And the top 11 greenest cars are....

unkel

Like I said, E92. Promises, promises all 'round

JHMEG

E92 wrote:

I bet you don't see diesel fumes coming from a Euro 4 diesel

Actually I do! And the smell is still there, even from '07 models.

E92 wrote:

But my eyes did see the following from the same website:
The breakthrough BLUETEC® clean diesel technology in the E320 BLUETEC Sedan — winner of the 2007 World Green Car award — blends fuel efficiency and low noise to rival a hybrid without sacrificing power, while significantly reducing the soot and pollutants often associated with diesel engines via specialized filters and catalytic converters.

They would say that wouldn't they.. it's called marketing! And if we don't have bluetec here, well that must mean that we still have lots of "soot and pollutants" here? The fact remains that it's still not petrol-clean if it doesn't meet emissions standards in 8 states.

E92 wrote:

BMW were meant to be going alone with whatever it was that they were going to do, and I guess what the end result is basically the Bluetec technology that VAG and MB are/will be using.

Link?

E92 wrote:

And just what did BMW licence from Honda ? Something important I hope. Or is it something to do with that time when BMW owned Rover, and Rover still used Honda items.

Pre the web, so hard to find a link, but I'm pretty sure they were one of the many licencees of CVCC in the 70's. Ironically CVCC was emissions related.

unkel wrote:

Offering any bets, are you?

That's a money making idea I hadn't thought of!:)

E92

JHMEG wrote:

Link?

Here

JHMEG wrote:

Pre the web, so hard to find a link, but I'm pretty sure they were one of the many licencees of CVCC in the 70's. Ironically CVCC was emissions related.

Hmmm thats interesting. BMW introduced fuel injection for the US market in the 1975, with the New Six/CS aka the E3/E9. And the E12 5 series introduced in 1972(not sure about the exact date for the US introduction however, but presumably sometime in 73) was an all fuel injected lineup. The 02 series was still on sale at the time, and apart from the 2002 ti(which was the first BMW with fuel injection), they all had carburettors. So yeah, it is very much a possibility that they used CVCC for the rest of the 02 series.

ninty9er

I have two very pedantic remarks.

1- manufacturers can introduce all the diesel models they want in the US, but that's f**k all good until euro diesel becomes available ther

2- The entry level Audi A8 is now the 3.2 FSI. The 2.8 has been discontinued...so if a CEO did get the 2.8 she/he'd be a right cheapskate as she/he would also have a second hand car

E92

ninty9er wrote:

The entry level Audi A8 is now the 3.2 FSI. The 2.8 has been discontinued...so if a CEO did get the 2.8 she/he'd be a right cheapskate as she/he would also have a second hand car

Eh, no. The 2.8 FSI has been re-introduced, as part of the A8's facelift. It will be arriving here shortly. See here for more info.

E92

I know we're not supposed to bring back threads from the dead so to speak, but I feel compelled to.

unkel wrote:

Like I said, E92. Promises, promises all 'round

Well unlike this Government some actually deliver them. Diesel in all 50 US states is stepping up a gear.

See here for more.

It says and I quote:

World Car Fans.com wrote:

