Irish Broadband Throttling BitTorrent?

garytuohy · 10-10-2007 9:25am

yeah it absolutely madness. Browsing speeds along but anything associated with downloaded trails along. I can't even get a file from download.com

Going to ring tonight

thebman · 10-10-2007 11:32am

ntlbell wrote:

no buisnesS? as it's their network/infrasrcutrue they're an entitled to do as they wish, you sir can then choose to accept it and pay or move on...

If they give you a contract and you sign it with them to provide a service and they stop providing it they are in breach of contract. You don't just move on, you demand a refund.

ntlbell · 10-10-2007 4:24pm

brim4brim wrote:

If they give you a contract and you sign it with them to provide a service and they stop providing it they are in breach of contract. You don't just move on, you demand a refund.

What service have they stopped providing?

CuLT · 10-10-2007 5:35pm

brim4brim wrote:

If they give you a contract and you sign it with them to provide a service and they stop providing it they are in breach of contract. You don't just move on, you demand a refund.

You might want to actually read that contract...

el dude · 10-10-2007 9:42pm

Speeds have been all over the shop for me the past few days. They seems to be back to normal for the time being, but i really don't see it staying that way.

Bambaata · 14-10-2007 11:47pm

speeds are no better for me. dl max in about 30 and upload is all over the shop. sometimes uo to 200! but generally 50 - 60. anyone find any info? i think im gona ring tomorrow but id be tagged as one to watch etc with the amount i dl and ul etc

Chaosopher · 18-10-2007 7:14pm

ntlbell wrote: »

What service have they stopped providing?

Well, as far as I'm concerned, unless there is a technical difficulty which affects the speeds which customers are paying for (with some form of notice, be it email/post/phone), then a significant reduction in connection speed (without any exceeding of bandwidth going on) would qualify as not providing a service.

I didn't read anything in my contract similar to "Irish Broadband has the right to reduce speeds by up to 90% without notice and for an unspecified reason/amount of time".

Random · 18-10-2007 7:20pm

Chaosopher wrote: »

Well, as far as I'm concerned, unless there is a technical difficulty which affects the speeds which customers are paying for (with some form of notice, be it email/post/phone), then a significant reduction in connection speed (without any exceeding of bandwidth going on) would qualify as not providing a service.

I didn't read anything in my contract similar to "Irish Broadband has the right to reduce speeds by up to 90% without notice and for an unspecified reason/amount of time".

It's covered in the terms .. I believe it's something about allocating resources to ensure stability of the service as a whole.

They do have a bit which says if they change the contract unfairly you can cancel though - I think.

Full T&C are on www.irishbroadband.ie

ntlbell · 18-10-2007 8:27pm

Chaosopher wrote: »

Well, as far as I'm concerned, unless there is a technical difficulty which affects the speeds which customers are paying for (with some form of notice, be it email/post/phone), then a significant reduction in connection speed (without any exceeding of bandwidth going on) would qualify as not providing a service.

I didn't read anything in my contract similar to "Irish Broadband has the right to reduce speeds by up to 90% without notice and for an unspecified reason/amount of time".

Maybe you didn't read anything.

Try the section on multiple network connections

Nephew · 20-10-2007 7:10pm

I guess they must be throttling torrents, for the past six weeks all my high seeded torrents on 3mb breeze have been crawling at speeds of 0.3kb/s up to 13kb/s, occasionally they'll go up to 120kb/s for a few minutes. Compare this with a few months ago when I was getting 345kb/s on similar torrents. All other downloads are fine. I think this is the straw that broke the camels back and I'll be switching to someone else after two and a half years of very poor to middling service.

el dude · 20-10-2007 10:14pm

I got an email back a few days ago from IBB saying this.

"We do not as a company shape or block traffic on customer connections. As the T&C states below you would be informed if we were going to make any adjustment to your connection, which we have not. I will escalate the issue to Eircom whose exchange we use and get them to check the phone line."

Is it possible that it could be Eircom doing the throttling as they seem to own everything. I'm reluctant to switch back to DigiWeb if it's all going to be for nothing in the end. Why don't IBB just introduce a cap if they want to control how much people are downloading.

prof_darkins · 21-10-2007 7:28pm

Yes, i would much prefer a cap. The reason that they havent done that I would say is because now they can still say "we've no cap" to new customers, who go "ahh deadly, i'll be able to get lotsa films then, better go with them" and they sign up, only to find when they load up BT they get worse speeds than they would with almost any other provider. *sigh* what happened to you Irish Broadband? You used to be cool...

Bambaata · 22-10-2007 12:46am

el dude wrote: »

I got an email back a few days ago from IBB saying this.

