SEMI SOLID OAK 18mm lifting up - HELP PLEASE!!

Goll Mac Morna

We are hoping to move into our new house at the end of next month.
We have no doors skirting or architrave or second fix stairs fitted yet.

We put solid oak flooring 20mm nailed to plywood downstairs (this is a success)
Upstairs we opted for semi- solid oak 18mm.
We have concrete floors upstairs and we poured s concrete finish floor to leave enough depth for the semi-solid 18mm and underlay.

Our builder fitted the downstairs flooring and said he would also do the upstairs.
On advice we were told that this floor could be floated.
We asked the builder if he would float the floor.
He said he would prefer to have nailed it but that he would do it.

He used underlay (the usual white stuff) and started in one bedroom and did the entire upstairs all linked together.
He told me he wasn’t going to glue the boards together as it was “very messy” (I have my doubts about this), and that he was going to put some glue under the boards here and there at the edges to stop them separating.
I was dubious about this but he proceeded saying that he wanted to nail it and this was a type of compromise.
He did practically the whole floor bar one bedroom.

Lo and behold last weekend the floor has started to buckle up and push up in certain areas e.g. hall, 2 bedrooms.
The colder damper weather came in and prob. affected this as we were awaiting a pellet delivery for the heating.
We were relying on electric heating but the heat had dropped.

THE HEAT IS NOW ON PROPERLY.
I’m not happy about this and need to find a solution.
At least the skirting and doors aren't on and stairs are not fully trimmed out.
1 Can we make cuts to allow the boards to allow them move?
2 Should we take it all up and glue it together to float it?
3 Should we take it all up and glue it to the floor?

Option 2 and 3 would be a real mess, but if they have to be done, they have to be done.
With the heat now on properly will the floors “come back?”?
I don't want this to be an ongoing problem in a brand new house.
Any advice would be gratefully appreciated
An Annoyed Goll

AckwelFoley

Hello

.

How long after pouring the concrete floor was the floor laid?
How long did they leave the flooring unpacked in the house to climatise to the mousture level of the house?
What moisture reading was on the timber floor and concrete floor when they laid it?
What are the dimensions of the upstairs area? .

You need to glue the joints. No COMPROMISE.

If you can answer some of the questions i can give you some suggestions to the cause.

smashey

Goll Mac Morna, I've moved this to Gardening/DIY. You'll get a lot more help there.

Goll Mac Morna

Thanks Smashey.
That's boardtastic!

Goll Mac Morna

Hello

.

How long after pouring the concrete floor was the floor laid?

Poured May (100mm) Had de-humidifier in for 2 weeks in Aug.
Plastering finished in April.
House had windows in in Sept. 2006 so has been drying a long time.

How long did they leave the flooring unpacked in the house to climatise to the mousture level of the house?
About 3 or 4 weeks, they didn't open all the packs as they had to carry them up a ladder to the upstairs.

What moisture reading was on the timber floor and concrete floor when they laid it?
none was taken

What are the dimensions of the upstairs area? .
1000 sq ft

You need to glue the joints. No COMPROMISE.

Thanks SNYPER

BUT HOW CAN WE FIX THIS NOW?

AckwelFoley

Im sorry to be blunt,

But the builder is the guy to fix that. Hes the person responsible for it.


Is the boards cupping or separating at the joints or is there just like a hump in the middle of the floor.

You really need to identify the problem first before you go tampering with the floor, because if you take too much off the ends it will shrink back far too much when it dries out,

Goll Mac Morna

there just like a hump in the middle of the floor.


this is what is happening in places.

I agree it's the builder's fault but he is taking a real hardline that "he wanted to nail it and you can't float floors thaT DEPTH 18MM"

I think he is resposible too- after all it was his call.
He shouldn't have approached the job if he had any doubt about the method

AckwelFoley

Goll Mac Morna wrote:

here just like a hump in the middle of the floor.
this is what is happening in places.

I agree it's the builder's fault but he is taking a real hardline that "he wanted to nail it and you can't float floors thaT DEPTH 18MM"

Your builder is being an idiot.

The problem is that moisture has been taken into the woden floor causind it to expand.

