Help needed for decision on wood pellet boiler

bfitz_g

Hi all,
I'm new to this boards but came accross it while looking for info on wood pellet boilers & storage.

After years of dreaming of building our dream home and several knock downs for planning we have found a site with planning being sold by builder. We are just about to sign a contract and are pricing everything at the moment.

We have decided to go with underfloor heating with wood pellet boiler & bulk storage.

I am so confused about which boiler to buy and what type of bulk storage to go with. We are going to build a shead at the bootom of the garden to put the boiler in and are considering putting pellet storage in there.

All advice & recommendations welcome!!!!!!

BoylerMan

bfitz_g,
I went through a similar thing recently trying to decide on Wood Pellet or conventional heating (Oil). In the end I decided to stick with the oil as the costs for a wood pellet system is very high.

Here is why I opted not to get one :
1) A good wood pellet system (eg. Windhager) will cost alot even with the grant.
1) Building a storage area that is dry and properly vented. This is very important to prevent moisture getting near the pellets. It also needs to be big enough to store at least 3 tonnes of pellets to be economical. If the pellets get damp they are useless and will cause endless problems in the auger and the burner. As you may have noticed this summer, this country is very damp.
2) Supply of good pellets is limited in Ireland.
3) I can get lots of oil for what I estimated at the time to be about a 10K Euro difference in installation costs when everything is taken into account.

My suggestion would be to spend the money on insulation and a solar panel for heating you water. I purchased a solar panel to heat a 210 litre tank for about 1800 Euros.

There are plenty of threads about this topic if you look further.

bfitz_g

I've spent the day looking through the other threads but all the info in them is dated 2006. I was wondering how all those people who went with wood pellets were getting on a year later. Are they happy with boilers, storage.

It doesn't look good that the only person who has replied so far says dont do it.

ircoha

bfitz_g wrote:

Hi all,
I'm new to this boards but came accross it while looking for info on wood pellet boilers & storage.

After years of dreaming of building our dream home and several knock downs for planning we have found a site with planning being sold by builder. We are just about to sign a contract and are pricing everything at the moment.

We have decided to go with underfloor heating with wood pellet boiler & bulk storage.

I am so confused about which boiler to buy and what type of bulk storage to go with. We are going to build a shead at the bootom of the garden to put the boiler in and are considering putting pellet storage in there.

All advice & recommendations welcome!!!!!!

Have u researched and priced a passive house: if are starting from scratch I would be looking at designing a house that requires as little energy as possible and then decide how to heat it. Yes they cost a bit more but when oil is 300euro a barrel and WP not available, you will be snug as a bug in the nip in your passive house:)

As noted elsewhere external storage of WPs in damp Ireland is a receipe for disaster: if u go WP integrate the store in the house so as it can be heated to keep the pellets dry: down the garden etc no way

If going to consider solar panel: make sure the orientation of the roof is optimal

AckwelFoley

bfitz_g wrote:

I've spent the day looking through the other threads but all the info in them is dated 2006. I was wondering how all those people who went with wood pellets were getting on a year later. Are they happy with boilers, storage.

It doesn't look good that the only person who has replied so far says dont do it.

I work in a hardware store and we sell woodpellet boilers and other sustainable energy products and i have alot of expierence with these products

Boylermans information was pretty accurate.

The problem with woodpellet boilers in my opinion is with the supply of the fuel. There is one company at the moment that supplys it in bulk, purchasing it anyother way is a waste of time. When demand increases for the fuel, the price will go up, which it is at the moment.

The best boilers to buy are cast Iron boilers, they are more expensive but much better in the long term. You can get them at about 5,800 minus the price of the grant.

You can also gowever opt for oil, and grant engineering supply a condenser oil boiler to the market that uses 30% less oil than the regular one they can be purchased for about 1300, there is no grant available.



I agree too that solar panels / solar tubes are a great choice and honestly a must have option.

bfitz_g

ircoha wrote:

Have u researched and priced a passive house: if are starting from scratch I would be looking at designing a house that requires as little energy as possible and then decide how to heat it. Yes they cost a bit more but when oil is 300euro a barrel and WP not available, you will be snug as a bug in the nip in your passive house:)

As noted elsewhere external storage of WPs in damp Ireland is a receipe for disaster: if u go WP integrate the store in the house so as it can be heated to keep the pellets dry: down the garden etc no way

If going to consider solar panel: make sure the orientation of the roof is optimal

I wont get started cause its a hobby horse of mine badly designed houses. I just dont understand how in this day and age co councils aren't insisting on passive solar design.