"We do not as a company shape or block traffic on customer connections. As the T&C states below you would be informed if we were going to make any adjustment to your connection, which we have not. I will escalate the issue to Eircom whose exchange we use and get them to check the phone line."

Is it possible that it could be Eircom doing the throttling as they seem to own everything. I'm reluctant to switch back to DigiWeb if it's all going to be for nothing in the end. Why don't IBB just introduce a cap if they want to control how much people are downloading.

im wirelessly connected so no eircom aint doing anything to me

ntlbell · 22-10-2007 10:45am

prof_darkins wrote: »

Yes, i would much prefer a cap. The reason that they havent done that I would say is because now they can still say "we've no cap" to new customers, who go "ahh deadly, i'll be able to get lotsa films then, better go with them" and they sign up, only to find when they load up BT they get worse speeds than they would with almost any other provider. *sigh* what happened to you Irish Broadband? You used to be cool...

"normal" useage on the IBB network has been close to perfect for a number of months now.

"BT" is not normal usage.

Your standard HTTP traffic should get you close your assigned bandwidth allocation e.g. 2/3/mb along with contention, so for the most part you should get the full whack, same goes for FTP traffic.

now if the whole network is working fine for "general usage" traffic regardless of what there T&C is or their customer support says they aren't going to give two hoots about few people who want to download every illegal bit of crap that they can get their hands on which in turn in general ruins the network for everyone else.

If your not happy with it go to an ISP that will.

el dude · 22-10-2007 11:17am

So why not just bring in a cap. That way everyone's happy....Aren't they? Well i would be. And why is BT not considered normal usage. Not all BT is illegal like.

ntlbell · 22-10-2007 11:54am

el dude wrote: »

So why not just bring in a cap. That way everyone's happy....Aren't they? Well i would be. And why is BT not considered normal usage. Not all BT is illegal like.

They're not claiming it's legal, lets not tit for tat for this and claim "I use BT to download linux ISO's" the majority of is illegal rubbish.

In IBB's T&C's they do ramble on about ilegal downloads but at the end of day I'm sure they couldn't care less it's the nature of how BT works which causes the problem on the network and when you have a lot of people on the same segment using it other people suffer.

99% of Ireland want a non capped service, you're saying everyone would be happy with a capped one.

A huge percentage of people want very low latency 25ms or less in order to game, blah blah blah blah.

You can't deliver everything, for everyone so if you want a capped service that allows you to use BT at full rate then go to another ISP?

It's as easy as you make it.

thebman · 22-10-2007 11:56am

Providers just don't like supporting it as it puts pressure on upload and download.

If they are going to limit torrents they should explicitly say so.

One of the guys in the house was downloading something the other night and got 70KB/s though so I think they are only limiting heavy users.

Red Alert · 22-10-2007 11:58am

If they throttle torrents or provide a "web only" service then that is what it should be billed as.

ntlbell · 22-10-2007 12:06pm

Red Alert wrote: »

If they throttle torrents or provide a "web only" service then that is what it should be billed as.

Firstly what's "web only"

As the T&C's state you're not suppose to run any services e.g. HTTPD/SMTPD/IMAPD/FTPD etc etc which the normal Joe User won't generally be doing anyway.

So joe soap is browsing the web/mail/FTP etc which you can do on the IBB network, to break each ISP down into technicalities is pointless.

so what are we calling web only? http? https? smtp? pop? imap? ftp? imaps? ssh? telnet? sftp? finger? where does it start where does it end?

there's nothing they don't allow from all the above so is it web only?

el dude · 22-10-2007 1:52pm

ntlbell wrote: »

99% of Ireland want a non capped service, you're saying everyone would be happy with a capped one.

That's complete bull****. Half the people out there don't even know what a cap is ffs. And if 99% of the people wanted it wouldn't they all be with IBB seeing as they're the only people that offer. Well to my knowledge they're the only ones.

MrVestek · 22-10-2007 2:24pm

brim4brim wrote: »

Providers just don't like supporting it as it puts pressure on upload and download.

If they are going to limit torrents they should explicitly say so.

One of the guys in the house was downloading something the other night and got 70KB/s though so I think they are only limiting heavy users.

They couldn't distinguish who's who if you're sharing the connection through a network. I mean, how could they tell that it was you and not someone else using the connection eh?

ntlbell · 22-10-2007 2:35pm

el dude wrote: »

That's complete bull****. Half the people out there don't even know what a cap is ffs. And if 99% of the people wanted it wouldn't they all be with IBB seeing as they're the only people that offer. Well to my knowledge they're the only ones.

I'm not sure what your point is?

people don't understand what a capped service is??

The one's who don't use other ISP's other than IBB

ok?

but what's that got to do with anything?

thebman · 22-10-2007 3:01pm

Achilles wrote: »

They couldn't distinguish who's who if you're sharing the connection through a network. I mean, how could they tell that it was you and not someone else using the connection eh?

