It's all about the Game...

Fozzy

Minto wrote:

First, did any of ye see this in the help desk forum?
http://http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055138160&referrerid=59211

Haha, I didn't see that, doesn't look like he learned anything

Minto wrote:

I've just watched the segment with Triple H 'burying' all these guys. I really don't think it was as bad as a lot of people are saying. Beating Cade and Murdoch was to be expected, thats how these matches are supposed to be booked, nobody complained this much when Cena and CANDICE beat Cade/Murdoch and Umaga!

I didn't mind as much when Cena and Candice won, although I did think it was pretty stupid. But in that case it was Cena winning, someone who's been putting on some pretty good matches. HHH buried the four guys who put on the best match at the ppv, and he hasn't been performing to a higher standard than those guys at all. Monday night was the time to build those two tag teams up and give their characters some more depth, because they showed that they can deliver. But they were put in a worse situation than anyone else on the show

I think that article really put it well when saying that he'll never be like Flair. Flair was always putting guys over because he knew that no matter what, he still had the talent to be a top guy. The likes of Sting would be nothing today if it weren't for Flair. But HHH seems to be too insecure to even give guys a rub at times

I'm sure if the creative team came up with this show and HHH didn't agree with it then he could have changed it in some way. Even if it was just allowing London & Kendrick to get a rub by getting along with him and tagging with him in a 6-man match, it would have been something. They'll probably do that 6-man tag match at some stage now anyway, and London & Kendrick will look like intimidated idiots teaming up with HHH

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

Explain that one to me. I would LOVE tag team wrestling to mean something again. But when you do things like they did on Monday, you piss on it. He's basically buried the division and did the same last year too.

To be fair here, Tag teams haven't meant a damn thing since the early 90s when you had the likes of Demolition, The Hart Foundation, The Rockers, The Road Warriors, The Nasty Boys, this could go on forever.

But from about the end of 92 onwards, tag teams were basically two random guys thrown together for no apparent reason only to be purposely split for parallel singles pushes.

WWE once had an abundance of tag teams, don't believe me?, check out the 20 man tag team survivor series matches in 87 and 88.

VR!

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

To be fair here, Tag teams haven't meant a damn thing since the early 90s when you had the likes of Demolition, The Hart Foundation, The Rockers, The Road Warriors, The Nasty Boys, this could go on forever.

The tag belts meant something during the Edge/Christian, Hardys and Dudleys period lasting about 2 years.

The tag belts meant something pretty important for about 6 months on Smackdown when you had Edge/Rey, Benoit/Angle and the Guerros feuding.

I don't think things will go back to the late 1980's in terms of the importance of the tag division. But that doesn't mean they have to go to the other extreme were it's basically portrayed as a waste of time.

Minto

Rite, we are never gonna agree on this! I've got college in the morning, so I'm gonna leave ye all with this thought, would ye honestly not do the same as Triple H if you were in his position, I can say I defo would! So let he who is with out sin....

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

WWE once had an abundance of tag teams, don't believe me?, check out the 20 man tag team survivor series matches in 87 and 88.

When the Hardy's won the tag titles this year, it was in a 20-team battle royal or something, wasn't it? That was shocking, I thought they'd barely have enough for a 10-team one!

The thing that really gets me about this though is that it's not just the top two tag teams, it's also the guys who had the best ppv match, like I've said

Vince135792003

Minto wrote:

would ye honestly not do the same as Triple H if you were in his position,

What did he gain from it? He'll be no more over from it than he was before it happened.

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote:

When the Hardy's won the tag titles this year, it was in a 20-team battle royal or something, wasn't it? That was shocking, I thought they'd barely have enough for a 10-team one!

But a lot of them weren't proper tag teams tho. A lot of them were just two singles guys thrown together after being established singles guys.

VR!

rossie1977

the tag-team division in the WWE went through a very rough period in the mid 1990s but between 2000-2002 it was as good as it has ever been imo with the dudleys, hardys, edge/christian, APA, billy and chuck and a whole load of others.

The WWE tag-team division has struggled somewhat since those two god-awful fatal-fourways at WM20

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote:

The WWE tag-team division has struggled somewhat since those two god-awful fatal-fourways at WM20

They were f*ck ugly and a piss poor attempt to get as many people on the card. Even Jindrak and Cade got a wrestlemania payoff for the lack of some other team to throw in there!

VR!

DerekSmalls

validreasoning! wrote:

They were f*ck ugly and a piss poor attempt to get as many people on the card. Even Jindrak and Cade got a wrestlemania payoff for the lack of some other team to throw in there!

VR!

I remember that, the weeks leading up to WMXX, they were hyping it up as the greatest, biggest WM ever, being "20 years in the making" and all...... I thought those two tag matches really dragged down the quality of the whole card, as they were complete balls. The tag division has been worthless since then IMO. At least they havn't given ECW any tag belts, 3 tag belts in WWE would be serious over-kill!

ShawnRaven

DerekSmalls wrote:

I remember that, the weeks leading up to WMXX, they were hyping it up as the greatest, biggest WM ever, being "20 years in the making" and all...... I thought those two tag matches really dragged down the quality of the whole card, as they were complete balls. The tag division has been worthless since then IMO. At least they havn't given ECW any tag belts, 3 tag belts in WWE would be serious over-kill!

That mania was hyped up so much that i really couldn't get into it. The only match i really enjoyed out of the entire four hours was Eddie v Angle. The rest i probably wouldn't watch again.

VR!

DerekSmalls

Not a fan of H-Benoit-HBK? Thought it was good myself, pretty sucky ending though, considering it was a WM Main event...

And yeah, it was ridiculously over-hyped!!!

Vince135792003

DerekSmalls wrote:

Not a fan of H-Benoit-HBK? Thought it was good myself, pretty sucky ending though, considering it was a WM Main event...

I loved the ending. Sadly, not anymore though.

ShawnRaven

DerekSmalls wrote:

Not a fan of H-Benoit-HBK? Thought it was good myself, pretty sucky ending though, considering it was a WM Main event...

And yeah, it was ridiculously over-hyped!!!

Was never a huge Benoit fan and i was already sick of HHH v HBK by that stage.

VR!

DerekSmalls

Vince135792003 wrote:

I loved the ending. Sadly, not anymore though.

I meant the ending to the match itself, not the ending to the PPV with Benoit and Eddie in the ring. That part was great, yeah, but like you said, not anymore. Ending to the match was very anti-climatic IMO.

krudler

how was benoit finally getting the big win by making HHH tap,clean, in the middle of the ring in madison square garden at wrestlemania 20 after a great main event anticlimatic?!?!

ShawnRaven

Because 1) everyone knew Benoit was going over anyway and 2) the finish felt like it had little or no build to it. It was like blink and it happened.

VR!

flahavaj

validreasoning! wrote:

Because 1) everyone knew Benoit was going over anyway and 2) the finish felt like it had little or no build to it. It was like blink and it happened.

VR!

