why are the garda so afraid of licenced guns??

les45

With respect to RRPC and his or her observations on Practical Pistol , it is not a sport similar to Cowboys and Indians , it has no relationship whatsoever with firearms tactical training . The recent European IPSC Match was organised by the French Federation of Shooting , the French Federation represents all shooting disciplines in France including ISSF !!!. Why we are constantly berated in relation to Practical Shooting I simply do not know , many many Garda Districts have issued pistol permits for practical pistol shooting , some have not . In all cases where a IPSA member has applied for a second or third licence they have being issued . I would on behalf of the IPSC shooters living in Ireland ask that in future Cowboy and Indians , Military etc comments are kept to ones self . If the French Federation has accepted our sport as well as a number of other National Federations than ladies and gentlemen of the ISSF world maybe it is time that Ireland did the same . IPSC members living in Ireland are all licenced firearms holders , to compete in a IPSC approved match they most complete and pass a two day course , to become a Range Officer will take at least 18 months with a total of 100 Hrs formal tuition and at least 6 trips abroad to aquire the necessary match experience . We work very hard at developing our sport , if you care to comment then please come and visit a IPSC approved match we dont bite

John FitzGerald RD I.P.S.A

cantona

Kryten, there are 80 fully paid up regions and 8 provisional regions in IPSC at present. At the recent Europeans there were shooters from 42 countries(not all of them European). Onwards and upwards

V Bull

I think if anyone is to make any kind of comment about a certain type of pistol shooting ie Practical Pistol, then they should know at least a little bit about.

Obviously rrpc hasnt got a clue about Practical...............and probably doesnt want to know.

Those interested in Practical Shooting and it's history of 30 years without an accident or incident should look up this websites with links..........www.ipsc.org..............www.ipscireland.org (still under construction).

Well done to all of the Irish Squad who went to France last week.........

astraboy

Did anyone happen to see the article in the Sunday Times main section under the heading "Do not give the guardi guns, let alone our trigger happy citizens"? It was a usual comment/opinion piece, in fact the majority was regarding gun crime but the last couple of paragraphs used the usual lazy journalist logic of comparing the number of legally held firearms and gun crime, and then sprouted off some guff about the increase in handgun licenses and how people are being given greater rights to protect themselves in their homes! Now we all know 99% of people that go to the trouble of getting a legally licensed handgun are doing so for sport, practical or target shooting. I see absoutley no problem with this, but such poor journalism is going to give people a bad preception of handguns and their owners.

An interesting stat, the state of Flordia found that handgun owners were the MOST law abiding group in the state. And Flordia gives out more permits to carry a concealed handgun then 48 of the states in the US. I am not for a moment say we adopt US gun laws, but it show that people that are willing to prove they are capable of safetly owning a firearm are not going to do anything to jepordise their hobby of shooting. The same applies in Ireland.

spideog7

You can't really look to the past to justify the fact that you think Ireland's gun laws need to be less restrictive. Because to date we all have to go through the paper work and difficulty of going to get a cert. I think if things were relaxed a little then headers or nutters (as they have been refered to in this thread) will be able to get licenses more easily and cause the kind of problems which promote a complete ban. I think it is in everyone's interest to keep the restrictive availability of firearms.
I do think that there should be a clearer set of guidelines to follow, but I also have faith in the Gardai and leaving it to their discretion is not the worst idea in the world. The Gardai in any area deal with alot of the people who are "not the full shilling" and definitely know most if not all of the criminals in that area, even if they can't pin anything on them. Imagine a criminal whose as guilty as sin but just hasn't been caught for anything yet, walking into a garda station and applying for a licence and the Gardai powerless to stop him.... because he has rights etc. etc.
Relaxing laws can become a slippery slope and eventually might cause more problem's than it solves. Anyone who is really interested should not be afraid to jump through a few hoops to satisfy the powers that be.

Sorry for going a bit off topic... yea I think Gardai need to be better trained on firearms and should be more aware of the types and capabilities and their applications/uses. Perhaps it would only be practical for a firearms officer to be this enlightened but even one per station or district would be a start.

Dark_lord_ire

Most of you seem to overlook the fact that most rural crime is done by criminals looking for guns and even though people have a gun safe in the house. Are you going to say "i'm not giving you a key" to a guy with a knife to your neck in bed? Petty criminals would only be to delighted to get handguns, take a look at most armed raids, most are done with stolen shot guns. My thoughts on the matter All guns should be banned execpt for Military and Police, maybe for hunting but thats it nothing else.

astraboy

Dark_lord_ire wrote:

Most of you seem to overlook the fact that most rural crime is done by criminals looking for guns and even though people have a gun safe in the house. Are you going to say "i'm not giving you a key" to a guy with a knife to your neck in bed? Petty criminals would only be to delighted to get handguns, take a look at most armed raids, most are done with stolen shot guns. My thoughts on the matter All guns should be banned execpt for Military and Police, maybe for hunting but thats it nothing else.

What about target shooting, clay shooting etc. Thousands of people enjoy shooting every week in this country. To ban all firearms is a silly move and lets be honest, if a criminal can import a ton of coke on a yacht he can easily get his hands on an Uzi or two. Law abiding gun owners do not buy their guns to stroke them and keep people off their property, they do so to enjoy a sport that is too often the target of comments like yours. If we ban guns why not ban hurleys or knives as you can kill someone with those as well?

@spideog7 I agree with most of what you say. I just wish for more clarity in our licensing system and to make it simpler for people to navigate. This whole thing of one super saying one thing is gospel and another super saying the opposite is silly and makes it more difficult for people to become genuine members of the sport.