When we designed our own dream home it was done that way but we got turned down for planning permission twice in Kildare. The site we are buying has planning permission already on it for 3 houses but is owned by the builder who wants to clear the site straight away so unfortunatelly we don't have a choice in the design. The front of the site is facing south west, the living areas will get the sun in morning & evening & utility bathroom bedroom face north. Its not ideal but not the worst I've seen either. We intend to build a cavity wall shead roof facing south with solar panels & woodpellet boiler & bulk storage in it.

bfitz_g

snyper wrote:

I work in a hardware store and we sell woodpellet boilers and other sustainable energy products and i have alot of expierence with these products

Boylermans information was pretty accurate.

The problem with woodpellet boilers in my opinion is with the supply of the fuel. There is one company at the moment that supplys it in bulk, purchasing it anyother way is a waste of time. When demand increases for the fuel, the price will go up, which it is at the moment.

The best boilers to buy are cast Iron boilers, they are more expensive but much better in the long term. You can get them at about 5,800 minus the price of the grant.

You can also gowever opt for oil, and grant engineering supply a condenser oil boiler to the market that uses 30% less oil than the regular one they can be purchased for about 1300, there is no grant available.



I agree too that solar panels / solar tubes are a great choice and honestly a must have option.

Have looked at the condenser oil burner, builder suggested it, but other half is determined to go with wood pellets & I can see why. The price of oil is just going to go up & up and eventually run out. Geothermal has such a high initial outlay that it doesn't pay for itself compared to wood pellets over the life of a mortgage.

We looked at air to water but know so little about it didn't know if its worth the chance.

So the decision has been made to go with wood pellets its just a matter now of picking a boiler.

AckwelFoley

bfitz_g wrote:

Geothermal has such a high initial outlay that it doesn't pay for itself compared to wood pellets over the life of a mortgage.

We looked at air to water but know so little about it didn't know if its worth the chance.

.

Sorry, but thats completely inaccurate. - Assuming you have a mortgage of 20 yrs or more

15k for geothermal, which supplys the heating for the entire house. Yes there is extra insulation rewuired for the house but the insulation will pay for itself saving on heat loss. If you consider the cost of the geothermal and the cost of oil every year the geothermal will alone pay for itself within 15 -20 years, however you have to remember there is a substantial grant available for the geothermal also.

In addition with the new energy rating of houses that is being introduced, houses that use more rnewable energys will receive a better ratingand therefore be of increased value.

Air to water pumps are essentially the same except, instead of compressing the energy taken from the ground it condenses and compresses energy from the Air and works from -5 degrees upwards. Similar grants available but can come supplied and fitted for 10K. Suppliers i would deal with will guarentee that the system will be suffuicent if insulation and installation guidlines are followed. You need to remember that these systems are not new and are in use on the continent of europe for many years now.


- brian

billy_beckham

snyper wrote:

however you have to remember there is a substantial grant available for the geothermal also.

Not so substantial now!!

AckwelFoley

billy_beckham wrote:

Not so substantial now!!

Well, Phase 2 from October will ber reduced from €4300 to €2500, which although considerebly less is better than a smack in the head.

towbar

bfitz_g


I guess everybody just recommends the one they have - we have a Verner
A25G and very happy with it. I buy pellets in half tonne bags as dont have a bulk store yet and fill the boiler once every 4 days during the winter. I reckon I saved about €4-500 last year over oil. It is more work and on occasion especially if I have pellets stored for more than 3 months it might fail to light on first attempt (happened about 5-6 times in last 12 months)- at the moment requires a manual restart however I think I have a solution to that. What I like about the boiler although probably will never use is that it can burn oats, barley, corn and other fuels but not logs or wood chip. If you are in North East and want to see drop me a PM - supplied by Alternative Heat in Newry.

