Lanes at Traffic Lights

Steve

I agree that what you did was correct.
The relevant legislation seems to be in two parts

Part 30 of this says that you can't pass a red light.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html

Traffic Lights
30.(1) Where traffic sign number RTS 00I, RTS 002, RTS 003 or RTS 004 (referred to in these Regulations as traffic lights) is provided, a person shall not drive a vehicle past the traffic lights, or past traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line] where such sign is provided in association with the traffic lights when the red lamp of the traffic light is illuminated.

(2) A driver of a vehicle approaching traffic lights in which a non-flashing amber light is illuminated, shall not drive the vehicle past the traffic lights, or past traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line] when such sign is provided in association with the traffic lights, save when the vehicle is so close to the traffic lights that it cannot safely be stopped before passing the traffic lights or traffic sign number RRM 017.

(3)( a ) A driver of a vehicle facing traffic sign number RTS 00I, RTS 002 or RTS 003 in which the green lamp is illuminated may proceed beyond the traffic lights, or beyond traffic sign number RRM 017 [stop line] if such traffic sign is provided in association with the traffic lights, provided no other road user is endangered and subject to compliance with the relevant provisions of articles 8 and 29.
( b ) When traffic lights contain green lamps which indicate a directional arrow, a driver of a vehicle wishing to proceed in accordance with paragraph (a) in the direction indicated by the arrow may only do so when such lamp is illuminated.

The definitions of a traffic light & stop line are here in sections 33 and 21.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html

So, what you did was pass the signal while it was green - perfectly legal.

Slightly OT but, the bit that's interesting is that it does not seem to take into account lights that are on the exit side of a junction.

i.e. there's nothing to say you can pass the red light that is stopping the traffic on the crossing direction.

If you read this word for word, each light is an individual sign and the rules apply individually.

This would suggest that the only "legal" way to turn left or right would be to enter the junction and wait for the lights to change before exiting!!

Seems like madness.

Fey!

Not corroborated by anything, but if you pass the green light at the stop line to turn right, and the second light in front of you goes red, doesn't that mean that you are now under the control of the green light that comes on to your right, as you are on the piece of road it controls???

Confusing, I know, but I couldn't think of a better way of phrasing it!!!

Sully

As advised, im sending in a letter to the guard in question. Ill keep ye updated anyway.

J_R

Sully wrote:

Fair enough - but I cant say that in court. I need some sort of legislation or rule thats written down officaly that states the above. Thats my main problem now - despite what being told, I need something thats offical that states the above so I can prove my case.

I really dont want to end up with 5 points and a bigger fine, just for arguing that pretty much everyone is thought to drive that way!!

In my previous post gave a link to the Irish Independent where the RSA stated

Second light

The Road Safety Authority said it is up to each local authority to set the times on traffic lights and believed this was consistent throughout the country. It said the second light at the other side of a junction did not determine whether a motorist was fined.

Why not contact the RSA and ask them to clarify, and/or simply copy the article and drop into the Garda station concerned, have a chat with the Super'.

If it goes to court, contact the Irish Advanced Motorists - Driven by Safety., ask them if they would/could supply an expert to attend court, give evidence on how to negotiate a junction. (And how much they would cahrge)

Sully

Thanks J_R. Iv sent in a letter to the stations super. He promissed to look into it for me.

cushtac

Sully wrote:

Traffic was heavy, so the guards indicated to me that I can drive out (they will give way basically).

Unless the Garda actually beckoned you by hand, he didn't direct you into the junction.

If he did use his hand, you could argue you were following the directions of a Garda.

johnnyrotten

Without reading the other posts. You are entitled to enter a junction ( yellow box or not) if turning right. In fact if more people dis this, as they should , traffic would move better.

GoalsGoneWild

I'd definitely appeal that. Go back to the guard in question and ask him exactly what your offence was. If he describes the "offence" back to you as above, you can then point out that he's incorrect and get it quashed. If he says something else - e.g. that you were behind the line before you took the turn, you'll probably just have to take the punishment - regardless of whether the Garda is right or wrong about the offence.

Money is better in your pocket than theirs. Get to the Garda Station asap...

Victor

Sully wrote:

Once they became green, I moved out past the lines half way out on the rood waiting for traffic to break so I can fully turn right safely (no filter light at this spot).

Were you actually clear of the stop line and the pedestrian crossing?

littlejukka

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I got stopped for 'not riding on a cycle track where one was provided

as far as i am aware this is not an offense. it is up to the cyclist to decide whether to use the roadway or cycle path.

Wishbone Ash

cushtac wrote:

Unless the Garda actually beckoned you by hand, he didn't direct you into the junction.

If he did use his hand, you could argue you were following the directions of a Garda.

That was a seperate issue and not really connected with the main topic.

cyclopath2001

littlejukka wrote:

as far as i am aware this is not an offense. it is up to the cyclist to decide whether to use the roadway or cycle path.

SI182/1997, 14(3): "(3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided."

gingerhousewife

To the OP, I had almost this exact situation during my driving test last March. There I was, having moved into the junction to turn right, and the lights went red and I thought ok, I can do one of two things:

1 - complete the turn and clear the junction or
2 - stay where I am

I knew that if I got it wrong it would definitely be a grade 3 error and an automatic fail, as the examiner would either have decided I had run a red light, or that I had failed to make progress and caused an obstruction. I had a split second to decide what to do and knew how important the decision was. I did number one and passed the test (not so much as a grade 1 for that incident). So I would say you were definitely right, although I can't give you the exact piece of legislation proving same, which I realise is what you're looking for.

littlejukka

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

SI182/1997, 14(3): "(3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided."

at the discretion of the cyclist. i will not use a cycle lane if i think it is less safe than the adjacent roadway.

is there legislation for "all motor vehicles must be driven on a motor track where one is provided"? can i quote this to every one i find cutting in to or parked on a cycle lane which is apparently the only strip of ground i'm legally permitted to cycle on?

stupid comment. please keep them to yourself.

yayamark

psni wrote: »

When he handed you back your licence and said "Take it easy on the roads", he should have notified you of the fine there and then, and also that you would be receiving points for the offence.

If what you say is true, then in my experience, you have grounds for recourse through the courts, as it was your belief that to stay would have obstructed traffic, and that other oncoming cars failed to obey the orange light turning to red, thus preventing you from safely making the right turn, leaving you either stuck at a junction at a red light, or proceeding with caution around the corner, which you did safely.

If it were me, I'd be contesting on these grounds.

A Garda isnt obliged to tell you that there will be something in the post for you.