Local Pharmacies withdrawing from HSE dispensing Schemes

locum-motion

I might be breaking some kind of boards.ie rule here, but I'm pasting below a comment I left on askaboutmoney.com yesterday. To see the comment in it's original thread, see;
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=116445
Thanks.

"Very much simplified version of situation/issues:

1. Under the Health Acts, Govt is obliged to provide your drugs for you if you're eligible.
2. Pharmacists were contracted to provide these for you on Govts behalf.
3. The Govt tried to reduce the payments for these services, was ruled by the court to have breached the contract.
4. Govt changed the law (Financial Emergency Measures in Public Interest Act, 2009, aka FEMPI) meaning that contract wasn't worth paper its written on. FEMPI states that Minister can reduce payments despite any contract that says otherwise.
5. Govt announced sweeping cuts in the payments at only 13 days notice, amounting to approximately 34-35% of the profits that pharmacies made for providing the services. Essentially, cuts are on a "take it or leave it" basis. (FEMPI says health professionals can give 30 days notice if they don't want to accept the cuts)
6. Many pharmacists (approx 1100 out of 1500-1600, as of 2/7/09) give the Govt notice of non-acceptance of the cuts, effective from 1st August.
7. Govt still obliged to supply or make arrangements to supply your drugs.

For a details discussion of how much pharmacies are paid, including explanations of why medicines are much cheaper in Spain etc., please visit the following thread:
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=115450
Please read it. You may be surprised. Pharmacies are not the rip-off merchants that many seem to believe.

Pharmacists recognise the need to save money on the drugs budget, and have been attempting for years through our Union to negotiate such matters with the Govt. The Govt has consistently refused to negotiate. When last year's attempt at cuts nearly led to a withdrawal, there were 11th-hour promises made by the Govt/HSE to engage in meaningful negotiations with the Union. These promises were reneged upon.

What pharmacists want: the right to have cuts negotiated with our Union; for any cuts to be reasonable and proportionate to that being asked of other professions/sectors of society; meaningful engagement with our Union about how to reduce the overall drugs bill in a sustainable manner.

What happens in August: The Govt's obligation to supply meds to those eligible still exists. Similarly, for those with "partial eligibility" are still entitled to get refunds and/or partial refunds. If the Govt doesn't engage with the Union, they will have to make alternative arrangements for you. Please ask the HSE what those alternative arrangements are.

We are not being unreasonable. The HSE and the Govt in the form of Mary Harney are being unreasonable.

Please, talk to your local pharmacist. We are an approachable bunch of people, and you don't need an appointment! Ask us how much it costs us to buy stock. Ask us how much we used to get paid to supply them. Ask us how much we will get paid in the future.

And then, make up your mind.

Thanks for reading. "

mike65

How come Boots have decided to stay out of this? And what do I need to do if I want to swap to Boots? Just recover my LTI book from my pharmacist and walk down the street? Or do I have to go back to my Doctor (50 euro please!) for some scrap of papar?

Here is the previous thread on this subject for anyone interested (Oct 2007)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156817

locum-motion

mike65 wrote: »

How come Boots have decided to stay out of this? And what do I need to do if I want to swap to Boots? Just recover my LTI book from my pharmacist and walk down the street? Or do I have to go back to my Doctor (50 euro please!) for some scrap of papar?

Here is the previous thread on this subject for anyone interested (Oct 2007)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156817

Good question, Mike, and let me declare my interest by saying that I don't work for Boots. Never have, never will.

Boots' business model, both in the UK and here, is very different from your local, independantly owned pharmacy. They are very much a high-volume-driven toiletries etc shop, that happens to have a dispensary and a pharmacist tucked away at the back. They make the vast majority of their profits from the hairdryers, vitamins, razor blades etc.
Now, I don't doubt that most Boots employee pharmacists are very nice people dedicated to their clients, but their corporate culture is very much different from the locally owned pharmacy. Those guys are really part of their community. If and when I ever own my own pharmacy, that's the type of pharmacy I'd like it to be.

Basically, Boots are staying out of the dispute because they know that they're big enough to ride out the storm, and they're hoping that the rest of us will go bust and they'll still be there to pick up the pieces.