Still waiting on a reasonably priced outdoor plastic pellet store - apparently balcas are shortly due to have one <2k so here's hoping.

towbar

Regarding solar - initially thought I would go for solar but having gone wood pellet not sure the additional savings justify it. From May to August we used about €300 pellets. This was heating hot water and maybe 30% of evenings the house would need a heating top up. If solar could supply 60% of hot water needs the most I would be saving is about €150 for those months and maybe €50 for the rest of the year. On that basis it would take a long time for solar to payback. I know there has been alot debate on this on this forum but at this point I cant see the value in going solar with WP. With oil there may be some additonal savings that give it a better return.

I would strongly agree to extra insulation now as that cant be added later.

bfitz_g

towbar wrote:

bfitz_g


I guess everybody just recommends the one they have - we have a Verner
A25G and very happy with it. I buy pellets in half tonne bags as dont have a bulk store yet and fill the boiler once every 4 days during the winter. I reckon I saved about €4-500 last year over oil. It is more work and on occasion especially if I have pellets stored for more than 3 months it might fail to light on first attempt (happened about 5-6 times in last 12 months)- at the moment requires a manual restart however I think I have a solution to that. What I like about the boiler although probably will never use is that it can burn oats, barley, corn and other fuels but not logs or wood chip. If you are in North East and want to see drop me a PM - supplied by Alternative Heat in Newry.

Still waiting on a reasonably priced outdoor plastic pellet store - apparently balcas are shortly due to have one <2k so here's hoping.

Thanks,

You are the second person who recomended Verner this week. Unfortunately the other person was a plumber who was in fixing the oil boiler we have in this house before we sell it. Typical you put the house up for sale and the boiler goes.

TopMan

With all the renewable products out there, pellet is still the most economical with the quickest payback.

Solar can provide most ouf your hot water in the summer but won't contribute anything towards your heating. 10-12 year payback.

Geothermal only produces heating water up to 50-55 degrees. You still need another heat source such as an electrical immersion or back up boiler to give domestic hot water at the normal 65 +. I just can't see the economics behind the sale of geothermal systems. €15-20K plant and installation costs. It uses an amount of electricity which is the one product that will track the price of oil. Also electricity is one of the diriest energy sources by being produced with only 40% efficiency during it's generation. 10-15 year payback.

Wood pellet can provide all the heating and hot water you need. The payback on a complete nells and whistles system is still only 5-10 years. Boiler and pellet storage can still fit comfortably in a domestic garage with space to spare.

I have a pellet boiler in since last year and an very happy with the whole system. I estimate that I am saving 40% in every fill of oil I was getting previously. Oil prices are only going one direction.

Biglad

Hi,

We have been using our MESCOLI CB28 since Easter this year and we are very happy with the set-up. We build a new 2 story 2500sqft house with UFH. I dont know why everybody keeps crying about pellets and the lack of supply. We are burning about 20 kilo's a day as my wife is home with maternity leave and the heating is kept on for longer during the day. Before the baby was born we burned about 15-17 kilo's per day. I do realize that we haven't gone through a proper winter yet. Pellets will be in short supply untill we have more manufacturers on-line. I've just received a 3 ton delivery from Balcas which was ordered a week ago. If you are going to look for pellets around christmas then expect a lead time of 3-4 weeks, that's just the way it is right know. Order between march and november and you'll be fine.
In this day and age I cannot understand people still choosing oil but that's just me. Maybe if I was selling Oil Burners and knew nothing about Pellet Buners I would recommend oil as well.
We are definately saving money with the pellets. I store the pellets in the roof space over the garage and that works fine for us. It holds app. 5 tonnes and 2 tonnes will come down by gravity. After that i go in to the storage and push the pellets over the outlet manually, simple but effective.

The problem a lot of people are facing is that most Pellet Burner Sellers haven't really got a clue what they are selling and when it goes wrong, tuff. All they are/were interested in was getting their hands on your grant, nothing more nothing less.

I researched the whole thing for months and decided to go with the Mescoli. I looked at the Woodpecker as well, the Opop, Frohling, Kedco, any many more exotic makes.
Our Mescoli holds 150 liters of hot water so there is always a large thermal reserve which helps the Boiler reacting to the demand for heat. The Boiler is set to 75c and the DHW Cylinder is set to 63c. Roomstats are set for 20c during the day and they fall back to 18 for night times (22.00 to 06.00). This is the way it'sd been running since Easter and I would not change any of it.

I hope the above was of some help to you.

Ps. I have no shares in Mescoli, Just sick of all these retailers that dont know hat they are selling and these plumbers that want to hang on to the 60ties.