I wouldn't necessarily agree that the finish was out of nowhere. They told the story that HHH and HBK, despite their animosity, worked together to put Benoit out of the match by superplexing him through the table, then returned to he ring to have it out between them. Benoit recovers, makes it back to the ring and gets the win against the odds t a masive ovation. Not a bad build in my opinion. Generally I'm not a fan of triple threats but if you're gonna have one this was as good as they can be IMO.

ShawnRaven

Meh, call em old fashioned, but Mania should never end on anything other than a 1 v 1. I hated it when they did it in 2000, and didn't think much of it again in 2004.

VR!

gimmick

Just going back on topic, found this on another site. Im pretty sure some will agree with it entirely, other, like myself will agree with it partially. Pretty long, but a decent read

Triple H: The Game Remains The Same

njguy316@yahoo.com

It’s good to know that while he was away from the ring
for seven months being rebuilt, getting bigger,
stronger, faster, and better than he was before, that
Triple H didn’t forget how to do his patented bury job
on the midcard wrestlers on Raw. The seasons might
change, people may come and go, and the years may tick
off the calendar…but one thing will always remain the
same. Nobody knows how to bury other wrestlers better
than Triple H. He’s turned it into a way of life.

When he gets inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 20
years or whatever, they can list that trait right up
there with all the World Titles he’s won, all the
PPV’s he’s main evented, and all the money he’s made.
Because for all of those positive accomplishments he’s
had in his career, his selfish, destructive,
self-serving, arrogant, dickish behavior in burying
and squashing other wrestlers will be the one thing
he’s perhaps remembered for most. Many years from now
when the history of this era of professional wrestling
is written, people are going to say, "That Triple H,
yeah he won the World Title 42 times, but man what an
overbearing asshole he was. He could have used his
name and star power to help make so many new stars,
and instead all he ever did was look out for himself,
and his own interests."

That, ladies and gentlemen, describes Triple H
perfectly. And the thing is, I already knew that,
because it’s been something I’ve written about so many
times over the past 4 ½ years I’ve been doing this
column. The way Triple H conducts himself is not a
secret to anyone that has been following the wrestling
business for any length of time. But for some reason,
I had a momentary lapse in judgment, because I wanted
to give him the benefit of the doubt when he returned
a few weeks ago from his latest injury.

For some reason, I had the bizarre notion that maybe
Triple H would have learned something during his seven
months away, and saw how much the WWE roster is in
dire need of new stars being created. I had hoped
that maybe being away from the product for a while,
and watching from afar, would perhaps give him a
different perspective on things. But who the hell was
I kidding? This is Triple H we’re talking about here.
He doesn’t give a **** about new stars being created,
or the long-term health of the company. He only cares
about protecting his spot, getting himself over, and
worrying about his own storylines. Everyone else can
fend for themselves.

We’ve heard from him many times about how the younger
guys aren’t going to have their spots handed to them,
and how they have to earn their spots, and all of that
nonsense. And my question in response to that is how
can anyone possibly earn a spot when they have a
scumbag like that going out of his way to bury lower
card guys, and big footing them back down the card?
If anyone wonders why very few guys on the WWE midcard
are over, it’s because nobody has bothered to help
them get over.

The wrestlers themselves can only do so much. You can
go out and tear the house down, have a great match,
and get the people really behind you. But when that
match is over, it means absolutely nothing if it’s not
followed up properly, and the wrestler or wrestlers
aren’t given some character development, mic time, and
a storyline to try and get over. Those are the basic
elements that any and every wrestler needs to get over
with the crowd, I don’t care if you’re talking about
WWE, or the indy promotion running the local high
school in your home town. Every brand of wrestling is
built on those foundations, and when you’re in charge
of putting a show together, and you don’t give the
wrestlers those things, then they’re not going to get
over. Then it becomes, "we can’t push so and so,
because he’s not over." Why isn’t he over? Look in
the mirror.

It makes it that much more difficult to get over when
you have someone like Triple H pulling what he pulled
this past Monday on Raw. I’ve never seen anyone bury
five guys in one segment. It was downright nauseating
to watch. Triple H was booked in a Handicap Match
against the World Tag Team Champions, Lance Cade and
Trevor Murdoch. Because god knows we haven’t seen
enough Handicap Matches on WWE programming over the
past two years. As soon as the match was announced,
you didn’t even have to think about it, you already
knew what was going to happen. Which is a statement
that could be said about a lot of WWE booking these
days, unfortunately.

If you said, "Triple H puts up a valiant fight, but
Carlito comes down and interferes, and the numbers
game is too much for him to overcome, and he loses the
match", you lost! That would have been a finish I
could live with. I wouldn’t have expected Triple H to
put over the tag team champs clean in a 2 on 1 match,
that would simply be asking for too much. But at
least if Carlito came down, distracted HHH or
whatever, and Cade or Murdoch got the pin, at least
something would have been accomplished. Cade and
Murdoch would have gotten a win, albeit a tainted
victory, over Triple H, and they could have put some
heat on the HHH/Carlito "Steel Cage Match" this coming
Monday in Milwaukee.

At least in that instance there would have been a
valid storyline reason for them having a cage match.
Carlito cost HHH a match, and he wants revenge. A
simple, basic wrestling premise. Instead what we got
was HHH selling almost nothing for either guy, and
then pinning Cade clean with a spinebuster in about a
seven minute match. Lance Cade wasn’t even worthy of
a Pedigree, you see. Then Carlito jumped in the ring,
and the three heels proceeded to beatdown HHH for
about 30 seconds. He sold a little for that, since
you know, he had three men attacking him. Paul London
and Brian Kendrick then ran down to make the save,
symbolizing that they were continuing their feud with
Cade and Murdoch, and potentially getting the rub of
being on the same side as HHH. He got up, and of
course gave Carlito a spinebuster. He sold for 30
seconds, he had to re-establish his dominance. Why
should anyone care about this cage match they’re
having on Raw, when we already know what’s going to
happen?

Brian Kendrick put his hand on HHH, and you could see hum
subtly push his hand away, as if to say "How dare you
touch me, I’m a superstar, and you’re a lowly
midcarder." I’m sure he had a problem with being
saved in storyline by two guys that maybe weigh a buck
75 soaking wet. They went on the turnbuckles, and did
their flip into the ring gimmick, and extended their
hands. HHH shook their hands in a condescending
fashion.

Now if the segment ended there, I would have still
been alright with it, because they could have easily
booked a six-man tag team match off this segment for
next week. London and Kendrick could have gotten the
rub of tagging with HHH, which would have really given
them some nice momentum. See, they’re one of those
groups I talked about earlier. They always have good
matches, they are often in the best or second best
match on the card on every Raw house show or live
event. But they haven’t been given any storyline, or
any character development. The people haven’t been
given a reason to care about them, and they’re not
over nearly to the level they should be. So an
association with HHH even for one week would have
given them a boost, and I wouldn’t have been so down
on this.