Mike, it is your decision what pharmacy you use. Always was, always will be. So, if you decide to go to Boots, you are of course free to do so. Just ask your pharmacist to give you back your LTI book. But, please, do me and yourself and your regular pharmacist a favour when you do: talk to your pharmacist. Talk to them about what these cuts mean. About how services would have to be reduced and how many staff would lose their jobs if the pharmacy tries to trade its way through this new payment model. If you still think that we're all greedy sods who rip you off and don't care about you when you've done that, then by all means move your custom elsewhere.

The profits that are made in pharmacies are not as big as people think. And in the future, they will be miniscule or non-existant. But, at the end of the day, would you prefer to see what profits there are go to a British conglomerate (Boots), a German conglomerate (Unicare), a Dutch conglomerate (McSweeney's Pharmacies) or to see them stay in your community, supporting a local business providing local jobs and whose kids go to school with your kids?

Thanks for reading.

mr.impossible

ElBarco wrote: »

The government may well be at fault - I don't want to debate the rights and wrongs of the whole situation.

You are just worried about how to get your drugs, understandable

ElBarco wrote: »

But the pharmacists may all go and f*ck themselves if they think that taking this out on the patients is a good way to go. Seriously, the government may be proposing to reduce your income but everyones income is being reduced.

Gov doesn't pay me a wage, they pay the shop for drugs dispensed. That money pays expenses (including wages for employees) and what is left over pays me. My income isn't being just reduced it is being eradicated. I don't do this as a hobby, it pays the mortgage and the for the kids. You will be majorily inconvenienced, but I will be out of a job.
>

ElBarco wrote: »

I will be going to stock up before the pharmacists imposed deadline. I'll also be giving the pharmacist my opinion and writing to my TD telling them that I wont be impressed if they back down to stupid bully boy tactics by the IPU.

You might want to stock up before you give your pharmacist your opinion so. HSE guidelines are very strict on how much supplies they will pay for a patient, so there will be limitations too. You don't want to know the rights and wrongs. but you have just stated you are backing the government. Your choice! >

ElBarco wrote: »

Seriously, I don't want to be your football in this. Go and lobby the government if you feel you are being unfairly treated.

I can understand fully that you don't want to be a football in this, but you are. Goverment has the pitch and the ref too. We have lobbied the goverment. We have been told 'the lady is not for turning' and that they will follow the party line on this. Brian Cowen has expressly told them not to listen to lobbying by pharmacits. If anyone can come up with an approach that doesn't involve patients and doesn't involve me trading under the new regime or closing shop I for one would be very interested.>

ElBarco wrote: »

Is there any list of what pharmacists are or aren't involved? If there is I'll be ensuring my business goes to one who respects their customers.

www.ipu.ie website has a list of pharmacies who are involved. Better ring the pharmacy you are thinking of going to who are not listed to make sure. Also make sure all your prescriptions are up to date and accurate and give your new pharmacy plenty of time to make sure they get all the drugs you need. I would do this in parallel to stocking up and would do it soon. Remember there will be a lot of patients in the same position as you and they will all be going to same chemists. Last time there was a dispute like this Boots wrote to the HSE to tell them that they couldn't safely cope with an increase of more than 15% in prescritions (from memory, so figures might be slightly wrong, but that was the message). You need to do what is best for you and make sure your healthcare is provided for. Please don't get offended by my comments, I am just telling it the way I see it and am trying to be as honest as possible.

mr.impossible

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

Mine too.

I am honestly disgusted by this. They are threatening patients and not the government.

I intend to find an alternative pharmacist (hopefully one that has nothing to do with this disgraceful behaviour exists) and recommend that anyone I know do the same.

I am genuinely angered by this and I think these pharmacists should be made to pay through huge business losses. Regardless of outcome.

Have tried to threaten goverment, but nobodies listening. Not sure what would get their attention and not keen on doing a Guy Fawkes on it.You will be glad to know that Mary Harney agress with you that pharmacists need to pay through huge business losses, regardless of outcome.

mr.impossible

tbh wrote: »

Just to say - I think that the fact that the IPU are willing to use patients as pawns in a game of brinkmanship is absolutely disgusting. I would urge anyone from the IPU who may be reading to contribute here, because I'll tell you this - as and from tomorrow, I'm never getting my scrip filled ANYWHERE but Boots (who are not on the list) - no matter what way this turns out. I feel like we have been stabbed in the back, and I won't forget this quickly.

