Best Central Midfielder In The World?

cson

ziggy67 wrote:

Nice list with just 6 out of 10 coming from the premiership :rolleyes:

Fair enough. I've admitted as much that I've made some significant omissions from the poll, unfortunately you can only have 10 options, and as the saying goes you can't please everyone.

I'm talking about a box to box midfielder, hence excluding Riquelme and Kaka etc and then perhaps the poll shouldn't have Lampard or Scholes in it. Honestly if I was to change the poll I'd only add 2 new names, De Rossi and Iniesta.

In favour of Cesc Fabregas I'd like to point out that it hasn't just been this season he's been playing consistently good. He's just upped his game thus far this season.

cson

LuckyLloyd wrote:

We'll see what Cesc and Arsenal have won at the end of the year.

Extremely petty.

Mr Alan

he has a point though. just cause he's a spurs fan doesn't mean its out of pettiness he is saying it.

MrJoeSoap

Well if its worth anything, I can't see Gattuso winning anything this year either (other than the Super Cup they already won obviously).

cson

millersangel wrote:

he has a point though. just cause he's a spurs fan doesn't mean its out of pettiness he is saying it.

That's a sweeping statement, not a point imo to just say "We'll see what Cesc and Arsenal win at the end of the season". There is no development, no reasoning given for the statement therefore it isn't a point imo. Most of the other posts have given solid reasoning for their choices. It's the least I would expect tbh.

PHB

Well like, considering that Arsenal did very well against the big four last season, I think they'll be ok. And ok, maybe Liverpool have played a big side, but they drew with them, so it's not like Arsenal have a lot to catch up on.

Nunu

I voted Essien, but only because I idolise the guy:o (and I'm a Utd fan!).
Have to admit Fabregas is almost untouchable at the moment....actually Iniesta would be on a par currently.

Hargreaves will be on that list next year(injury permitting:( )...I think he's better than Gattusso.

Jazzy

kinaldo wrote:

It's really insane the wealth of luxury players they have to choose from. And yet they continue to underachieve at international level.

shhh! u might completely destroy Eamonn Dunphy's arguements and ramblings as regards "hype" and such within the PL with statements like that.
Spain is deadly and england is $hite. thats the law

Mr Alan

I'm not saying Arsenal have a lot to catch up on, just that their form and fabregas's, will not remain at this level all season, this i can guaruntee you. he's scored more already than he did all last year and its only Oct

one swallow does not a summer make. . . . and all that

PHB

Why don't you think it will continue? Have their been signs of luck that I've been missing or what's the story?
Arsenal have won 5 games in a row, as have United. I doubt they'll continue perpetually, but they've shown that they are both starting to hit the ground. Arsenal still haven't reached top gear imo (I think more will come from Hleb and Rosicky, and Van Persie and Abebayour are only beginning to build a relationship), and United certainly haven't, yet they are still winning.

cson

Gattuso is currently second behind Essien. Personally I'd have Essien in before Gattuso any day. He never really got a good string of games at CM last year cos of Mourinho using him as a centre half and the like. Interesting to see how Essien fares with a more attack orientated approach that Ambramovich is looking for.

MrJoeSoap

PHB wrote:

Why don't you think it will continue? Have their been signs of luck that I've been missing or what's the story?
Arsenal have won 5 games in a row, as have United. I doubt they'll continue perpetually, but they've shown that they are both starting to hit the ground. Arsenal still haven't reached top gear imo (I think more will come from Hleb and Rosicky, and Van Persie and Abebayour are only beginning to build a relationship), and United certainly haven't, yet they are still winning.

9 in all competitions.

millersangels wrote:

I'm not saying Arsenal have a lot to catch up on, just that their form and fabregas's, will not remain at this level all season, this i can guaruntee you. he's scored more already than he did all last year and its only Oct

one swallow does not a summer make. . . . and all that

Fabregas' level of football hasn't dropped in about two years, he's Mr. Consistent. The only difference is that the team are now performing exceptionally and he is scoring and getting assists for fun. In Fantasy Football terms he is better now than he had been the last two seasons, but in real terms he's just the same.