But none of that happened, because that would have
actually made sense, and required HHH to care about
getting someone other than himself over. Instead he
dropped them both with a Pedigree in the middle of the
ring, and shrugged his shoulders, "oh well." Jim Ross
rambled on about Triple H not needing anyone’s help,
and about him being his own man. Some fans cheered
it, but most of them didn’t react, because they didn’t
know how to react. It didn’t get the huge pop that
I’m sure HHH imagined it would. And the reason for
that is it was unnecessary, and it accomplished
nothing. Nothing other than being yet another massive
ego stroke for the man that is so insecure, that he
has to constantly be re-enforced, and make sure
everyone knows that he’s the alpha male in the
company.

He does this because he probably knows deep down
inside what all of us have known for a while, and
that’s the fact that he hasn’t been a good worker
since that first quad tear in May 2001. He has never
been the same since. He was able to get by on name
and reputation, and the occasional great match from
2002 to January 2007. Then he tore the other quad.
Now he’s back even more depleted than he was before.
He can no longer do the things he used to do in the
ring, which is I suppose why he’s become a comedic
figure over the past few years. He’s trying to
overcompensate for what he can no longer do in the
ring, and that’s why he protects his spot like a
mother lion protecting her cubs.

But what he seems to forget is that if you bury
everyone, and don’t put anyone over, then who are you
going to have to feud with? The only way for a feud
to work is if there is a give and take among the
participants. If it’s one person dominating
everything, and always getting the upper hand, then
who is going to be interested in seeing that? Since
he’s been back he mowed right through King Booker, he
beat him like a drum at Summerslam, and that was the
end of the feud. He’s in the process of mowing down
Carlito, with a victory "against all odds" at
Unforgiven, and then certainly in the cage match this
Monday. He’s given Carlito nothing in the feud.
Carlito was something to keep him busy until Umaga
comes back from his suspension, and then when that
happens, he’ll bulldoze right over "The Samoan
Bulldozer."

All of this self-serving behavior comes down to one
factor. He wants everyone to think he’s better than
Ric Flair. He wants everyone to think he’s a bigger
star than Steve Austin, The Rock, or Hulk Hogan. He
wants to be mentioned in the same sentence as them
when people talk about the all-time greats in WWE and
wrestling history. I realize that the McMahon’s own
wrestling, and by virtue of that they get to rewrite
history to fit their own needs. I know that as the
years go by, and after Vince retires, dies, or
whatever the case might be, and the Stephanie/HHH team
takes over the day to day operations of the company,
that HHH will be positioned as the greatest ever. And
if you tell enough people something over and over
again, eventually a good portion of them will start to
believe it.

But let me tell you something, Hunter. You can win as
many World Titles as you want, you can main event as
many Wrestlemania’s as you want, and you can line up
the entire WWE roster and give every single one of
them the Pedigree right in the middle of the ring.
You will never be better than Ric Flair, and you will
never be a bigger star than Austin, Hogan, or The
Rock. And that is a wrestling history that you can’t
ignore, and you can’t rewrite, as hard as you might
try.

Thanks for reading. Until next week, take care and be
well.

You can send feedback to: njguy316@yahoo.com

Dan Wahlers

Kid Nothing

that was already posted earlier but it's a good read anyway. HHH up to his old tricks again last night

blackbelt

HHH is trying to surpass Ric Flair as far as World Titles is concerned.Fans associate Ric Flair as a sixteen time world champ and HHH is looking to be associated with this feat in the next stages of his career.

Lets look at the history of HHH from 2000 onwards.

2000. Y2J beats HHH cleanly (subject to debate from the ref counting fast) and the belt is handed back later that evening.To me,it would have made perfect sense for this to have happened earlier and to have Y2J hold the title for a few weeks but this was in the middle of Austin returning as an enforcer and Rock challenging at Backlash.

Fast forward to 2001.If my memory bank is correct,HHH buries Jeff Hardy who is hugely over at this stage for the IC belt.Austin was the top guy but we couldn't have HHH without a belt.So to give "The Game" more limelight,he had to have some gold.Then he injures himself.

2002.HHH returns and wins the Rumble in an anti-climax RR when the roster was at its strongest since 1999.Perfect,Godfather,Val Venis and Goldust are back and it ends with HHH eliminating KUrt Angle with relative ease.After doing one or two jobs back to Angle,HHH gets past Angle again to headline WM18.Jericho who flourished as a heel champion has to job to HHH and HHH is champ again.

HHH then jobs to Hulk Hogan as Hulkamania is running wild and the clash of the egos begin.While the fans are happy enough to see Hogan as champ,a few months later the favour is returned before HHH turns heel again.HHH is then gift wrapped the title after not competing in a match or tournament.

2003,mid-carders like Hurricane are crushed and Kane becomes a joke after losing to HHH and his mask.Lets be honest but when was the last time anybody took Kane seriously after he lost the mask?In the meantime,Booker T who gets some pinfalls over HHH then jobs to HHH at Mania 19 in a gruelling match.Booker was more over at this stage but lucky for him,the match itself puts him over.

Then Scott Steiner returns.After a mickey mouse feud,Scott Steiner finds himself jobbing to HHH.I find it strange how a well established former WWF and WCW star is rushed into this predicament despite being a muscley freak and top heel in the NWO.

Then Goldberg joins WWE.After defeating The Rock,this feud follows and Goldberg eventually gets the belt.2-3 months later,HHH wins the title back from Goldberg.HHH is put over once again.Then Michaels wins the Elimination Chamber for the title and one month later,HHH beats HBK for the title.

2004,HHH does some jobs to Shelton Benjamin but somehow,Shelton does not get a further push...strange.
HHH loses the triple threat at WM20.Randy Orton wins the title at Summerslam against Benoit who took it from HHH.Randy Ortons title reign lasts a month maximum.2005 sees Batista being put over.Not unusual as HBK and Batista are HHH mates.Since then HHH hasn't held the title.He puts over Cena at WM 22 and a breath of fresh air when he turns face shortly after.

2007,HHH returns from another injury to bury Booker T and is in the process of burying Carlito and as seen on Raw,now London and Kendrick.His next victim will be Umaga and then Orton again as it looks now.

Even though he hasn't had the title since 2005,he has continued to walk over up and coming stars.The tag team division was made a mockery of and who knows what he would do if he was on Smackdown.The CW division would be in jeopardy too I'd imagine.

Also interesting to note is SOS Sheamus O Shaunessy.As SOS and HHH have the same beard style,when/if SOS is called up to the main roster,will HHH demand SOS change his look to suit HHH?...time will tell.

blackbelt

HHH is trying to surpass Ric Flair as far as World Titles is concerned.Fans associate Ric Flair as a sixteen time world champ and HHH is looking to be associated with this feat in the next stages of his career.

Lets look at the history of HHH from 2000 onwards.

2000. Y2J beats HHH cleanly (subject to debate from the ref counting fast) and the belt is handed back later that evening.To me,it would have made perfect sense for this to have happened earlier and to have Y2J hold the title for a few weeks but this was in the middle of Austin returning as an enforcer and Rock challenging at Backlash.