Boots may yet be the only choice. Local pharmacies are all but extinct in the USA. Big outlets like Walmart rule.Your thinking aligns with PD policy. The goverment have a responsilbility to get the drugs to you, simple as that. How those drugs get to you is not really their concern. What matters is to them is how cheap they can fulfill their obligation, not how convenient it is for you or what quality of service you get.

mr.impossible

ElBarco wrote: »

I understand that the pharmacists may have a valid issue with the HSE. I don't think that it's fair to use patients to pressure the government. We are not there to be used as political pawns.

The only fair way forward is to engage with the HSE.

If we or our representative body could engage with the HSE we would do it. The Department of Health and HSE are refusing all contact from us. This is a fait acompli.Furthermore the DoH and HSE does not recognise the right for the IPU to act on our behalf as they regard it as breach of Competition Law, eventhough the EU have clarified that it would not be and that it is the normal practice across the EU for collective bargaining for healthcare professionals.I understand that everybody here is angry, but hitting out at pharmacists is exactly what Mary Harney wants. Your services are being cut by the HSE, yet you scream at the pharmacists. I fully realise that we are in a recession and that savings are going to be made, but I do not accept that this has to involve causing the closure of up to a third of pharmacies. The first principle of blood donation is to leave the donor alive!Every pharmacists is prepared to take a cut (and I am sure some can afford more than others, likewise some less) but what FF/Green/PD are doing (not proposing - this is in and effective since July 1st) is a wanton destruction of local pharmacies.Those that do not close will be laying off staff and the quality of service you receive will suffer. You will be queing longer and your drugs will be less likely to be waiting on the shelf for you (as stock holding won't be viable for more expensive or less used items).You are right - it is you the patients who will suffer. It has happened to many other areas of the healthcare system and it is happening here now to. You will still get your drugs, but your quality of care will suffer.By all means curse at the pharmacists, but channel even a bit of that anger at the architects of the healthcare plan for Ireland.No matter what happens you will still be needing your medication. No use grumbling that things were better in the old days. I won't care as I will be done with community pharmacy in Ireland.

mr.impossible

mike65 wrote: »

How come Boots have decided to stay out of this? And what do I need to do if I want to swap to Boots? Just recover my LTI book from my pharmacist and walk down the street? Or do I have to go back to my Doctor (50 euro please!) for some scrap of papar?

Here is the previous thread on this subject for anyone interested (Oct 2007)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156817

You can just recover your LTI book from your pharmacy (if they are holding it for you, though personally I would always hang on to my own LTI book!) and if the LTI book is up to date (ie has a valid prescription which is still valid - remember prescriptions are normally only valid for 6 months) you can just wlak down the street. If you don't have an up to date prescription (in which case your local pharmacy was kindly breaking the law for you, and could - as the HSE has informed in a letter recently to pharmacies -be charged with defrauding the HSE). I would make sure the new pharmacy has your medication in stock or else make sure they have time to get it in. Most items are easy to get quickly, but some (such as unlicensed) take a bit longer. Stock up and allow plenty of time . Also make sure Doc has everything you need on the prescription and doses etc. up to date. Ultimately it is only you who can ensure your healthcare is taken care of.

Kurtosis

First of all, I'd like to declare my interest as a pharmacy student (still in university) and I have no relations/connections in community pharmacy.

The posts by locum-motion both on this thread but especially on the two threads on the askaboutmoney site are very clear, informative and I found they helped clarify the areas of the current situation that I found difficult to follow. I would ask anyone who has any doubts over what is going on to please read through these threads if you have time (here and here) to get a clearer view of all the sides of what's going on (not just the Joe Duffy and Dept of Health points of view)

From the brief few weeks I've spent doing work experience in pharmacies, I've found that the handful of pharmacists I've encountered cared deeply about the patients under their care and would go out of their way to help them. As has already been said, try go talking to your local pharmacist about what's happening instead getting angry with them. They'll know best what their own situation is, what they will be doing on August 1st and what would happen to their pharmacy is these cuts come in. I'm sure they will try to accommodate you to the best of their ability with regards to stocking you up for the start of August with all of your medicines.The pharmacists are finding this situation very difficult and troubling and some support and co-operation will hopefully help and bring this dispute to a very quick end (or prevent it from going ahead all together).