As concrete moves through its initial drying period, regular checking of moisture content can start after 30 days. In most cases it will take 60 days or more before the slab is dry enough for wood flooring installation to proceed. Excess moisture in the concrete will cause problems such as condensation or failure of the adhesive under the flooring.

Flooring contractors should make sure to rely on flooring manufacturers' recommendations for your definition of what qualifies as "acceptable moisture content," as well as for which type of moisture testing each manufacturer prefers and care should be taken to insure there is no confusion on the units of measurement.

Testing for moisture in concrete can be accomplished using specially designed and calibrated moisture meters, and there are also several types of physical tests that can be used. The most common types of tests are discussed later on

Ask your builder what moisture level % the conc was at before he laid the floor. If he cant answer this, you know hes bullsh1tting you and he never tested it which makes him responsible.

Nailing the floor would have made little difference in this case. I bet he never opened the packs in the house and left them opend 2 weeks before he laid the floor, did he?

ennisjim

If there is insufficient space around the floor to allow movement and expansion then perhaps this could be a contributing factor.

AckwelFoley

ennisjim wrote:

If there is insufficient space around the floor to allow movement and expansion then perhaps this could be a contributing factor.

Yes, well this is the reason it is lifting, but 15mm is enough for a semi solid floor, however if the floor was not dry enough or the wooden floor was not aloud to expand before being laid then an inch wouldnt be enough, hence all the questions i was asking.

Goll Mac Morna

It is a mixture of all the issues mentioned above.

1 The floor prob. didn't have enough time to dry before being put down---- they just opened the packs to put it down.

2 The moisture in the concrete might have been too high - but prob. not

3 The floor was glued along edges "to stop it moving" this I see as the big issue, the bloody thing can't move.

4 He has placed little wedges around all the edges, but they are still in place.

The floor is trapped and can't expand ---that is why it is going up.

Should we take the whole bloody lot up and start again???

AckwelFoley

Goll Mac Morna wrote:

It is a mixture of all the issues mentioned above.

1 The floor prob. didn't have enough time to dry before being put down---- they just opened the packs to put it down.

2 The moisture in the concrete might have been too high - but prob. not

3 The floor was glued along edges "to stop it moving" this I see as the big issue, the bloody thing can't move.

4 He has placed little wedges around all the edges, but they are still in place.

The floor is trapped and can't expand ---that is why it is going up.

Should we take the whole bloody lot up and start again???

With point 1, it not actually letting the floor dry when opening the packs, its about opening the packs and letting the floor absorb the moisture in the room and that it expands to its max size therefore allowing correct fitting, however the house must be dry frist so it doesnt absorb too much otherwise it will shrink back down too much!

Its fine to glue the edges, this prevents the ends from separating which is next to impossible to remedy

Wedges must come out.

If i was repairing the floor i would let the house dry out first, heat it and use a dehumidifier.

After a few weeks if the floor hasnt shrunk back abit - which it should a little, i would lift the floor at the edges that are hitting the wall, and use a circular caw to cut a strip along the edge of the floor to leave a min of 15mm around the entire floor between floor and wall. Then cover the gap with a timber bead, pinned to the shirting,. The corners need to be cut, a mitre box is a handy DIY way of doing this.

Honestly, get that asshole builder back. Fom what i heard from you - hes messing you around.

Goll Mac Morna

The floor has started to come back down a bit from its high of last Monday/ Tuesday.
A floor fella came over to look at it last night and said that there were no proper expansion gaps to allow the floor to move.

What the builder actually did was just slot the boards together with no glue and put some spots of glue underneath some of the boards along the edges of the floor.

The so called expansion gaps that are minimal to say the least are filled by timber wedges at the minute so the floor can't go anywhere.

I might have to have the whole lot taken up and put down again properly

(i.e. glued together and floated on matting with a good expansion gap)

If we have to take it all up again we could move in with the matting in place and just a couple of rooms done, and do the rest as and when we can..

I would prefer not to have to take it all up again, but I think that long term it is probably the best option for peace of mind that there will be no further problems with boards lifting up.

What do others think???