Fast forward to 2001.If my memory bank is correct,HHH buries Jeff Hardy who is hugely over at this stage for the IC belt.Austin was the top guy but we couldn't have HHH without a belt.So to give "The Game" more limelight,he had to have some gold.Then he injures himself.

2002.HHH returns and wins the Rumble in an anti-climax RR when the roster was at its strongest since 1999.Perfect,Godfather,Val Venis and Goldust are back and it ends with HHH eliminating KUrt Angle with relative ease.After doing one or two jobs back to Angle,HHH gets past Angle again to headline WM18.Jericho who flourished as a heel champion has to job to HHH and HHH is champ again.

HHH then jobs to Hulk Hogan as Hulkamania is running wild and the clash of the egos begin.While the fans are happy enough to see Hogan as champ,a few months later the favour is returned before HHH turns heel again.HHH is then gift wrapped the title after not competing in a match or tournament.

2003,mid-carders like Hurricane are crushed and Kane becomes a joke after losing to HHH and his mask.Lets be honest but when was the last time anybody took Kane seriously after he lost the mask?In the meantime,Booker T who gets some pinfalls over HHH then jobs to HHH at Mania 19 in a gruelling match.Booker was more over at this stage but lucky for him,the match itself puts him over.

Then Scott Steiner returns.After a mickey mouse feud,Scott Steiner finds himself jobbing to HHH.I find it strange how a well established former WWF and WCW star is rushed into this predicament despite being a muscley freak and top heel in the NWO.

Then Goldberg joins WWE.After defeating The Rock,this feud follows and Goldberg eventually gets the belt.2-3 months later,HHH wins the title back from Goldberg.HHH is put over once again.Then Michaels wins the Elimination Chamber for the title and one month later,HHH beats HBK for the title.

2004,HHH does some jobs to Shelton Benjamin but somehow,Shelton does not get a further push...strange.
HHH loses the triple threat at WM20.Randy Orton wins the title at Summerslam against Benoit who took it from HHH.Randy Ortons title reign lasts a month maximum.2005 sees Batista being put over.Not unusual as HBK and Batista are HHH mates.Since then HHH hasn't held the title.He puts over Cena at WM 22 and a breath of fresh air when he turns face shortly after.

2007,HHH returns from another injury to bury Booker T and is in the process of burying Carlito and as seen on Raw,now London and Kendrick.His next victim will be Umaga and then Orton again as it looks now.

Even though he hasn't had the title since 2005,he has continued to walk over up and coming stars.The tag team division was made a mockery of and who knows what he would do if he was on Smackdown.The CW division would be in jeopardy too I'd imagine.

Also interesting to note is SOS Sheamus O Shaunessy.As SOS and HHH have the same beard style,when/if SOS is called up to the main roster,will HHH demand SOS change his look to suit HHH?...time will tell.

Tricity Bendix

blackbelt wrote:

2000. Y2J beats HHH cleanly (subject to debate from the ref counting fast) and the belt is handed back later that evening.To me,it would have made perfect sense for this to have happened earlier and to have Y2J hold the title for a few weeks but this was in the middle of Austin returning as an enforcer and Rock challenging at Backlash.

In that title match, HHH put over Jericho as much as possible in order for him to retain (well, not quite retain, but illegitimately lose and then rightfully regain) the title. It was an absolutely fantastic match that got Jericho over as a contender and got HHH over as an asshole. The fact is that The Rock was the number one face at the time, and his epic battle with HHH was the best the company could offer at the time. Giving Jericho a full run with the belt would have blown the field wide open, and taint The Rock's eventual victory over HHH.

Fast forward to 2001.If my memory bank is correct,HHH buries Jeff Hardy who is hugely over at this stage for the IC belt.Austin was the top guy but we couldn't have HHH without a belt.So to give "The Game" more limelight,he had to have some gold.Then he injures himself.

Given that they were being sold as 'The Power Trip', it makes some sense that HHH and Austin were soaking up all the titles. Who knows how this story would have worked out if Hunter hadn't received that freak injury. I think its unfair to judge without knowing where this story was leading.

Oh, and Trips did drop the IC title to Kane, which helped get him over hugely.

2002.HHH returns and wins the Rumble in an anti-climax RR when the roster was at its strongest since 1999.Perfect,Godfather,Val Venis and Goldust are back and it ends with HHH eliminating KUrt Angle with relative ease.After doing one or two jobs back to Angle,HHH gets past Angle again to headline WM18.Jericho who flourished as a heel champion has to job to HHH and HHH is champ again.

I don't know what Perfect, The Godfather, Val Venus and Goldust have to do with the ending of the Royal Rumble. Only Perfect among them could have been a contender, and he was well past his peak. Trips winning the Royal Rumble might have been very obvious, but it did set him up against Y2J, with whom they could very easily create a good feud with history and passion behind it and with whom it was known HHH could have a good match. Now that didn't happen, which was unfortunate, but you can't get it right all of the time.

2003,mid-carders like Hurricane are crushed and Kane becomes a joke after losing to HHH and his mask.Lets be honest but when was the last time anybody took Kane seriously after he lost the mask?In the meantime,Booker T who gets some pinfalls over HHH then jobs to HHH at Mania 19 in a gruelling match.Booker was more over at this stage but lucky for him,the match itself puts him over.

Kane losing his mask was a decision made by creative, not HHH. I thought HHH did a good job by facing off against Kane. Everyone knew Kane was going to have to give it his all if he wanted to keep his mask, but by losing to the number one guy (who had the backing of evolution) it at least made him look not so weak.

As for Booker T, I'm actually going to disagree with you and say that the ending of the match did Booker no favors, which was Hunter's fault entirely.

Then Scott Steiner returns.After a mickey mouse feud,Scott Steiner finds himself jobbing to HHH.I find it strange how a well established former WWF and WCW star is rushed into this predicament despite being a muscley freak and top heel in the NWO.

The Steiner feud was terrible. From beginning to end. But then, I don't think Steiner should have been let anywhere near the World Title.

Shelton does not get a further push...strange.

Was this Hunter's fault? Trips losing to Shelton got him over in a huge way, considering he had no credibility as a singles guy or a face.


While I'm not doubting that HHH is self-serving, nor that he pulls strings to put himself over more than the company, nor that he burries people unnecessarily (although I would like to point out he did once lose to D'Von during his priest phase), nor that he is an asshole. But some historical perspective is needed here. The picture is not pure black and white.

Also interesting to note is SOS Sheamus O Shaunessy.As SOS and HHH have the same beard style,when/if SOS is called up to the main roster,will HHH demand SOS change his look to suit HHH?...time will tell.

That isn't an interesting note. Not in the slightest.

blackbelt

I must note that I am not into wrestling as I once was so my memory of past events is muddled but I saw HHH laying out London and Kendrick and it did nothing for them or HHH whilst making no sense either.If it was an attempt for HHH to get over or get a pop,one would have to ponder why this particular course of action was chosen by HHH....it just made no sense.