ElBarco

Again, I'd just point out that I understand that pharmacists may have a valid argument with the HSE.

This is obviously an emotive topic with patients - you are effectively cutting off supplies to us. You having a point doesn't make it easy for us to swallow. If there is another option (switching to Boots/whatever other pharmacy is available) I'm going to take it.

This may mean that we all switch to the big multiples, you have to understand that regardless of any relationship we may have with local pharmacies we're going to follow the product in this case. This could well result in patients staying with them going forward, purely because they now represent less hassle - corporate culture or not.

I was speaking with my pharmacist this morning. I have my LTI book (always thought it was a good idea to hang onto it) and I was explaining that I wouldn't have a choice but to switch. At this point they changed tack and told me that under no circumstances would they leave patients without medication - I'm not sure how they plan to accomlish this when every other source says they'll be withdrawing the service from 1st August. Maybe the more patients who inform them they'll be switching if this goes ahead the more reasonable they become.

frodi

As you can see by my avatar I'm a pharmacist and I am on the IPU list of those you will not be dispensing govt schemes from 1st Aug.

I have no choice. These cuts put me in a reckless trading situation. Under company law I am personally responsible for the companies losses from 1st July (cuts actually came into affect last Wed) I should have stopped trading on 1st July as this is what company law says I must do. However FEMPI says that I have to give 30 days notice which I have done.

This kills me. I re-mortgaged our family home and have given personal guarantees on other business loans to set up my pharmacy. I have spent the last 6 years building it up. I have a small (by average Irish Pharmacy standards) patient base and I know most of them personally. I don't even have the option of going back to work as an employee pharmacist as the Pharmacy act 2007 (more Harney) forbids an undischarged bankrupt from practicing as a pharmacist.

Like then others above I know that cutbacks are the order of the day but fair play all round. 8% for other professionals and 36% for pharmacists. A Dept of Health and a HSE that will not even talk to my representative body.

I will doing my utmost to facilitate my patients up to and after 1st august. Although not part of Govt schemes I will still be at the end of a phone and at my computer (unpaid) ready to pass on prescription details so that they can be dispensed to elsewhere.

Whats come next? I have worked for Boots and Unicare and I did not like the way pharmacy is practiced there. That's one of the reasons that I set up my own pharmacy. I have nothing against pharmacists who work for those multinationals but I want to deal with the same faces every day and I know that my patients prefer to see the same face look back at them over a period of years.

Harney has already said that she would like to see about 600 pharmacies close. If she gets her way it will be the Irish owned independents who will be put out business and tough luck if you happen to live in small village or town with no public transport to the next town to have a pharmacy.

Thanks for reading.

tbh

thanks for posting frodi. what can I say? I need to think about this, posts like yours are very helpful. thanks again.

mike65

Unfortunately there is little to think about, we can be sympathetic to them, they to us but only one of us is going to drop dead from lack of medication.

locum-motion

mike65 wrote: »

Unfortunately there is little to think about, we can be sympathetic to them, they to us but only one of us is going to drop dead from lack of medication.

Mike,
If you're of a mind to, you could help us out by pressuring your TDs. Ring them up with your story. Tell them you want to know what the contingency plan is. Tell them that "Go to Boots" is not a contingency plan.
All we want is the right to have the cuts negotiated, with our Union, in a fair and sustainable manner.
As soon as TDs realise this, and that the alternative is chaos as patients - like you - try to source their medicines from the pitifully small network of pharmacies that will remain, they will come to the table and the crisis will be over.
I'm sure it will not come to even one person dying or suffering serious harm. To say otherwise is scaremongering, I'm afraid.

Thanks for reading.

ElBarco

locum-motion wrote: »

Mike,
If you're of a mind to, you could help us out by pressuring your TDs. Ring them up with your story. Tell them you want to know what the contingency plan is. Tell them that "Go to Boots" is not a contingency plan.
All we want is the right to have the cuts negotiated, with our Union, in a fair and sustainable manner.
As soon as TDs realise this, and that the alternative is chaos as patients - like you - try to source their medicines from the pitifully small network of pharmacies that will remain, they will come to the table and the crisis will be over.
I'm sure it will not come to even one person dying or suffering serious harm. To say otherwise is scaremongering, I'm afraid.

