Open Source V Proprietary

nellyshark

Just wondering what are people's views regarding Open Source V Proprietary software.

Me, I am all for Open Source but can understand the reservations regarding OS. To me there seems to be really good applications out there. The likes of Joomla and osCommerce can be very valuable to any business. Also the likes of OpenOffice V MsOffice can create savings for companies.

I have only briefly used Ubuntu and liked it, but are there any Open Source OS out there than can challenge Windows?

The whole Open Source area really interests me.

While I was in college (just finishhed 2007) everything was Proprietary. This is a real shame and disappointing. There are so many alternatives freely available.

Anyways, what do you think?

junglequestions

nellyshark wrote:

The likes of Joomla and osCommerce can be very valuable to any business.

Whilst Open Source can be great, Joomla and osCommerce really are crap. Which you'd realise if you had ever used them

nellyshark

Am I right in thinkiing what you are saying is that Joomla and osCommerce are crap and should not be used? Fair enough they mightnt be brilliant but to say they are crap is harsh. They can be valuable to small or startup businesses who don't have huge resources.

Which you'd realise if you had ever used them

I quite like Joomla, maybe not for a large business but for personal use it is fine.

croo

nellyshark wrote:

I have only briefly used Ubuntu and liked it, but are there any Open Source OS out there than can challenge Windows?

Do you mean Ubuntu is not Open Source? or that it cannot challenge Windows?

nellyshark

croo wrote:

Do you mean Ubuntu is not Open Source? or that it cannot challenge Windows?

What I mean is which OS will challenge Windows best, Ubuntu is one type, there seems to be so many variations, what I want to know which one would be the best for the likes of:

home
business
education
etc.

It is really sad that a lot of people believe that Windows and Microsoft is the be all and end all in computers.

Another small question. If you replcced all the software of a computer with OS versions i.e. Open Source OS, OpenOffice, Internet Browser, etc which would be better, the original or the OS version?

axer

junglequestions wrote:

Whilst Open Source can be great, Joomla and osCommerce really are crap. Which you'd realise if you had ever used them

A well thought out, highly intelligent point! :rolleyes:

I have used Joomla extensively for businesses and find it an excellent piece of software.

OP: The best chance Open source software has is via the schools and colleges. If young people are exposed to and get used to open source software then these potential future managers would consider it.

MS combat the chance for open source software by offering very enticing licence pricing for schools and colleges.

Take for example a primary school, the school can pay 5 euro (+ VAT) per computer per year and get XP Pro (or Vista Home Premium) and Office 2003 (or Office 2007). They can upgrade to the latest version whenever they want for free (however they must buy one copy of the CD/DVD). Why would I install open source software then when I can MS software for this price?

At those prices Open Source cannot beat MS software. Users then want what they are familiar with so Open Source loses out.

nellyshark

Good man axer, you are after saying what I wanted to say in a couple of lines. Excellant answer

I never realised schools got it for that price.

Fair enough that they use it then, but I would like to see them use alternatives aswell. Imagine half the classromm has Windows and half OS. At least then it exposes students to both to make up their own mind.

croo

Indeed the schools argument is very important and explains why MS will invest so much in ensuring they continue to use MS products. But outside of Office MS doesn't have a whole lot to schools. Most linux distros however offer a huge variety of programs that might be useful for learning ... some good some not so good ... the http://www.edubuntu.org/ distribution brings the best together I believe. Alas, many schools do not even know of its existence. And the fact the MS is responsible for such a large proportion of our GDP means government are not too interested in spreading the word!

But I remember the time before office when everyone used WordPerfect which I hated as it had a cryptic command sequences of keys to perform the most basic tasks. But even so people said it was “the” word processing application to know. Me I just carried a version of word on floppies around with me ... highly illegal I'm sure but back then I think MS was happy to have the word ... spread if you'll pardon the pun. Anyway, the point is WordPerfect was considered King ...but habits change!

The business world is split in two; the servers & desktops... I believe on the server MS must fight for every install it gets, but even so is very far from being the ubiquitous solution it is on the desktop.

MS has for many years now been buying, big time, into business software... with their purchases of Great Plains, Navision and a raft of other SMB solution providers. But here many businesses have been stung in recent years with the sale of these big named products... once sold there were no more upgrades, no new versions and the businesses were left with no options but to migrate ... a potentially costly affair. But I believe such events have caused many SMBs to pause for thought before deciding on their next application and many are choosing OS. Seeing their servers very stable & secure running the likes of Linux & Apache, using FireFox and seeing the many OS business solutions that are becoming available; based on open standards that result in no vendor lock in to services or support... I believe many will wonder why not use linux on the desktop? In big business the move to distributed systems has resulted in the rebirth of the mainframe (not that it ever went away in the first place, but its future looked a little wobbly there for a while) that allows a businesses to run thin, often web based, clients on small energy efficient window terminals... further reducing the importance of the desktop itself.