MERCEDES IS FIRST TO BRING DIESEL BACK TO CALIFORNIA
E320 BLUETEC Makes Market Debut in at Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week at Smashbox Studios
LOS ANGELES, CA – On the runway at this week’s Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week at Smashbox Studios, Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) unveiled a version of its E320 BLUETEC, a diesel sedan that will immediately be available in limited numbers to California customers through a special two-year/24,000-mile lease.
California’s stringent emissions requirements have kept new diesel automobiles models off the market for the better part of a decade. The new E320 BLUETEC – distinguished as “2007 World Green Car” by an international panel of journalists earlier this year – changes all that.
BLUETEC denotes state-of-the-art engine and exhaust technology which produces the cleanest diesels available on the market today. Utilizing this technology, the V6-powered E320 BLUETEC diesel is able to provide the powerful torque of a large V8 engine with the low fuel consumption of a four-cylinder compact.
“In order to be able to provide the power and economy of diesel technology throughout the world, we had to make the diesel version as clean as the gasoline model. With BLUETEC, nitrogen oxides can be reduced to such an extent that our diesel vehicles will satisfy the strictest emission regulations in the world – even in the future. This makes Mercedes-Benz the first manufacturer in the world to fully bring all exhaust gas components under control,” said Dr. Leopold Mikulic, head of powertrain development at Mercedes-Benz Cars.
Beginning October 15, MBUSA will offer its E320 BLUETEC to customers under a two-year/24,000 mile lease program through Mercedes-Benz Financial Services. The E320 BLUETEC is lease-priced on a par with its gasoline sibling, the E350.
The special limited-mileage lease program is the first step in the company’s plans to offer consumers diesel alternatives in all 50 states. MBUSA will offer 50-state diesels across its SUV model lines (M, GL and R-Class) late next year and will continue to add to its alternative powertrain offerings.
According to Tom Cackette, executive director for the California Air Resources Board (CARB), “The E320 is testimony to demanding nothing but the cleanest vehicles for California. Mercedes-Benz has developed a diesel emission control system that results in a car as clean as comparable gasoline vehicles being sold here. This vehicle has shed the reputation of diesel as a dirty technology. And we hope has shed its anti-diesel reputation by certifying this vehicle as the first diesel passenger car to meet the most stringent smog emission standards in the world.”
MBUSA, which has sold diesels here in the United States for 40 years, believes diesels are an ideal solution for today’s luxury car buyers because they yield a significant increase in fuel efficiency without sacrificing performance or interior room. The E320 BLUETEC can go nearly 700 highway miles on a single tank of fuel.
“We’re breaking new ground here as we pave the way for the return of the diesel to ,” said Ernst Lieb, president and CEO of MBUSA. “BLUETEC is the most promising technology for customers who want to get up to 20-40 percent higher fuel efficiency without sacrificing the performance and the driving characteristics they’re used to.” According to Lieb, the market plays a critical role in the comeback of the diesel: “In addition to being one of the top automotive markets in the world, has tremendous influence. We know we have quite a few loyal diesel buyers there who have been waiting for the opportunity to get back into a diesel, but we also want to tap into a new group of buyers who are interested in making their dollar go farther without compromising performance or their personal style.”
Beyond their fuel efficiency, from an environmental standpoint, BLUETEC vehicles are the cleanest diesels available in the world today. Since diesels inherently burn less fuel than gasoline vehicles, they also produce significantly lower emissions of carbon dioxide (C02). Also, in BLUETEC vehicles particulate levels are reduced to levels comparable – or better than – that of gasoline-powered vehicles. Similarly, NOX emissions are reduced to meet the most stringent exhaust limits in the world.
The lease program will function as a bridge as MBUSA prepares to begin phasing in 50-state BLUETEC vehicles nationwide starting in 2008. The first step will be the extension of the special lease program to other states which do not currently allow sales of new diesel automobiles in January 2008. Later in 2008, Mercedes will introduce another BLUETEC system on its M-, R- and GL-Class vehicles. This system utilizes AdBlue injection, a process that adds precisely measured quantities of a urea-based solution into the exhaust stream which enhances long-term emissions performance sufficient to meet the stringent BIN 5 standards.

And Audi has joined their Volkswagen sibling.

See here

It says and I quote:

Armed with statistics like 35% less fuel consumption than average petrol engines as well as “fulfilling the toughest emission standard in the world – the LEV II Bin 5 classification, which is operative in the US states of California, New York, Massachusetts, Maine and Vermont,” the 3.0 TDI plays an important role in the reduction of C02 emissions.
“According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the United States could save 1.4 million barrels of crude oil every day if just one third of all passenger cars and light-duty commercial vehicles were equipped with up-to-date diesel engines.
Leading market research firms such as J. D. Power predict that diesel engines will have a 12 to 15 percent share of the US market in 2015, which represents a substantial jump compared to the current share of sales of around four percent.”

unkel

That's looking promising for MB, E92! Still no cigar though. First to pass CARB / 50 states will win . Place your bets gentlemen!

galwaytt

Hold on a minute though, before you all run off and get all excited by Blue technology on diesels.

It's akin to the 'false' advantage of Hybrids over conventional engines. First, whoever came up the way to clean up exhausts...........is to ADD chemicals...is probably on commission from the biggest chemical mfrs........and laughing all the way to the bank. Those, and all the oil companies who own forecourts, who now get put yet another kind of pump for you buy stuff from - on top of your fuel

As an example, see the pic attached.
That large silver jet-engine like canister is on the exhaust, and is the unit which adds the Blue chemical to the exhaust gases. The tank at the top of the picture hold the Blue.

So, we've added weight, an extra fluid, complexity - and therefore, cost - and our vehicles are 'cleaner' - Ha ! We're some mugs, that's for sure.

colm_mcm

We have Bluetec on a Merc truck, it supposedly lasts for ages and isn't that expensive.

JHMEG

A few things about Adblue:

1. It's sold in this country but not at petrol stations (www.findadblue.com) for some reason?

2. I don't know how much it costs but usage will be 5% the rate diesel is consumed. ie for every 20 litres of diesel 1 litre of Adblue is consumed, which seems like a lot.

3. Even more disappointing about Adblue is that it is made from Natural Gas, ffs! It's chemically quite close to p1ss yet it's made from fossil fuels! Me starting to think Big Oil is behind it.

I presume it's also possible, legal (in Europe anyway) and cheaper to drive your Adblue diesel with no Adblue in it until it comes to NCT time.

It has to be said that a self contained system like Honda's (and hopefully BMW according to E92) is a lot more satisfactory.

CarLover

It's a good thing I derive so much pleasure from killing bunny wabbits as I wouldn't want any of the cars on that original list...

Hydrogen fuel cell technology...and we'll all soon forget about green cars and they'll stop making those rancid hybrid pieces of crap

Of course...when they've made the technology cheap that is...