Points for using mobile phone while driving ... case now going to court!

Gandalf23

I was stopped by the Gardai in Crumlin last February for driving and talking on my phone at the same time. I didnt receive anything in the post ... no notification of the offense or fine or anything. The Gardai say a letter was sent, but because I moved into a new house around that time and was having problems with my post I just didnt get anything from them.

It now looks like I'll be going to court because I didnt respond to the summons. I have no problem taking the 2 penalty points and paying the fine, but I dont want to get extra points or pay an extra fine because this now looks like it'll go to court.

Anyone have any similar experiences or any opinions on this?

Thanks in advance ... G23

Anan1

If you never received a summons then how do you know you're going to court?:) Or do you mean that you didn't get the fine but you did get the summons?

fletch

Don't they have to send these things by registered post to ensure you actually get the letters?

MercMad

A judge will not accept moving house as an excuse, its up to you to update your vehicle ownership records AND there is a service provided by An Post to forward mail !

Explain first that you committed the offence and will accept the outcome and hope for the best............................thats assuming you actually get the chance to say anything, folk usually dont !

Have you a solicitor ?

Gandalf23

Apologies ... perhaps I should have been clearer :-)

I didnt get any notification by post of any penalty points or fine ... nothing! Earlier today the Guardai told me that this would be going to court because I didnt respond to the original notification of penalty points I received by post (which I didnt get!!!). Its automatic apparently ... anyone not responding to notification letters (for whatever reason) has to go to court to settle the matter. Presumably I'll have to plead my case and say I didnt get the original letter.

I was just wondering if anyone had any experience of this? I'm hoping and praying that it'll be as simple as just saying the letter didnt arrive and taking the 2 original points...

Gandalf23

MercMad wrote:

A judge will not accept moving house as an excuse, its up to you to update your vehicle ownership records AND there is a service provided by An Post to forward mail !

Explain first that you committed the offence and will accept the outcome and hope for the best............................thats assuming you actually get the chance to say anything, folk usually dont !

Have you a solicitor ?

The vehicle registration records are up to date ... the problem is that not ALL post is being delivered to my house properly. I'm not getting my Wired Magazine subscription for example, and back in February there were still builders around the site and I was on a snowboarding trip around that time aswell.

No I dont have a solicitor ... should I get one?

lynchie

fletch wrote:

Don't they have to send these things by registered post to ensure you actually get the letters?

Nope, they only send them by normal mail. The day I was in court, everybody was saying the same, never received anything but the summons.. judge had a go at the seargeant as to why they are not sent by registered post and the garda just spewed out some stuff about the road traffic act only requiring them to send via normal mail and that there is a presumption that the fine will be delivered by an post. Judge had none of it and offered everybody the chance to pay original fine and points.

lynchie

Gandalf23 wrote:

The vehicle registration records are up to date ... the problem is that not ALL post is being delivered to my house properly. I'm not getting my Wired Magazine subscription for example, and back in February there were still builders around the site and I was on a snowboarding trip around that time aswell.

No I dont have a solicitor ... should I get one?

Admit the offence, explain your situation with the post. Make sure you make it clear that you did update your registration details when you moved and that the issue is not that you forgot to update them but that there was a more general issue with post delivery in your estate. More than likely he may allow you to pay the original fine and take the original points. As for needing a solicitor.. probably not, unless you don't feel comfortable talking to the judge.

Gandalf23

Thanks for all the excellent replies guys and gals ... much appreciated.

On a side note ... does anyone know if I'll have to swear an oath if/when this goes to court?

Seth Brundle

Gandalf23 wrote:

On a side note ... does anyone know if I'll have to swear an oath if/when this goes to court?

Does it matter? Were you thinking of lying?

miju

Gandalf23 wrote:

I'm hoping and praying that it'll be as simple as just saying the letter didnt arrive and taking the 2 original points...