Mr Alan

I cant remember him having a good game against another top4 side last year? or even in europe for that matter???

now i dont watch arsenal week in week out, so i could be wrong.

Xavi6

millersangel wrote:

he's scored more already than he did all last year and its only Oct

He's just added a new dimension to his game.

MrJoeSoap

Did extremely well to create Adebayors winning goal at Old Trafford, did you forget that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Lxr6_jQeo

"He's been a genius today, like a little magician"

cson

millersangel wrote:

now i dont watch arsenal week in week out, so i could be wrong.

Obviously you don't! Against the top 4 last year Arsenal beat Man Utd home and away, drew twice with Chelsea and whacked Liverpool 3-0 at home and then got whacked by Liverpool 4-1 away. Fabregas was central to most of those results.

Mitch Connor

cson wrote:

That's a sweeping statement, not a point imo to just say "We'll see what Cesc and Arsenal win at the end of the season". There is no development, no reasoning given for the statement therefore it isn't a point imo. Most of the other posts have given solid reasoning for their choices. It's the least I would expect tbh.

didn't you know - players ability can only be judged on trophies they have won.

Pepe LeFrits

millersangel wrote:

I cant remember him having a good game against another top4 side last year? or even in europe for that matter???

What about the games against Man United (at Old Trafford, especially) and the home win over Liverpool?

Fabregas has tended to save some of his best performances for the big occasions.

I agree with PHB. Man United and Arsenal obviously can't keep winning every game but they can both improve. van Persie hasn't been playing well yet, but is still managing a goal every other game which is encouraging. Rosicky and Hleb have been in and out of the side and haven't really gotten their rhythm going. Arsenal played better at times last season than they have so far this season, the difference is this season they have been more clinical, and more together.

I don't know if Fabregas is the best midfielder in the world; I don't watch enough of the competition to make that kind of claim. I don't really care to be honest; he is astonishingly good for Arsenal and that's enough for me. Though a special mention should go to Mathieu Flamini who, surprisingly, has been terrific this season and is keeping Gilberto out of the team. He has been an important part of Arsenal's early form.

Xavi6 wrote:

He's just added a new dimension to his game.

Just rediscovered it I think, he had no problems scoring when he was younger... I think the step up to senior football inhibited him a little in that regard.

cson

No, I wasn't aware of that. So Djimi Traore has a Champions League medal then....hmmmm....

MrJoeSoap

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Just rediscovered it I think, he had no problems scoring when he was younger...

He was some player back when he was in his prime.

Mr Alan

Ok, so i may have jumped the gun a bit with Fabregas not playing well against big teams!

BUT leave djimi out of this!

iregk

Personally at the moment I'd go for Inniesta. Can't believe he was left out of the list.

Fiberglass is pure brilliance, the next footballing genius. Enjoy watching him lads we are in the presence of Platini mark 2.

Over all though I've gone for Essien. Yes there was a bit of bias but honestly I'd rather have him in my team than anyone else had I to pick. The man fully deserves his name "The Train" as he is just collosal in the middle.

Smegball

No Michael Carrick :O Lol, have to agree with iregk there aswell, Iniesta is a quality player, personally I would love to see him or maybe even Elano replace Scholes within the next few years.

Raskolnikov

In terms of being a complete central midfielder, I don't think there is any better than Cesc. His vision and passing is simply incredible. He can get forward well and as we're now seeing, he's a huge threat when he does this. People also seem to forget that he's a tenacious little fecker to boot. He'll chase balls down and can tackle fairly mean as well, watch him closely when Arsenal are under pressure and don't have the ball!

In an age when a lot of foreigners come to England and start blubbering about the English game being too physical and fast-paced, it's refreshing to see a player can not only adapt so well, but thrive in the enviroment.

Honourable mentions go to De Rossi and Xavi. Iniesta is a decent player, but he's nowhere near as influential as Xavi.

LuckyLloyd

cson wrote:

That's a sweeping statement, not a point imo to just say "We'll see what Cesc and Arsenal win at the end of the season". There is no development, no reasoning given for the statement therefore it isn't a point imo. Most of the other posts have given solid reasoning for their choices. It's the least I would expect tbh.