I think it is interesting to note.Some wrestlers get very snippy about their image and indeed some wrestlers get worked up about other wrestlers image and presentation.I remember Billy Jack Haynes shoot interview where he rips into Hulk Hogan for stealing Superstar Billy Grahams (ref?) look.Not that SOS looks like HHH or anything but the beard could be seen as a "HHH thing" and we are aware how egotistical HHH is.I think if HHH keeps that look and SOS makes it to the main roster without the chin unshaved,we can assume the reason why.

I hope this doesn't happen but I wouldn't put it past HHH.He is afterall part of the hierarchy.

You also mentioned the point that creative came up with the idea of Kane losing his mask.In my mind,HHH is part of creative along with Steph and Vince McMahon.I'd imagine they authorise final storylines etc.

Also,the Royal Rumble in 2002 was the most predictable RR in history.HHH return was the factor for this and since HHH only headlined one WM prior to this,it was obvious that along with his pending return that he was slotted to win it.If WWE were really that clever,they would have done a complete swerve at the last minute and have Austin,Angle,Taker or even Big Show win.Maybe the 4 aforementioned wrestlers in my last post were not contenders except for Perfect who I've always rated highly but they added to the overall event.

Totally agree that Jericho v HHH in 2000 was a great match.However the Power Trip would have made more sense if they had just the tag titles and World Title.I thought Jeff Hardy got a Raw deal.No pun intended.

Scott Steiner was rushed to be fed to HHH even if the title was in the picture or not.I can only assume that if Sting had joined WWE,before we know it they'd be in a feud.Seems that the ex WCW guys who join WWE leave with a bad taste in their mouth or get walked over.

Kevin Nash,Booker T,Steiner and Goldberg are all examples and they all jobbed to HHH and disappeared shortly after or went nowhere in the WWE.Is this any coincidence?Lets not take into account how good or bad you thought these guys were.They were/are top names that can be boasted on any roster.

Also,I may be wrong but didn't Shelton get squashed by HHH not so long ago?Is this a case of returning the favour?I think nearly every sport and sport entertainment is dominated by politics and HHH is part of the politics in WWE.

Matt Santos

I think we all agree that Pro Wrestling and especially WWE are at a severe low at the moment and really need to grab the bull by the horns quick or it is all over..... With the recent suspensions and the Benoit/Eddie tragedies the spot light is glaring down on the company more than ever now.
I think that WWE should be using this time to make a dramatic Brand move.
It needs to be built around long term lines and solid character structures.
I think that the RAW set needs an overhaul with maybe less red and more flash. Less Pyro and more magic.
It is essential that the Tag team roster should stay away from the Singles roster. Treat the Tag scene as a completely different entity. A solid story development that sees the teams headline future PPV's. Wind up the ante to these matches with less of the physical garbage and introduce a more "cerebral" approach with the promos......

As for HHH.......................
There is no doubt to his talent and I have to agree that his past decimation of mid-carders must be embarrassing for him to read back on now. It is also true that he will never attain the respect that the Rock, Austin and Taker have reached on the course that he finds himself on at the moment. He needs to be involved in a non-complicated line that will culminate in a title win not neccessarily at a Mania but it being a chequred story of advancement with both defeats and victories along the way. Another essential aspect to this line would be that at the end the public would consider it an oddessey of sorts and that he fully deserves to be the title holder.


I think that Cena has to be commended at this time for holding the franchise together at the moment in very rough and turbulent waters. He does need to relinquish the belt though and take some much needed time off as burn out is inevitable if this course is continued..............

ShawnRaven

Matt Santos wrote:

As for HHH.......................
There is no doubt to his talent and I have to agree that his past decimation of mid-carders must be embarrassing for him to read back on now. It is also true that he will never attain the respect that the Rock, Austin and Taker have reached on the course that he finds himself on at the moment.

Sorry dude, i have to cut you off here! But let's take a close look at those names.

Rock: A guy with a total of five full years to his credit before to-ing and fro-ing to Hollywood to make a rake of crap movies, turning his back on the people who actually made him. Let's call a spade a spade here, that's exactly what he did. He's pretty much said he's done with wrestling after five steady years and two half years (2002 and 2003). And you think HHH hasn't reached the course the Rock has taken. Let me see, won loads of titles, check! Done movies, check, spin cheesy catchphrases... check.

Austin: I love watching Austin's Stone Cold character, i really do. But as far as his WWE run goes, that is all he had. He couldn't wrestle a damn lick after his injury from Owen's botched pile driver. He was a kick wham stunner machine from 97-02 when he decided to forget who was his boss, not bother turning up for work because he didn't want to work with the NWO. A move i tended to agree with him, but once he kept coming back, he kept refusing to do jobs for people left right and centre. Even before his 2003 come back, he refused to work with the NWO, Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar. On top of that, he smacked his wife around. I think in those terms, HHH wins.

And Undertaker, don't get me started. Every time he's pushed heavily he gets injured and takes the guts of a year off. Just as his character got into gear in 99, oops, crippled! Comes back a year later as an overweight biker who puts few people over (the same sh*t people complain from Triple H!) until 2003 when he loses yet another buried alive match! (has he even won any of his self made matches?!). Comes back in 2004 as the dead man, a character that got stale about ten years earlier. Gets injured again but decides to go a couple of years with the injury nagging him to the point where WWE give him the belt, and less than a month later he has to drop it because he was too much of an idiot to take the time off when he was doing f*ck all for all intents and purposes. He's about as injury prone as Triple H, puts about as few people over and is held up on a pedestol cos he was around a couple of years longer? Give me a break!

And you wanna commend Cena on top of all of that? Horses for courses I guess, but i can't see the logic there.

VR!

Mr.Nice Guy

validreasoning! wrote:

Sorry dude, i have to cut you off here! But let's take a close look at those names.

Rock: A guy with a total of five full years to his credit before to-ing and fro-ing to Hollywood to make a rake of crap movies, turning his back on the people who actually made him. Let's call a spade a spade here, that's exactly what he did. He's pretty much said he's done with wrestling after five steady years and two half years (2002 and 2003). And you think HHH hasn't reached the course the Rock has taken. Let me see, won loads of titles, check! Done movies, check, spin cheesy catchphrases... check.

Sorry man I have to cut you off here! Have you lost your senses? Triple H is nowhere near the level of Rock. What movies has Triple H done exactly besides the Blade sequel that bombed in which his performance was ridiculed?? Kane made a bigger impact on screen than HHH.

Triple H has certainly not reached the level of The Rock no matter how many titles or catchphrases he takes on board. The Rock actually transcended the industry itself which is something Triple H did not do and will not do.

Also I think the "turning his back" stuff is bullsh*t. You telling me you'd turn down the chance to earn tons more money for work that was far less dangerous? I think not. Rock done a hell of a lot for Vince McMahon and Vince made a sh*t load off of Rock's back.

validreasoning! wrote:

Austin: I love watching Austin's Stone Cold character, i really do. But as far as his WWE run goes, that is all he had. He couldn't wrestle a damn lick after his injury from Owen's botched pile driver. He was a kick wham stunner machine from 97-02 when he decided to forget who was his boss, not bother turning up for work because he didn't want to work with the NWO. A move i tended to agree with him, but once he kept coming back, he kept refusing to do jobs for people left right and centre. Even before his 2003 come back, he refused to work with the NWO, Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar. On top of that, he smacked his wife around. I think in those terms, HHH wins.