BryanL

most rural crime is done by criminals looking for guns

did you pluck that from the sky or where did it come from?
Bryan

cavan shooter

Dark Lord, to say that most rural crime is in relation to obtaining firearms, is untrue, most rural crime tends to focus on old people who are seen to have money "under the mattress", yes if they see a safe and they persumably can get it off the wall they'll take it. Thankfully holding families hostage to obtain items in a house is very rare and considering that most firearm holders have panic alarms fitted with there alarms it doesn't make sense.

As for Banning Guns Why......?
I really want to know how many legally held firearms have been used in robberies. People have been robbed with sharpened philips screwdrivers,syringes, kitchen knives, lumps of wood. The point I am making is that if you are intent on doing harm there is readily available weapons without doing your back in lifting someones safe.

I keep saying that the most appropriate way of controlling firearms exists already in legislation. A person is allowed to have a fire arm if they have good reason. Credit card style licencing with bar code that allows to keep track on the ammunition you buy very quickly it becomes clear whether you are using the firearm or it sits under the bed.

Saddlebags

Trojan911 wrote:

I agree in the sense that it is a straightforward process. I don't believe the Gardaí are afraid to issue FAC's. You apply for your licence, fit the criteria & get your licence, similar to a ticky box situation. If you don't meet the criteria you don't get your licence whether it be pulse information i.e drunkeness etc, pre/cons or cautions etc that disentitle you from holding one. That then is down to the Gardaí making reprsentations in court for the refusal.

TJ911...

Only in the ideal world, believe me!
What about when you tick all the boxes and are STILL refused?

alan123

Saddlebags wrote:

Only in the ideal world, believe me!
What about when you tick all the boxes and are STILL refused?

Dont wear a t-shirt that says "Im Elmur Fudd on cocaine"!!!

SMERSH

Saddlebags wrote:

Only in the ideal world, believe me!
What about when you tick all the boxes and are STILL refused?

Move away from Kilkenny! (I know that it is not possible)

I was talking to another .223 owner recently who was surrendering his pride and joy as he could not get his FAC renewed. Very sad indeed.

bunny shooter

SMERSH wrote:

Move away from Kilkenny! (I know that it is not possible)

I was talking to another .223 owner recently who was surrendering his pride and joy as he could not get his FAC renewed. Very sad indeed.

Why couldn't he renew FAC ?

SMERSH

The person could not get his FAC renewed for his .223 beacuse the super in Kilkenny is such a nice guy and he wants to protect us from ourseleves. :mad:

Trojan911

Saddlebags wrote:

Only in the ideal world, believe me!
What about when you tick all the boxes and are STILL refused?

What's the issue?

TJ911...

alan123

SMERSH wrote:

Move away from Kilkenny! (I know that it is not possible)

I was talking to another .223 owner recently who was surrendering his pride and joy as he could not get his FAC renewed. Very sad indeed.

Once initially granted I would imagine he cant refuse renewal (unless you have done something untoward in the interim!!)?

Sparks

Well, technically no, a superintendent can refuse or revoke a cert at any time given reason (and that reason might not be related to the licencee). He does have to give that reason though.

Saddlebags

alan123 wrote:

Once initially granted I would imagine he cant refuse renewal (unless you have done something untoward in the interim!!)?

Heard about this one too. I believe that the licence for the .223 was initially amended from a .22 and when it surfaced for renewal it was refused.

Our man in Havana

Are you saying that there was never such a thing as a .223 licence to begin with?

bunny shooter

Bond-007 wrote:

Are you saying that there was never such a thing as a .223 licence to begin with?

You have to reappy for a new licence, down our way anyway

Saddlebags

Bond-007 wrote:

Are you saying that there was never such a thing as a .223 licence to begin with?

That is what I was told re one case but I believe there to be more than this one refusal.

alan123

What about the .222?!

bunny shooter

alan123 wrote:

What about the .222?!

Haven't seen one since 223 was availabe. They seemed to loose favour as soon as 223 licences were issued.

foxhunter

alan123 wrote:

What about the .222?!

There is also the .204 to consider ive never used one myself but i hear they are ok too

cavan shooter

I know a friend of mine that had is 22 mag changed and the ammendment was a stroke of the pen. Didn't have to reapply argument from guard it's still 22 caliber.

Now has for Supers not issuing 223 licences or re issuing 223 cause he doesn't like the look of it, that I'm afraid will end up in court and I cannot see the Super winning based on the fact that other districts issue.

There isn't enough guidance for the law that exists, and where you have no guidance we get interpretation/opinion (good and bad). Any news from the NARGC on this they are normally quick of the ball

bunny shooter

Local gun dealer rang Justice re ammending 22 licence to 223 and they advised you have to reapply as it's over 220 and as a result is not considered a vermin licence

cavan shooter

Wheres the sense, can you imagine taking a pop at a grey crow with a 220 swift....., I wonder how I'll stand when I go for a 204 Ruger (saving up:D ), that in writing is smaller than 220. Re-apply or line through.?

bunny shooter

cavan shooter wrote:

Wheres the sense, can you imagine taking a pop at a grey crow with a 220 swift....., I wonder how I'll stand when I go for a 204 Ruger (saving up:D ), that in writing is smaller than 220. Re-apply or line through.?

line through

Our man in Havana

Who is authourised to do the line thru? Does it have to go thru the super?

bunny shooter

Bond-007 wrote:

Who is authourised to do the line thru? Does it have to go thru the super?

Don't think so