I was talking about heavy IBB users not limiting me but not the other guy in my house which would be impossible.

I don't really use torrents at all. Its mostly one guy in the house that uses them.

el dude · 22-10-2007 6:32pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is?

people don't understand what a capped service is??

The one's who don't use other ISP's other than IBB

ok?

but what's that got to do with anything?

You said that 99% of people want unlimited download. Which is daft, seeing as the majority of people don't even use torrents, so in reality have no need to care what their cap is.

Nephew · 22-10-2007 10:39pm

This is bloody ridiculous, I have eight high seeded torrents open and I have a total download speed of 2.5kb/s and 14kb/s upload. Everything else is fine except for torrents.

ntlbell · 23-10-2007 10:03am

el dude wrote: »

You said that 99% of people want unlimited download. Which is daft, seeing as the majority of people don't even use torrents, so in reality have no need to care what their cap is.

I'm daft.

el dude · 23-10-2007 2:28pm

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm daft.

:rolleyes:

ntlbell · 23-10-2007 3:30pm

Eye's in the air, how cutting.

Lets take a family of two adults two kids.

Daddy gets up and downloads his email, pops on his favorite online stream to get the latest news and browses a few news sites before he heads to work.

Mad little joxer in from school after hearing all the kids talking about the orange box game they're going to be playing later that night decides he wants to download this too so set's it off before having an aul bit of dinner and his homework. Not sure how big Orange box is but I'll have a wild guess of 1gb per game 5 games 5GB of Traffic for joxer, down fly his games.

Jacinta comes in pops her Ipod into the pc starts downloadiing the latest boy/pop band albums to her ipod, opens up bebo chatting with her friends and watching a a load of you tube video's. and film trailers, she's also a fan of the SIMS she downloads the 1.5GB demo!

Now Joxer's back to play Team Fortress with all his buddies.

Daddy's back on later on with his laptop finishing off a bit of work again listening to maybe a podcast of his favorite show that he missed during the day maybe grab some music for the car the following day.

This is before joxer learns about downloading illegal games and divx's etc

This family could use up a lot of bandwidth over a 30 day period knowing about caps or not.

now if they had an 8GB cap it's nearly blown in one day with joxer and his orange box all ready.

claiming the only people who need a lot of bandwidth are morons downloading every film and soap they can get their hands is utter nonsense, and assuming the majority of people are ignorant to caps etc is just insulting people's intelligence, ISP's wouldn't advertise non capped service if didn't matter to people.

MrVestek · 23-10-2007 5:32pm

Nephew wrote: »

This is bloody ridiculous, I have eight high seeded torrents open and I have a total download speed of 2.5kb/s and 14kb/s upload. Everything else is fine except for torrents.

Well think of it this way, alot of OTHER ISPs seems to be traffic shaping at the minute, what makes you think that this wouldn't be affecting your other peers and seeders, thus affecting the connection to you eh?

el dude · 23-10-2007 6:06pm

ntlbell wrote: »

Eye's in the air, how cutting.

Lets take a family of two adults two kids.

Daddy gets up and downloads his email, pops on his favorite online stream to get the latest news and browses a few news sites before he heads to work.

Mad little joxer in from school after hearing all the kids talking about the orange box game they're going to be playing later that night decides he wants to download this too so set's it off before having an aul bit of dinner and his homework. Not sure how big Orange box is but I'll have a wild guess of 1gb per game 5 games 5GB of Traffic for joxer, down fly his games.

Jacinta comes in pops her Ipod into the pc starts downloadiing the latest boy/pop band albums to her ipod, opens up bebo chatting with her friends and watching a a load of you tube video's. and film trailers, she's also a fan of the SIMS she downloads the 1.5GB demo!

Now Joxer's back to play Team Fortress with all his buddies.

Daddy's back on later on with his laptop finishing off a bit of work again listening to maybe a podcast of his favorite show that he missed during the day maybe grab some music for the car the following day.

This is before joxer learns about downloading illegal games and divx's etc

This family could use up a lot of bandwidth over a 30 day period knowing about caps or not.

now if they had an 8GB cap it's nearly blown in one day with joxer and his orange box all ready.

claiming the only people who need a lot of bandwidth are morons downloading every film and soap they can get their hands is utter nonsense, and assuming the majority of people are ignorant to caps etc is just insulting people's intelligence, ISP's wouldn't advertise non capped service if didn't matter to people.

About as cutting as your previous response.

What your describing there is hardly the average family though now is it......Well......anyway none of use have any facts or statistics to back up anything of what we're saying so there's really nowhere this argument can go.

Irish Broadband Throttling BitTorrent?

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