How does Triple H win exactly? Triple H is the 'King of Kings' when it comes to refusing to work with people. Some of Austin's refusals were justified too. The Lesnar one was a match scheduled for Raw with no build which would have seen Austin lose. I can't see the son-in-law acting differently in such a situation.

As for Austin's wrestling ability, Triple H has been poor since injuries also. At least Austin has the distinction of being involved in a match that is often heralded as the best of all time - against Bret at WM13.

I think Austin wins even if he acts like an arsehole in his personal relationships.

validreasoning! wrote:

And Undertaker, don't get me started. Every time he's pushed heavily he gets injured and takes the guts of a year off. Just as his character got into gear in 99, oops, crippled! Comes back a year later as an overweight biker who puts few people over (the same sh*t people complain from Triple H!) until 2003 when he loses yet another buried alive match! (has he even won any of his self made matches?!). Comes back in 2004 as the dead man, a character that got stale about ten years earlier. Gets injured again but decides to go a couple of years with the injury nagging him to the point where WWE give him the belt, and less than a month later he has to drop it because he was too much of an idiot to take the time off when he was doing f*ck all for all intents and purposes. He's about as injury prone as Triple H, puts about as few people over and is held up on a pedestol cos he was around a couple of years longer? Give me a break!

Are you out of your f*cking mind? Let me explain to you why this rant is absolutely insane.

You mention his "overweight biker" return in 2000 (overweight? Wha?) who puts few people over which is apparently "the same sh*t people complain about Triple H". Sorry that's bollocks. When Triple H returned from a long injury lay off he landed himself the Undisputed title. When Undertaker returned from a long injury lay-off...oh The Rock stayed in the title frame. Huh. In fact Undertaker did not get the WWE title until 2002. TWO YEARS LATER. In that time he put over Kurt Angle, Steve Austin and MAVEN for f*ck's sake! He also put over Brock Lesnar clean in Hell in the Cell. Would Triple h have done that for Lesnar?

Now then on to your comments on his return in 2004 as the dead man. Stale? Wow those thousands of fans in New York screaming when he returned sure had me fooled! I was under the impression people loved it. I thought the same when I saw him at the Point and the place went f*cking bananas. If his gimmick was stale then he wouldn't still be getting monster pops 3 years on from it. And it would take him THREE YEARS before he would next hold a world championship!

In that time he put over guys like JBL, Angle (again) HEYDENREICH for f*ck's sake, Mr Kennedy and THE GREAT KHALI for f*ck's sake! Please do not compare him to the burial machine that is Triple H as they are on different planets. There is no way in hell Triple H would have done this.

And for the record he did not lose the title "less than a month later". It was over a month later through a freak injury and he had the guts to work through it.

Undertaker is put on a pedestal because he has been a diligent worker for the WWE over many years and did not get up to political bullsh*t like Triple H did. He also does not have a gigantic ego like HHH and is willing to work with inexperienced talent and put them over in a big way.

I really think you're defending the indefensible with regards to Triple H. Fair enough if you're a fan of his but I think the facts speak for themselves.

Bubs101

The Rock and Undertaker certainly have more respect and credibility than Hunter but Stone Cold, c'mon. He had a gimmick that appealled to everyone and probably the best finisher ever. Apart from that um............................................. punches, the lou thez press and the kick to the midriff before the Stunner. IMO he's aged terribly

Vince135792003

Bubs101 wrote:

Apart from that um............................................. punches, the lou thez press and the kick to the midriff before the Stunner. IMO he's aged terribly

It's not what you do that makes you a great wrestler. It's doing what you do and making people care about it that makes you great. Actually many wrestlers considered great did pretty limited stuff.

Bubs101

Vince135792003 wrote:

It's not what you do that makes you a great wrestler. It's doing what you do and making people care about it that makes you great. Actually many wrestlers considered great did pretty limited stuff.

I agree but when you look for the Rock's clips on youtube they still put all of the promo's today to shame while I think most of Austin's popularity was all momentum. Compared to others who didn't need more than 5 moves to be the best (like Hogan and the Rock) he doesnt really have the same lasting appeal. I'm presuming I'm not the only one who goes "not again" when they drag Austin back to plug his movie by giving a stunner to Trump or by giving a stunner to MVP or by spilling beer on coach or by spilling beer on Vince or by spilling etc.
The Rock was always fresh and thus should stand the test of time easily. Hogan has a look to him that Austin doesn't have. Hogan was majestic, Austin was a bald drunken hillbilly (if one of the Irish promotions took the template the result would be a tinker)

Hunter has had much better promo's than Austin (bar "that" speech probably). I think alot of people forget just how great and funny D-X were when it was just HBK, Hunter ,Chyna and that dude with the suit case. For me Austin doesn't have many of those and his best was when he broke out of character to play that cowboy.

As far as I'm concerned, he was my generations Cena (before Cena got good and had to carry the company :rolleyes: )

Vince135792003

Believe it or not Austin is the biggest draw of all time. Far bigger than John Cena ever will be. I think you underestimate how entertaining he was. Its old now but for quite a while him and Vince was phenomenal tv.

I think the reason why you might be jaded of him is simply that he can't be the guy he was in 1998. He bascially can't wrestle and that limits what he can offer.

For me when he comes out today and does his thing, apart of me does feel the same way about it as you. It's not as entertaining as it obviously was 9 years ago. It bothered more when he was GM than it does now though. He was perfect in the Vince/Trump deal.

He's still often the highlight of the show for people and I guarantee he'll be 70 years of age and still stunnering McMahons. And people will still care.

Actually it might be the the kind of thing that gets more entertaining with time.

Bubs101

A bigger draw than Hogan??

I liked him in the trump deal but it's so old. He always does the same thing and I thought his bit with MVP and Hardy was terrible. He comes on and does the bit he stole from Sandman then uses the stunner. amazing

ShawnRaven

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Sorry man I have to cut you off here! Have you lost your senses? Triple H is nowhere near the level of Rock. What movies has Triple H done exactly besides the Blade sequel that bombed in which his performance was ridiculed?? Kane made a bigger impact on screen than HHH.

Oh it's on like Donkey Kong, beyotch!

Rock had the Scorpion King movies and thats it. Everything else he did after that was utter crap. Even the Blade sequel did better Welcome To The Jungle, Walking Tall and Be Cool, all of which were total abortions. He wasn't even as funny as he could be in Be Cool apart from that afro.

Triple H has certainly not reached the level of The Rock no matter how many titles or catchphrases he takes on board. The Rock actually transcended the industry itself which is something Triple H did not do and will not do.

What? You tell me exactly how Rock transcended the industry. By doing sh*t that the likes of Billy Graham and Hulk Hogan did before him? Not exactly ground breaking stuff i'm afraid. Rock got over with his mic skills and bugger all else.

