Anselmo's white pride speeches on Youtube

nij

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I'm proud of who I am, I am white... Am I a racist? In nij's eyes I am... Even though I most certainly am not.

I'm not sure I understand that. Are saying you are proud of who you are AND you happen to be white, or you are proud of who you are BECAUSE of being white? Very different statements.

Let's imagine you said you were proud of being white. If that's the case, my question to you would be, "Why?". I don't understand where the sense of pride lies. Equally, if you said you were proud to be black, I'd also ask why, but given the state of the world we live in, and given recent history (black civil rights, and they reasons I mentioned previously in the debate), I might have some clue as to why.

Considering American history, the white pride concept has undeniably racist undertones, whereas black pride does not, and is more of an 'up yours' to RACISTS. You see the difference? The whole 'white pride = black pride' argument may look plausible in a hypothetical world with a history of no more than 20 years, but we must get real here.

cournioni

Mordeth wrote:

yeah, all black people are multi million selling rap artists

Yeah and all white people are multi millionaires where they are in charge of blacks and asians... :rolleyes:

cournioni

nij wrote:

I'm not sure I understand that. Are saying you are proud of who you are AND you happen to be white, or you are proud of who you are BECAUSE of being white? Very different statements.

Let's imagine you said you were proud of being white. If that's the case, my question to you would be, "Why?". I don't understand where the sense of pride lies. Equally, if you said you were proud to be black, I'd also ask why, but given the state of the world we live in, and given recent history (black civil rights, and they reasons I mentioned previously in the debate), I might have some clue as to why.

Considering American history, the white pride concept has undeniably racist undertones, whereas black pride does not, and is more of an 'up yours' to RACISTS. You see the difference? The whole 'white pride = black pride' argument may look plausible in a hypothetical world with a history of no more than 20 years, but we must get real here.

Absolute nonsense... "Up yours" to the racists? That is laughable. Where are you getting this information from? Sounds like a wives tale to me. How about a white person giving an "up yours" to people who are being racist towards them? A white person that is a minority... Would that be acceptable to you?

Lets just say for the sake of it that I am proud of being white because of all of the things we have invented and created as white people... Is there something wrong with that? Not really, unless you take it from the point of view that we are in competition with other races, which is the point of view that you'll take no doubt. But if black people are so proud of being black, what is wrong with white people being so proud of those achievements?

Your posts stink of hypocrisy, and over political correctness which gives these guys the platform to be racist towards white folk to the extent that we cannot defend ourselves without being a racist. Again, "reverse descrimination".

MoominPapa

It needs to be said again, if the white american experience was similar to the black american experience than what this half wit was saying would have credence, although, the medium being the message, saying in in front of a baying crowd is still demogogary. If it was on a round table discussion it would be totally different.
This is an american race issue, it has nothing to do with europe or anywhere else.
There are more black americans in jail than have degrees, the ratios black solders to officers, citizens to police officers, politicians, company board members etc if pitiful. So let them have their black pride/power they need it.
Expressions of white peoples pride normally descend into Irish american pride, Italian american pride, WASP pride, Scots/Irish pride, and so on. Blacks were robbed of their nationhood and therefore fall back on the blanket Black Pride label.
For people to jump on the PC bashing bandwagon when this difference is raised is about as intellectually honest as saying "before I slag them off let me assure you I have lots of friends in the gay/traveler/gypsy community but..."

cournioni

MoominPapa wrote:

It needs to be said again, if the white american experience was similar to the black american experience than what this half wit was saying would have credence, although, the medium being the message, saying in in front of a baying crowd is still demogogary. If it was on a round table discussion it would be totally different.
This is an american race issue, it has nothing to do with europe or anywhere else.
There are more black americans in jail than have degrees, the ratios black solders to officers, citizens to police officers, politicians, company board members etc if pitiful. So let them have their black pride/power they need it.
Expressions of white peoples pride normally descend into Irish american pride, Italian american pride, WASP pride, Scots/Irish pride, and so on. Blacks were robbed of their nationhood and therefore fall back on the blanket Black Pride label.
For people to jump on the PC bashing bandwagon when this difference is raised is about as intellectually honest as saying "before I slag them off let me assure you I have lots of friends in the gay/traveler/gypsy community but..."