Thanks for reading.

locum-motion I do understand where you are coming from and it has been informative reading some of the information posted. I would be more open to such a suggestion (contacting the TDs) if it was a campaign being run by pharmacists without the threat of withdrawing from the schemes and, as a result, cutting off supplies.

I honestly don't think I'd agree with the TDs changing their minds if it's as a result of the threats being made.

I hope I'm not coming off as being dismissive of the pharmacists but I'm really annoyed at this whole situation.

LegacyUser

Sorry for gatecrashing the party - I am also one of the pharmacists who has chosen to withdraw from the State schemes. In reply to the last message all i can say is that I am not threatening anyone.

The Minister for Health & Children has since the end of March 'extraordinary' powers to change our contract and fees without negotiation. She has done so. the law permits two actions from individual pharmacists - accept the 35% cut or give one months notice that you will no longer be part of the schemes (a private pharmacy defacto). I felt I had to choice but to withdraw - I was pushed in to it. The Minister is of the opinion now that she will arrange other pharmacists to dispense to my former patients. So the ball is with er and the Fianna Fail party - not me. I am happy to accept a cut proportionate to others and one that would allow me to remain working in this pharmacy and this community - who I live among and care about. But 35%?? With no manners, no notice, no apology, no negotiation - not even a letter (just a public announcement).

It is my opinion that no-one should drop dead - it is the responsibility of the Minister and FIanna Fail to make sure that does not happen - they have a contingency plan - ask them what it is

star-pants

I feel like a twit asking -- but can someone give me the gist of this?
I'm reading it but I'm not sure I quite understand.

The list of pharmacies (and more) are those that will be pulling out of the likes of DPS schemes etc? So those of us who use say DPS and only pay X per month will now have to pay the full whack of the meds?
I looked and our pharmacy is on the list, but they've said nothing to us. My mother's meds monthly... I don't even want to think how much it'd cost. And mine aren't cheap but are nothing in comparison to hers.

Am I understanding this correctly?
Sorry for seeming so dumb

ElBarco

Unregistered wrote: »

Sorry for gatecrashing the party - I am also one of the pharmacists who has chosen to withdraw from the State schemes. In reply to the last message all i can say is that I am not threatening anyone.

Is threat not the right term? Withdrawing a service people rely on?

The Minister for Health & Children has since the end of March 'extraordinary' powers to change our contract and fees without negotiation. She has done so. the law permits two actions from individual pharmacists - accept the 35% cut or give one months notice that you will no longer be part of the schemes (a private pharmacy defacto). I felt I had to choice but to withdraw - I was pushed in to it. The Minister is of the opinion now that she will arrange other pharmacists to dispense to my former patients. So the ball is with er and the Fianna Fail party - not me. I am happy to accept a cut proportionate to others and one that would allow me to remain working in this pharmacy and this community - who I live among and care about. But 35%?? With no manners, no notice, no apology, no negotiation - not even a letter (just a public announcement).

It is my opinion that no-one should drop dead - it is the responsibility of the Minister and FIanna Fail to make sure that does not happen - they have a contingency plan - ask them what it is

I too am of the opinion no-one should die. I'm glad we agree People will make alternative arrangements - probably with one of the big multiples. I can only speak for myself but I don't believe I'll be switching back.

ElBarco

star-pants wrote: »

I feel like a twit asking -- but can someone give me the gist of this?
I'm reading it but I'm not sure I quite understand.

The list of pharmacies (and more) are those that will be pulling out of the likes of DPS schemes etc? So those of us who use say DPS and only pay X per month will now have to pay the full whack of the meds?
I looked and our pharmacy is on the list, but they've said nothing to us. My mother's meds monthly... I don't even want to think how much it'd cost. And mine aren't cheap but are nothing in comparison to hers.