TBH the chances are very high that the judge will think your pulling a fast one by trying not to pay the fine and now are coming up with a poor excuse (I believe your genuine BTW) and give you the full 4 points and fine without even batting an eyelid

Have you any idea how many times a day a judge hears the excuse "I swear I never recieved the notice judge"

If I were you I'd not hold out much hope and thats genuinely me not trying to put the shits up you either, best of luck in court I hope it goes your way

UrbanFox

Paradoxicaly a DJ some time ago announced that he was no longer prepared to accept the "non receipt" of the original document as an excuse.

I really think that it should be sent by registered post as it is just not acceptable to be a hostage to the caprice of An Post who are not the most reliable outfit.....

agent_smith

Were I you, I would call down to the garda station in question and ask to speak to the garda making the summons. Tell him/her (nicely and politely) yoru situation. That either it was sent to teh wrong address or that you did not get it and you are quite happy to take the points on the chin and pay your fine.
If it then goes to court you can explain to the judge that you did your best to pay the fine, you explained the situation to the garda. It may not even get to ourt if you are lucky. Either way I would not worry. Most of the judges are decent and human. They are not stupid and will not accept silly excuses but at the same time they are fair for obvious examples especially if you are seen to have made an effort to rectify the situation when you became aware.

AntiVirus

It will go to court.

I tried to pull a fast one by not paying a speeding fine and used the common excuse of I just forgot to pay it. Had to go to court up in Cavan.

I couldn't be bother driving up there on a Monday morning so I got a local solicitor to appear on my be half and ask for an extension to pay the fine as I wasn’t contesting the speeding offence.

The judge extend the fine by 14 days, I paid the fine and got to points, bingo bongo everybody’s happy.

Gandalf23

Thanks for all the replies folks ... much appreciated. And I am telling the truth btw ... thats the way things really happened ... I just want to be well informed about my situation. The Guard who stopped me is on holiday for the next 10 days, I'll contact him when he gets back.

AntiVirus ... is it possible to get a solicitor to go to court in your place? I thought you would have to be present on the day???

AntiVirus

Gandalf23 wrote:

AntiVirus ... is it possible to get a solicitor to go to court in your place? I thought you would have to be present on the day???

You don't have to go to court if you get a solicitor to represent you.

I rang the gard who issued me with the summons and asked for the name of a good local solicitor to represent me.

Ofcourse on the date of the hearing I happened to be away in the US on business.

wyndham

You don't really need a solicitor as you are pleading guilty to the offence and the solicitor's fee would probably be more than the fine will be so you would be paying on the double. Solicitors are good at picking judges, ie if there is a cranky bollix on the bench that day who has a rep for being tough, they will try to find an excuse to get the case adjourned and hope a more amiable judge is sitting on the subsequent appearance date. Solicitors know or should know how judges are likely to react.

If you can bring something to show that you moved address at the time, ie a lease agreement, 2 bills in different addresses, holiday details,anything and get a hold of the garda beforehand to explain, you should be alright. If you are lucky the garda may speak up for you. You will be given the opportunity to speak so make sure you are prepared and proffer what documents you have with you. Show as much respect as possible, ie wear sharp tin of fruit, yes judge, no judge, would like to apologise to the court and the garda judge, no previous(if thats the case!!!), never do it again yada, yada, yada,

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AntiVirus wrote:

It will go to court.

I tried to pull a fast one by not paying a speeding fine and used the common excuse of I just forgot to pay it. Had to go to court up in Cavan.

I couldn't be bother driving up there on a Monday morning so I got a local solicitor to appear on my be half and ask for an extension to pay the fine as I wasn’t contesting the speeding offence.

The judge extend the fine by 14 days, I paid the fine and got to points, bingo bongo everybody’s happy.

AntiVirus wrote:

Ofcourse on the date of the hearing I happened to be away in the US on business.

You're the very type of person that leaves Judges suspicious and wary of the excuses genuine people give in court. Chancers ruin it on everybody else.:mad:

AntiVirus

Shane Kind Geology wrote:

You're the very type of person that leaves Judges suspicious and wary of the excuses genuine people give in court. Chancers ruin it on everybody else.:mad:

I'd have taken 4 points if thats what the Judge gave me.

He didn't.