Besides the schools the other area that I think MS wins hands down on is games. Many people, especially at home still stick to windows so they can enjoy their favourite game.

The final reason, but one that is slowly becoming less of a factor is hardware drivers. For old or even recent hardware something like ubuntu is great... easier to install than windows in my book (but since most people get their machine with windows installed they wouldn't know this!). Buy anything “cutting edge” tough and its unlikely to work out of the box and it almost certainly doesn't come with a linux setup program on a CD - as will be the case with windows!

Myself I have a number of machines most with some variant of Linux and one dual boot notebook (windows & ubuntu) which I use to demo OS software to people so that it doesn't look too “foreign”.

I accept that MS is currently king on the desktop, i don't think it'll ever go away but I do think it will have to do more and more to try and keep that place but it will inevitably lose its “must have” status.

nellyshark

croo, that is one of the best posts I have read ,every point valid and exactly the type of discussion I was looking for.

democrates

Yes excellent post croo.

Third level education in particular has a lot to gain from having legally unencumbered access to source code. It's not just in computer science, but mathematics, physics and biotech - indeed if it weren't for Perl the human genome sequence would be patented now.

Orion

croo wrote: »

Indeed the schools argument is very important and explains why MS will invest so much in ensuring they continue to use MS products. But outside of Office MS doesn't have a whole lot to schools. Most linux distros however offer a huge variety of programs that might be useful for learning ... some good some not so good ... the http://www.edubuntu.org/ distribution brings the best together I believe. Alas, many schools do not even know of its existence. And the fact the MS is responsible for such a large proportion of our GDP means government are not too interested in spreading the word!

I agree completely. My twins are now 4 and are starting to want to play with my keyboard (no chance ). So the old 1Ghz Dell that I've kept in a press is going to be making an appearance shortly with edubuntu on it. My laptop and primary desktop are both Linux so they will grow up with the Open experience. (my fileserver is currently windows - it's my old main machine - and only still running that OS cos I'm too lazy to reconfigure my xBox for streaming )

I liken this to recycling. Our kids - even at 4 - know that paper, cans, cardboard etc go in the green bin. Bottles go in a box for the bottle bank. Vegetable peelings etc go in the compost bin. They are growing up with that and will carry it on into adult life. Same does for software. If they grow up with Linux then they won't have the same fear of it that adult MS drones do.

But I wouldn't be so sure about governments not spreading the word. Some countries are now insisting on OS alternatives to MS products in the civil services. And I was reading a few days ago about MS being reported to the competition authority in England for their school licensing plans. Not to mention that MS's 'open' document standard was rejected by the ISO - which is comprised of government reps. The Irish rep abstained iirc - which is as close to a vote against MS than we can expect.

oscarBravo

Macros42 wrote: »

Not to mention that MS's 'open' document standard was rejected by the ISO...

\o/ Go ISO!

croo

well done Marco42... a good long term strategy there

Macros42 wrote: »

But I wouldn't be so sure about governments not spreading the word. Some countries are now insisting on OS alternatives to MS products in the civil services.

Well I meant our (Irish) government specifically. But yes, I agree, many Governments are very supportive of Open Source.

Still we only just managed to avoid software patents in the EU. Just from memory, I think they failed at the last when the Danish government objected. Because (I read on the web so I have not idea if there is any truth in it at all) MS indirectly threaten them with talk of closing their Danish offices!??
The directive was I think introduced by the Irish government (again speculation was because of the strong position MS holds here), but it was support by many others ... including surprisingly Germany. I say surprisingly because I think the state of Bayern was one of the first to introduce the idea of using OS. Since then though the Dutch have moved to OS and some departments of the French governments. And I know of one OS project that the (or "a" at least) Spanish government supports.

Also, I am involved with an OS project and we have had many inquires from developing countries on how they might foster and promote the project internally in their country. So yes I think overall Governments are supportive.

I do remember a lot of talk a few years back about some UK councils moving to Linux & Open Office which never materialised and seemed to be more about getting a better discount from MS... hopefully that is not the incentive for all this interest from other governments.

Macros42 wrote: »

The Irish rep abstained iirc - which is as close to a vote against MS than we can expect.

I guess this was my point ... given the amount of money Ireland Corp. gets from MS Corp. we should not be surprised to see the government shy away from openly going against MS! I don't have a link in support right now but I read somewhere that Ireland earns €900m a year in taxes from MS while the rest of the EU earns just €90m! I think it is figures like this that are leading the German & French governments call for a common tax "base" in the EU... this would, I think, be the death knell for the Irish low tax strategy. Personally I think we'd do better to be innovative, efficient and competitive rather than try to undercut our EU neighbours on tax. The likes of Germany & France cannot really follow suit but many of the "new entrants" can and will. Anyway we are getting of the OS topic .. sorry

Interesting about the MS, schools & competition authority... i hadn't heard about that.