Am I understanding this correctly?
Sorry for seeming so dumb

A list was kindly posted earlier:

wicklowgal wrote: »

Just found the link of the pharmacies that are intending to terminate their contracts with the HSE. These are the pharmacies that will NOT be providing LTI free of charge as and from the 1st of August 2009, this is unless things change between now and then.

http://www.ipu.ie/images/stories/pharmacies_who_have_given_notice_2_july_2009_-_6pm_2.pdf

It's my understanding that if you get your meds from one of the pharmacies withdrawing from the 1st of August you'll be expected to pay full whack. I know that my monthly total would be a scary number alright!

tbh

locum-motion wrote: »

Mike,
If you're of a mind to, you could help us out by pressuring your TDs. Ring them up with your story. Tell them you want to know what the contingency plan is.

You see, I would have been much more prepared to do this if you weren't holding a metaphorical gun to my head. What you're basically saying to the government is - "you think you can do it cheaper - go ahead" and shirking the responsibility you have for your customers, and holding the trust they place in you in total disdain. I appreicate how difficult this must be for pharmacies, as indeed life is tough for all of us. In my mind what you are doing is no different to going to an ER room with a sick child and being told "we're not being paid, let Mary Harney treat your child".

Tell them that "Go to Boots" is not a contingency plan.

It's my plan. Whether or not you sort out this dispute before August 1st, that's what I'll be doing from now on. It's just a pity that people outside cities can't do that now, but the way you guys are acting, it's only a matter of time.

No matter what the ins and outs are, that's how your customers are going to see the situation.

Carsinian Thau

tbh wrote: »

In my mind what you are doing is no different to going to an ER room with a sick child and being told "we're not being paid, let Mary Harney treat your child".

Even though I'm actively trying not to blame the pharmacists for all this (I'm adding it to my list of problems with the HSE):

This is genuinely what it feels like from a patient's perspective.

mp22

just found the list and all 3 chemists in the town are on it I wounder what heart desease is like without 500 euro of meds a month (wonder dose ms office have a last will template:p)

star-pants

ElBarco wrote: »

A list was kindly posted earlier:

Thanks - I'd had a look at that list already and saw mine is on it

It's my understanding that if you get your meds from one of the pharmacies withdrawing from the 1st of August you'll be expected to pay full whack. I know that my monthly total would be a scary number alright!

Ugh.... odd that they've said nothing to us. We've been customers for 18+ years.

ricardo1

tbh wrote: »

You see, I would have been much more prepared to do this if you weren't holding a metaphorical gun to my head. What you're basically saying to the government is - "you think you can do it cheaper - go ahead" and shirking the responsibility you have for your customers, and holding the trust they place in you in total disdain. I appreicate how difficult this must be for pharmacies, as indeed life is tough for all of us. In my mind what you are doing is no different to going to an ER room with a sick child and being told "we're not being paid, let Mary Harney treat your child".



It's my plan. Whether or not you sort out this dispute before August 1st, that's what I'll be doing from now on. It's just a pity that people outside cities can't do that now, but the way you guys are acting, it's only a matter of time.

No matter what the ins and outs are, that's how your customers are going to see the situation.

TBH
i think pharmacists are facing the scenario that they won't have the ER room funded hence it won't be there in the first place and by the time you get to the nearset one your child will be alot sicker. Vent your annoyance and anger at the HSE and HARNEY :mad:

LegacyUser

ElBarco wrote: »

Is threat not the right term? Withdrawing a service people rely on?



I too am of the opinion no-one should die. I'm glad we agree People will make alternative arrangements - probably with one of the big multiples. I can only speak for myself but I don't believe I'll be switching back.

El Barco - The HSE & DOHC gave me basically two options - accept the cut or give 30 days notice. This was the legally accepted way to go. So I gave 30 days notice. Now, I wonder what you would do in the same situation - if you were told accept 35% less or hand in your notice? And rememebr it is 35% gross - before you have to pay for rent, staff, electricity, etc. It is not a threat - it is my legal right - the only right left to me as a pharmacy contractor.