Let black people have their pride for sure, but don't let them take away other peoples pride by spitting in their faces and calling them racists. I think if all people were proud of who they were (not necessarily their colour) the world would be a better, more confident place.

Pride is ok with me, hypocrisy isn't. Also I wouldn't exactly go as far to say that the crowd was "baying". Anselmo is simply highlighting the hypocrisy of it all and making a point. He isn't telling anybody to take action, merely to tell people to be proud of who they are and to ignore the medias reverse discrimination towards white people.

Karl Hungus

nij wrote:

the white pride concept has undeniably racist undertones, whereas black pride does not

Are you ****ing serious?

Because with racist bigots like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton flying the flag of hatred high under the pretence of black pride and civil rights, you'd have to be seriously deluded to think that black pride has no racist undertones. And Jackson and Sharpton are mainstream public figures.

but we must get real here.

:rolleyes:

MoominPapa

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Let black people have their pride for sure, but don't let them take away other peoples pride by spitting in their faces and calling them racists. I think if all people were proud of who they were (not necessarily their colour) the world would be a better, more confident place.

Pride is ok with me, hypocrisy isn't.

You're conveniently ignoring my point. Exclusive white pride is generally, and correctly in my view, regarded with suspicion at best. Blacks in the states cannot decompose their nationalism in the way whites can(Irish, Italian, WASP etc) . Therefor Black Pride <> White Pride.

cournioni

African pride?

MoominPapa

You're still not getting it. What black american can say which nation or tribe they're ancestors were taken from when enslaved? They are allowed to lump themselves together through this shared ancestral experience, whites aren't IMHO

nij

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Absolute nonsense... "Up yours" to the racists? That is laughable. Where are you getting this information from? Sounds like a wives tale to me. How about a white person giving an "up yours" to people who are being racist towards them? A white person that is a minority... Would that be acceptable to you?

Yes, just like Gay Pride can serve as an 'up yours' to homophobes. Not that there's any substantial 'black pride movement'. It would be vastly less appropriate for a white majority to say 'up yours' to the blacks in the form of white pride - that's what they've been doing for so long, and it's partly why it is not morally unjust for blacks to say, "Well, maybe it's our turn for pride". It's baffling how you could not see this. There's a reason why there are no 'heterosexual pride' events.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Lets just say for the sake of it that I am proud of being white because of all of the things we have invented and created as white people... Is there something wrong with that? Not really, unless you take it from the point of view that we are in competition with other races, which is the point of view that you'll take no doubt. But if black people are so proud of being black, what is wrong with white people being so proud of those achievements?

You see that's just it, you are not saying you are proud of human achievement, you are being proud of whiteness. Why not just say you're proud of being Irish? That's far less sinister.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Your posts stink of hypocrisy, and over political correctness which gives these guys the platform to be racist towards white folk...

Now that's the kind of rhetoric that I'd expect from a champion of white pride. Let's not go into what your posts 'stink' of, because that's pretty evident. You can't even bring yourself to admit that Anselmo made a big mistake with this tirade.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

...white folk to the extent that we cannot defend ourselves without being a racist. Again, "reverse descrimination".

Did you even read any of my previous posts, or just skim through? We don't live in an ideal and equal world, and talking about pride in the white race is not a defense against racism, it is fuel for it. Read my previous posts to find out why.

If you claim that there is no injustice towards blacks, or no major imbalance of power, you aren't being honest.

cournioni

They can't say which nation or tribe their ancestors were taken from, fair enough. But I think you'll find that the majority of black peoples ancestors come from Africa am I right? What is wrong with "lumping themselves" under the African pride title? I don't think anyone would argue with that.

If that was the case, then I think that the White Pride title would be unacceptable. As it is Black pride, I think it is a bit hypocritical to say that White pride is unacceptable.

MoominPapa

PORNAPSTER wrote:

They can't say which nation or tribe their ancestors were taken from, fair enough. But I think you'll find that the majority of black peoples ancestors come from Africa am I right? What is wrong with "lumping themselves" under the African pride title? I don't think anyone would argue with that.

If that was the case, then I think that the White Pride title would be unacceptable. As it is Black pride, I think it is a bit hypocritical to say that White pride is unacceptable.

This post represents a level of ignorance I find staggering