Firstly, I'm a Liverpool fan.

Secondly, why should I need to elaborate on a very obvious point? Coming up with "best of" lists at this early and relatively unimportant part of the season seems nonsensical to me. Players do not exist in a vacumn independant of their results and achievments. Cesc is playing well - but will remain unproven until he racks up medals and gives big performances in big games that lead to, you know, winning stuff. Therefore, you should wait until the end of the season until you can properly assess his place within the world game. Much as Arsenal could still have a very poor season despite the good football they are playing AT PRESENT.

Ultimately, I take Gatusso as the best central midfielder playing in Europe at the moment. Because he has dominated tough, high pressure fixtures consistently over the past couple of seasons. And he has been an integral part of teams that have won at the very highest levels.

Does that satisfy your lofty expectations?

eirebhoy

It shows how low in importance technical ability is when Gattuso can be one of the best. Technically crap but superb work rate, great off the ball and a fantastic football brain. He was anonymous tonight though.

cson

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Firstly, I'm a Liverpool fan.

What has that got to do with anything?

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Secondly, why should I need to elaborate on a very obvious point? Coming up with "best of" lists at this early and relatively unimportant part of the season seems nonsensical to me. Players do not exist in a vacumn independant of their results and achievments. Cesc is playing well - but will remain unproven until he racks up medals and gives big performances in big games that lead to, you know, winning stuff. Therefore, you should wait until the end of the season until you can properly assess his place within the world game. Much as Arsenal could still have a very poor season despite the good football they are playing AT PRESENT.

If you had taken the time to read my original post you would indeed have seen that this thread was inspired by a comment made by Ronnie Whelan during last nights Champions League highlights. It's not a best of "list" simply a poll to find out who boards users think is the best out and out central midfielder at this time in the world today. Guess who has almost half of the vote? :cool:

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Ultimately, I take Gatusso as the best central midfielder playing in Europe at the moment. Because he has dominated tough, high pressure fixtures consistently over the past couple of seasons. And he has been an integral part of teams that have won at the very highest levels.

Does that satisfy your lofty expectations?

Fair point. And I don't have lofty expectations but I do expect some semblence of reason behind any sweeping statements someone makes.

LuckyLloyd

cson wrote:

What has that got to do with anything?

Millersangel posted that I was a spurs fan

cson wrote:

If you had taken the time to read my original post you would indeed have seen that this thread was inspired by a comment made by Ronnie Whelan during last nights Champions League highlights. It's not a best of "list" simply a poll to find out who boards users think is the best out and out central midfielder at this time in the world today. Guess who has almost half of the vote? :cool:

Heh.

cson wrote:

Fair point. And I don't have lofty expectations but I do expect some semblence of reason behind any sweeping statements someone makes.

Well, my posts are generally too long!! It's a football forum though. Such things wouldn't exist if we couldn't make sweeping statements!!

tdv

I'd probally go for Essien

.

Mr Alan

Apologies for the false assumption

LuckyLloyd

millersangel wrote:

Apologies for the false assumption

Ah, no problem sir.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

Last season they were hyping up fabregas and I didn't think it was justified. However with what I've seen of him this season I think a Wayne's World "We're Not Worthy" is in order. He has been unbelievable, not only adding goals to his game, his passing is absolutely perfect. He can execute any pass that pops into his head effortlessly, making him pretty unstoppable. And he always seems to have all the time and space in the world which is the sign of a very intelligent player.

Now i haven't read the whole thread but i just have to point out that in my opinion Fabregas was playing just as well for long periods of last season, he just wasn't scoring. Now that he has started scoring(and can't stop seemingly, well except last nights shocker of a miss!) people have started to take much more notice of him. I mean last year he just kept hitting the post and being very unlucky for the most part with his chances, although in fairness i suppose this year he has stepped up his shooting and generally being able to take his chances. Also last year, he was doing exactly as you say, making wonderful passes and assisting or playing a major part in almost all goals scored by arsenal.
Then again who's complaining! I voted for him anyway!:D

kinaldo

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Players do not exist in a vacumn independant of their results and achievments. Cesc is playing well - but will remain unproven until he racks up medals and gives big performances in big games that lead to, you know, winning stuff. Therefore, you should wait until the end of the season until you can properly assess his place within the world game.