As regards talking about how it impacts on people. I am of the opinion that you do not know me. You do not know how caring I am and never will. But the people I live among and have served up till now do have a better idea. I work not only hard but I also care and do much that is not 'contracted' by the HSE - so I will focus my attention on my local community rather than this nameless website. I hope this can be resolved but you have no idea how deflating this is for a health care professional - this is something that I never envisaged happening - it goes very much against the grain. But then again, you do not know me - so go to Boots. They will give you your prescription in record time. And I will go and find a job elsewhere.

mr.impossible

FAQs

1. Why is this all happening so suddenly and how come nobody gave me any notice? How come I haven't heard from my pharmacist yet

Mary Harney posted a press release on the 18 June announcing that from 1st July pharmacists will be acting under new rates (approx 34% less). Most pharmacists were in shock and unsure what this meant to their businesses. Legislation just got signed in the other day. Most pharmacies have just given notice. If you haven't been in for your medication this month, you will not have heard yet.

2. Why are pharmacists so annoyed, sure isn't it a recession and didn't they know this was coming

Other health and allied professionals (Doctors, Chiropodists, Barrister) received an 8% cut under the same legislation. Fairness and equality would dictate that pharmacists would take same. This cut is massive!

3. 34% big deal, times are tough, you should be happy to have a job

This isn't a 34% off a wage, it's 34% off the business which pays the wages. For bigger shops in means making staff redundant (many are now on protective notice) and for smaller shops it can mean closure. It's not nice either way telling staff or patients.

4. But I need to keep getting my medication, why won't they keep giving my medication as per previous arrangements.

The legislation brought in has a clause which states that if you don't want to accept these new terms you can give 30 days notice and after that time shall be relieved of all responsibility under the state schemes

5. But I really need my medication, can they not continue to give the medication free/subsidised until this gets sorted

Once a pharmacy is out of the state schemes it receives no money what so ever from any of the state schemes. Yes, they can give it away free, but only for so long. Same as the ER, it won't operate long without funding. Not if the people working there don't have an alternative form of income. Pharmacists are people too with bills to pay, mortgages, children etc.

6. Can they really expect to keep open without state schemes

If the majority of their income was from those state schemes (and not from cosmetics, 3 for 2 offers etc.) then no. Some have looked at their books and seen they will be closing down eitherway (e.g. under new regime or without state schemes).

7. Why isn't 'go to Boots' a perfectly good contigency plan, that's what I plan to do. Pharmacy doesn't expect us to stick with them.

No pharmacy doesn't expect you to stick with them and pay. As for Boots,
there will be an awful lot of patients with the same idea. Boots isn't geared for the demand that will be placed on them. You can't suddenly start dispensing to 5x as many people overnight. It takes staff, stock and room.

8. Why are they threatening me, why can't they do something else which doesn't affect me

If I knew the answer to this I would be doing it. Please please tell me what I can do to at least even get the Dept of Health/HSE to talk to my union (IPU). Tell me how to lobby TDs who have been told by Brian Cowen and Mary Harney to ignore all lobbying and who have told me they are following the whip on this one and wish me best of luck.

Seriously, if anybody knows how to do this without destroying the trust and goodwill of my patients or the viability of my business (and doesn't put my family's security at risk) please please tell me.

LegacyUser

mr.impossible wrote: »

If I knew the answer to this I would be doing it.

Exactly! Please someone tell us what you would do instead of castigating us.

tbh

keep charging the old rates, subtract the difference from the vat, and fight the government in court.

Ausone

tbh wrote: »

keep charging the old rates, subtract the difference from the vat, and fight the government in court.

Most medicines don't attract Vat!
If Pharmacists withheld vat, they would be breaking the law.
The Government changed the Law, probably because pharmacists won the last High Court case.
Pharmacist have given 30 days notice under the new law.
This appears to be the only option that is not illegal.


Personally, I think it is an absolute disgrace that the Govt and pharmacists can't sit down and sort this out!

If you pay for your medicines, you may be a little inconvienced, you can claim the money back and against tax (at 20% only OUCH!)

What of the Medical Card patients!
Where do they go? Their GP's, local hospital, community care centre?
What is the HSE contigency plan?

We saw this before with Methadone, the previous spat last year, and again now, I bet the HSE have no plan!

I bet if the pharmacist go out for a month that there would be some bean counter in the HSE totting up the savings,8% of the total drugs bill for 2009, RESULT! The don't see the devastation it would cause!

locum-motion

tbh wrote: »

keep charging the old rates, subtract the difference from the vat, and fight the government in court.

That would land us all in jail very quickly, I'm afraid!