Also I think the "turning his back" stuff is bullsh*t. You telling me you'd turn down the chance to earn tons more money for work that was far less dangerous? I think not. Rock done a hell of a lot for Vince McMahon and Vince made a sh*t load off of Rock's back.

I'm not doubting that. My point was HHH stuck with the business that made him. HHH back between 2000-2002 could have easily quit Wrestling and gone down the bodybuilding route if he really wanted to. (WBF jokes aside please), he'd have earned a rake of a contract just for his status alone (and in 2000 that would have been pretty big as he skyrocketed that year). Rock took his ball and went home, (much like Austin only injuries forced him out more than anything else although Austin is more of an egomaniac these days).

How does Triple H win exactly? Triple H is the 'King of Kings' when it comes to refusing to work with people. Some of Austin's refusals were justified too. The Lesnar one was a match scheduled for Raw with no build which would have seen Austin lose. I can't see the son-in-law acting differently in such a situation.

Austin wasn't the draw everyone likes to believe he was in 2002. Granted that wasn't entirely his fault. As for HHH refusing to work with people, again, i'll get back on that subject when the same whiners complain about Undertaker and Hogan doing the same thing, instead of referring to them as 'Legends'.

As for Austin's wrestling ability, Triple H has been poor since injuries also. At least Austin has the distinction of being involved in a match that is often heralded as the best of all time - against Bret at WM13.

And even then, that was best known for it's finish than anything else and it was about the only thing that saved that abortion of a PPV. Both Austin and Bret have said on different occasions that the Survivor Series 96 match was ten times beter. And if you can't appreciation HHH's Ladder and Ironman match with Rock (and guess who carried that? it wasn't Rock!) Triple H's performance has decreased over injuries, but he's not the three move wonder Austin became! Something that angers me as i loved his WCW stuff!

I think Austin wins even if he acts like an arsehole in his personal relationships.

He acts like an arsehole in his professional relationships too so we'll have to agree to disagree there.

You mention his "overweight biker" return in 2000 (overweight? Wha?) who puts few people over which is apparently "the same sh*t people complain about Triple H". Sorry that's bollocks. When Triple H returned from a long injury lay off he landed himself the Undisputed title. When Undertaker returned from a long injury lay-off...oh The Rock stayed in the title frame. Huh. In fact Undertaker did not get the WWE title until 2002. TWO YEARS LATER. In that time he put over Kurt Angle, Steve Austin and MAVEN for f*ck's sake! He also put over Brock Lesnar clean in Hell in the Cell. Would Triple h have done that for Lesnar?

Undertaker during his comeback had a belly like a pregnant whale! He would continue to have this until he pissed off in 2003.

It's not always about the title. Let's go back to 2000, Triple H put Jericho and Benoit over a few times that year. Undertaker subsequently buried Angle, (putting him over once out of several matches), Jericho and Benoit also got the same treatment from Undertaker. It's not bollocks, it's just what actually happened. As for putting over Maven, please? He got eliminated from Rumble, and then proceeded to go back in and physically descimate Maven for a course of ten minutes! If that's your definition of putting someone over, i'd hate to see your definition of a burial!

Lesnar i will give you, would HHH have done the same? Yes, if Vince had ordered it. And Vince was hell bent on getting Brock over one way or another.

Now then on to your comments on his return in 2004 as the dead man. Stale? Wow those thousands of fans in New York screaming when he returned sure had me fooled! I was under the impression people loved it. I thought the same when I saw him at the Point and the place went f*cking bananas. If his gimmick was stale then he wouldn't still be getting monster pops 3 years on from it. And it would take him THREE YEARS before he would next hold a world championship!

I saw him at the point. Yeah, people went completely nuts for his entrance while i stood there wondering what the big deal is. Maybe i'm not an ubermark or something. It would take him 3 years because he'd probably get injured again. If i recall correctly he had a nagging knee at that show even then but kept putting the surgery off and off.

In that time he put over guys like JBL, Angle (again) HEYDENREICH for f*ck's sake, Mr Kennedy and THE GREAT KHALI for f*ck's sake! Please do not compare him to the burial machine that is Triple H as they are on different planets. There is no way in hell Triple H would have done this.

Again, comparing timeframes. HHH was putting people over in 2000 when Undertaker was burying them. People conveniently forget this though.

And for the record he did not lose the title "less than a month later". It was over a month later through a freak injury and he had the guts to work through it.

Oh give that man a medal. Nothing Michaels, Bret and even Hogan hasn't done in the past.

Undertaker is put on a pedestal because he has been a diligent worker for the WWE over many years and did not get up to political bullsh*t like Triple H did. He also does not have a gigantic ego like HHH and is willing to work with inexperienced talent and put them over in a big way.

Given how you conveniently ignore or forget times when Underseller did the exact same stuff, i really can't agree there. Same for HHH putting talent over, which we've already done to death in a previous rant so there's no point in even going there again.

I really think you're defending the indefensible with regards to Triple H. Fair enough if you're a fan of his but I think the facts speak for themselves.

Sadly you left out a load of those facts and concentrated on building up taker when he was a complete selfish, no money drawing sack of sh*t on his return. Has he changed his attitude since then, yes he has. But saying HHH hasn't put anyone over and refering to him as a "burial machine", especially when you're using Carlito, London, and Murdoch, who quite frankly have no chance of being main eventers anyway (in my opinion due to their size and look alone. After all, would you want your daughter to have an f*ck ugly gob****e like Trevor Murdoch on her wall?).

So the fact's really don't speak for themselves. And never will until every card is laid out on the table. Sadly, as far as Undertaker goes, you're playing with far from a full deck.

VR!

Kid Nothing

calling the Undertaker a "no money drawing sack of sh*t" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there's no way you can call the Undertaker that!!! Every kid loves him as much as they love Cena at the minute and most adults like him as well if not just because of the novelty factor. There was a reason his return match was the main event of Unforgiven.....cause people were paying to see his return. And as was pointed out above the pops he gets everytime are unreal.

No matter how good HHH is/was he is never going to have that aurora about him that people want to see him that Rock, Hogan, Flair, etc have. I was a fan of his for a time, but for me he has gotten stale.

ShawnRaven

amull87 wrote:

calling the Undertaker a "no money drawing sack of sh*t" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there's no way you can call the Undertaker that!!! Every kid loves him as much as they love Cena at the minute and most adults like him as well if not just because of the novelty factor. There was a reason his return match was the main event of Unforgiven.....cause people were paying to see his return. And as was pointed out above the pops he gets everytime are unreal.

Please re-read what i wrote. I referred to him as that due to the fact that nobody really cared that much for his American bad-ass character once Judgment Day 2000 came alone. His comeback wrecked the ending of a great ironman match and he the proceeded to bury Angle, Jericho and Benoit on his return. I wasn't refering to his return a couple of weeks ago. And it's actually funny you mention people paying to see is return, when two months beforehand they were doing that with HHH.

