred thousand welcomes" but "gotta keep up with the jones, at all cost", classy nation.

scorzny

Lemming wrote:

Well put it this way. What part of his speech was SO right, exactly?
So not flawlessly german, but blindingly pig-stupid.

That's a bit harsh, many of his points I thought were valid!!
heres some of them I thought were SO right!

'comparably few cars to be seen with the first digit 9'..........TRUE
lets be honest there's a plethora of brand new mercs and bmws on our roads.

''chaotic" hospital waiting lists................TRUE
That must be a fact, even our own politicans (fianna fail or opposition) are always ranting on about it.

'It is well known that more than a few senior doctors in German hospitals would be happy to earn one third of the stated amount'.
I'm not going to label this point true or false, all I'll say is I think the guy probably knows more about his health system and pay rates than anyone on boards.ie

And regarding

Pretty poor defense actually since there was no Q&A afforded, thus there was no ability for those present to query for further elaboration.

That he admitted to being his one 'mistake'...where's the problem now?

stovelid

I have to admit that the story about the 93*(?) car was very funny.

Also he was spot on re: the hospital consultants.

bugler

I'd like to lend my support to the German Ambassador. He has nothing to apologise for. No wonder most politicians are bland and dull, look at the reactions of the precious to a bit of plain speaking. It's so sad your dainty ears were offended by remarks you didn't like.

Ireland is going through standard nouveau-rich delusions. In a few years time we might have our priorities right. Mind you, Consultants are referring to €200,000 as Mickey Mouse money because the country can be obnoxiously expensive to live in. If you want to buy a nice house in Ireland you need a very good wage. We lost the run of ourselves and now we don't want it to be pointed out.

Nevyn

wow you lot really don't get it do you ?

stovelid

bugler wrote:

IConsultants are referring to €200,000 as Mickey Mouse money because the country can be obnoxiously expensive to live in.

I would be willing to take part in a reality experiment, trying to make €200K stretch for a year.

Admittedly, it would be hard but I would enjoy the sacrifice.

bowsie casey

musiknonstop wrote:

I agree with the ambassador. We are a "coarse" society. Gardai are investigating 4 murders after the weekend.

I agree. I think he only articulated what a lot of people feel....good on him I say!

bugler

Thaedydal wrote:

wow you lot really don't get it do you ?

Yes, we know. He's an Ambassador. He shouldn't be saying these things, he is a mouth-piece of the German state. Possibly, we could end up at war over this. And you don't want to fight the Germans.

Pull the rods out, folks.

Lemming

scorzny wrote:

That's a bit harsh, many of his points I thought were valid!!
heres some of them I thought were SO right!

There's a world of difference between having a grain of truth and being "valid".

'comparably few cars to be seen with the first digit 9'..........TRUE
lets be honest there's a plethora of brand new mercs and bmws on our roads.

Really? Tell you what, go drive down an Autobahn and tell me how long it takes before you stop counting the number of mercs and bmws, ferraris, porsches, and lambourginis that you see .....

As for the number of cars with the first digit being 9, since the ambassador is probably strutting his stuff in D4 that'd be par for the bloody obvious course .... He's coming off less intelligent and more thick with each passing moment I think about it. Take alook on autotrader.ie or carzone.ie and you'll find a lot of cars with 9 prefixs up for sale.

Oh, and the last '9' car is now 8 years old. Now, for the revelation bit .... *drum roll' .... those of you with weak bladders may want to sit down for this ... the numbers of '9' cars on the road are only getting smaller.

''chaotic" hospital waiting lists................TRUE
That must be a fact, even our own politicans (fianna fail or opposition) are always ranting on about it.

No argument there

'It is well known that more than a few senior doctors in German hospitals would be happy to earn one third of the stated amount'.
I'm not going to label this point true or false, all I'll say is I think the guy probably knows more about his health system and pay rates than anyone on boards.ie

More than a few eh? how many exactly? And are these senior doctors? or consultants? The problem in the irish system is with consultants who've been allowed run themselves for far too long, not the rank and file doctors.

That he admitted to being his one 'mistake'...where's the problem now?

Well, pretty big mistake since it means that his "exaggerations" have been allowed pass as "fact" and have now landed him in the middle of a diplomatic spat for no other reason than he was too thick to think ahead of what he said.

faceman

scorzny wrote:

That's a bit harsh, many of his points I thought were valid!!
heres some of them I thought were SO right!

'comparably few cars to be seen with the first digit 9'..........TRUE
lets be honest there's a plethora of brand new mercs and bmws on our roads.

has anyone got any stats to prove this is correct? Bare in mind that businesses that provide company cars would fall into this category and do not keep cars older than 3 years (this is the same in most countries.) the individuals who drive the cars dont own them.

wrote:

''chaotic" hospital waiting lists................TRUE
That must be a fact, even our own politicans (fianna fail or opposition) are always ranting on about it.

true, but this is no secret. we need more investment in our health service. How do we invest more? Well, more foreign investment in ireland will help boost tax receipts and thus increase the spending power of the government. the ambassadors audience were investors. What really is his point? He knows what it takes to put the health service back on form.

wrote:

'It is well known that more than a few senior doctors in German hospitals would be happy to earn one third of the stated amount'.
I'm not going to label this point true or false, all I'll say is I think the guy probably knows more about his health system and pay rates than anyone on boards.ie

I dont know the goin rate for a medical consultant in germany but a third of what is paid here is not accurate. Given the ambassador reckons our junior ministers are paid more than the german chancellor, i certainly take his comment with a pinch of salt.

Its worth pointing out that emmigration of medical personnel from germany is rather high. Germany was recognised at one stage of having a surplus of 6,000 medical consultants. That obviously going to influence salarys. Therefore we're not comparing like with like.

wrote:

And regarding

That he admitted to being his one 'mistake'...where's the problem now?

quite a massive mistake to make particular when he knew he was going to controversial. He's an ambassador, and likewise is expected to provide more detailed points and less sensationlised tabloid statements.

mjquinno

"It would be like me starting off with the sinking of the Lusitania, going on to Stalingrad and then the Third Reich and giving that as a sort of potted history of the success of Germany," Mr Mitchell said of events during the two world wars.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0917/breaking65.htm

Country isnt perfect and everyone is allowed there opinion but i think gay put that opinion in context. Im not fine gale supporter before you start