No matter how good HHH is/was he is never going to have that aurora about him that people want to see him that Rock, Hogan, Flair, etc have. I was a fan of his for a time, but for me he has gotten stale.

Let me get one thing clear, I'm no HHH fanboy. I too, was one of the many who suffered the HHHoverexposure in 2003 to the point where i stopped watching RAW. As for the aura about him (i think is the word you're groping for), I dunno. A lot of people seemed quite happy to see him on his Summerslam return. As were they at MSG on his retun in 2002.

Guess thats the typical WWE fanbase. Cry for a return, then bitch when it happens.

VR!

rossie1977

fact remains no matter how many WM's Triple H headlines or how many titles he wins; HE WILL NEVER DRAW AS MUCH AS JOHNSON or WILLIAMS.

as for movies Johnson has been the first wrestler to have starring roles in moves (outside of WWE/WCW endorsed rubbish) since hogan and piper :eek: (though They live was great).

Not the biggest fan of the undertaker but the reason he keeps getting injured imo is because he is so freakin skinny, his legs are fu*king matchsticks...

Speaking of numbers Blade 3 drew $52 million in the States, Be Cool $56 million, Rundown $48 million, Walking tall $46 million, Doom did very bad at just $28 million.

Kid Nothing

my mistake and yeah aura was the word i was "groping" for. lol

yeah i'll agree that he did ruin that Ironman match and has had his on fair share of stinking matches/angles but i think he is definetely a Legend.

To be honest i think that the reason i was so anti-HHH about the original topic (burying London and Kendrick) is due to the fact that the WWE as a whole is so dissappointing at the minute and HHH burying people and trying to make himself bigger isn't exactly refreshing!!!

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote:

as for movies Johnson has been the first wrestler to have starring roles in moves (outside of WWE/WCW endorsed rubbish) since hogan and piper :eek: (though They live was great).

Was The Princess Bride before or after Rocky III? That had Andre in it.

Not the biggest fan of the undertaker but the reason he keeps getting injured imo is because he is so freakin skinny, his legs are fu*king matchsticks...

In his defense, i noticed that a lot with big guys. If you ever saw John Tenta as himself in WCW or even as Golga in WWE in 98 when he lost weight, his legs were quite skinny for his body too. And this is a guy who used to do sumo!

Speaking of numbers Blade 3 drew $52 million in the States, Be Cool $56 million, Rundown $48 million, Walking tall $46 million, Doom did very bad at just $28 million.

Thank you for proving my point. And Be Cool drew more money for being the sequel to Get Shorty, rather than Rock's "gay cowboy wannabe' part.

VR!

ShawnRaven

amull87 wrote:

To be honest i think that the reason i was so anti-HHH about the original topic (burying London and Kendrick) is due to the fact that the WWE as a whole is so dissappointing at the minute and HHH burying people and trying to make himself bigger isn't exactly refreshing!!!

I can agree and even sympathise with you. But HHH has come back to a company working with a shell of a roster! He's coming back after an eight month layoff. Unfortunately suspensions, firings and deaths all took their toll on the roster in that eight months. What else could WWE do here? (bearing in mind that Vince calls the shots, not HHH), have him sit in the back twiddling his thumbs?

Because somehow i don't think WWE planned for the signature busts as part of his comeback! :rolleyes:

VR!

rossie1977

validreasoning! wrote:

Was The Princess Bride before or after Rocky III? That had Andre in it.

Princess Bride was filmed in 1986 so after Rocky 3, i did say starring roles though, Andre wasn't the main star of that movie, he was a bit part player like Trips in Blade 3. Lets see how Trips draws on his own, Cena, Austin, Kane etc have sucked donkey ba*ls in main starring roles and have drew about 1/3 of stuff like Rundown, Walking Tall etc.

I will upload a pic of what i am talking about with taker, when i met him last year i thought he looked like a anorexic, most of wrestling injuries happen to the legs it seems

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

What else could WWE do here? (bearing in mind that Vince calls the shots, not HHH), have him sit in the back twiddling his thumbs?

He could wrestle. He could win against anyone. Just don't have him bury 5 guys when your short of people right now.

You can keep Triple H looking strong without doing what they did. Nothing was gained from it. The buzz for his return in 2007 versus 2001 is night and day in terms of interest.

Kid Nothing

Vince135792003 wrote:

He could wrestle. He could win against anyone. Just don't have him bury 5 guys when your short of people right now.

Nothing was gained from it.

yeah that's the point of this topic. Nobody wants to see a good (great in this case) wrestlers not working but why not but him in a meaningful feud which at the same time elevates the other wrestler (I think this is what the plan was with HHH-Umaga before the suspensions). Having him bury 5 wrestlers is beyond pointless

Vince135792003

Bubs101 wrote:

A bigger draw than Hogan??

Yep Austin was in fact a bigger draw than Hogan. E-mail Bruce Mitchell or Wade Keller or Dave Meltzer and ask them if you want to get a rise out of them. They've been answering the question for the last 5 years! Bruce Mitchell of the torch actually has it up as his last rule in his forum which I thought was funny.

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

Yep Austin was in fact a bigger draw than Hogan. E-mail Bruce Mitchell or Wade Keller or Dave Meltzer and ask them if you want to get a rise out of them. They've been answering the question for the last 5 years! Bruce Mitchell of the torch actually has it up as his last rule in his forum which I thought was funny.

It's a fact. Austin in the 90s/2000's made more merchandise sales than Hogan did in the 80s/90s for WWE. Cena has still yet to break his record last time i checked too.

VR!

ShawnRaven

amull87 wrote:

yeah that's the point of this topic. Nobody wants to see a good (great in this case) wrestlers not working but why not but him in a meaningful feud which at the same time elevates the other wrestler (I think this is what the plan was with HHH-Umaga before the suspensions). Having him bury 5 wrestlers is beyond pointless

He didn't bury them though! It wasn't even a match! If it was a 4 on 1 handicap match where he came out on top, fair enough, i'd be right in there with the bitching too.

But it wasn't!
VR!

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

He didn't bury them though

There are many ways to bury people. Beating the tag team champions cleanly with a move you rarely win with is one way.

Beating up the young team that ran into save you and make them look like unimportant goofs is another. You don't have to pin a guys shoulders to say to the fans in your actions "These guys don't mean ****". And it accomplished what? Nothing. You could do a101 other things to keep Triple H's momentum going without hurting both teams.

I couldn't care less about Carlito.

ShawnRaven

HHH issues aside, when was the last time a tag team actually meant anything in WWE?

VR!

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

HHH issues aside, when was the last time a tag team actually meant anything in WWE?

When the Hardys had a program with Cade/Murdoch 3/4 months ago. People cared and got into it.

Kid Nothing

validreasoning! wrote:

HHH issues aside, when was the last time a tag team actually meant anything in WWE?

VR!

Well if it's ever going to be worth anything again then this kind of action isn't doing it any favours. Many people would love to see it mean something again and as has been said loads of times, it didn't help anyone and there were plenty of other options