Hmmm...

So by your standards, even if Fabregas puts in a man of the match performance in every game for the rest of the season, he'll remain unproven unless Arsenal actually win something worthwhile.

Seems a bit harsh, no? Also a damning indictment of one Matt Le Tissier (queue MrJoeSoap to prove the point...)

After all, it's pretty obvious to everyone that Fabregas is genuine world class. Not will be, IS - bona fide. He was instrumental in helping Arsenal to the CL final two seasons ago when he was only 18. Man of the match at Highbury in the quarter final against the mighty Juventus and the great Patrick Vieira, if I recall.

TwistsAndTurns

No Lionel Mess :eek: He does go in and out of midfield.

LuckyLloyd

kinaldo wrote:

Hmmm...

So by your standards, even if Fabregas puts in a man of the match performance in every game for the rest of the season, he'll remain unproven unless Arsenal actually win something worthwhile.

Seems a bit harsh, no? Also a damning indictment of one Matt Le Tissier (queue MrJoeSoap to prove the point...)

After all, it's pretty obvious to everyone that Fabregas is genuine world class. Not will be, IS - bona fide. He was instrumental in helping Arsenal to the CL final two seasons ago when he was only 18. Man of the match at Highbury in the quarter final against the mighty Juventus and the great Patrick Vieira, if I recall.

Ok, "unproven" may be the wrong word. But "best in the world"? I think that what athletes ultimately win has to be considered when assessing how good they are; how good they were - whether they will be remembered long term.

The end object of football is to win trophies. There is a direct relationship between performance and result over the long term. If Fabregas gives man of the match performances for every game from now until the end of the season then it would be logical to assume that Arsenal should win a lot between now and the end of the season - given that the "man of the match" is generally picked from the winning team.

Le Tessier was wonderful on his day. I loved watching him when he was interested. But you could never, ever have claimed that he was the "best in the world" at his position. Throughout his entire career, he demonstrated an attitude and application to the game which could only have come from a disinterested underachiever. Technically brilliant? Absolutely. Would have done wonders at a top club? Probably. A "great" player in the final analysis? No, not at all. At least IMO.

I'm not debating that Fabregas is world class. Or that he could be the next in line on the world stage to eclipse technically peerless midfielders like Platini and Zidane.

But the question is "Best central midfielder in the world"? And IMO, that is kind of like saying: "pick one player in the world to play for your team at central midfield away from home in a champions league semi final?". I take Gatusso.

Maybe my opinion will change over the next year or two of course - but ask yourself at what point during Roy Keane's career that it became inarguable that he was the best central midfielder in the world - and it might help you understand my viewpoint.

kinaldo

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Ok, "unproven" may be the wrong word. But "best in the world"? I think that what athletes ultimately win has to be considered when assessing how good they are; how good they were - whether they will be remembered long term.

The end object of football is to win trophies. There is a direct relationship between performance and result over the long term. If Fabregas gives man of the match performances for every game from now until the end of the season then it would be logical to assume that Arsenal should win a lot between now and the end of the season - given that the "man of the match" is generally picked from the winning team.

Le Tessier was wonderful on his day. I loved watching him when he was interested. But you could never, ever have claimed that he was the "best in the world" at his position. Throughout his entire career, he demonstrated an attitude and application to the game which could only have come from a disinterested underachiever. Technically brilliant? Absolutely. Would have done wonders at a top club? Probably. A "great" player in the final analysis? No, not at all. At least IMO.

I'm not debating that Fabregas is world class. Or that he could be the next in line on the world stage to eclipse technically peerless midfielders like Platini and Zidane.

But the question is "Best central midfielder in the world"? And IMO, that is kind of like saying: "pick one player in the world to play for your team at central midfield away from home in a champions league semi final?". I take Gatusso.

Maybe my opinion will change over the next year or two of course - but ask yourself at what point during Roy Keane's career that it became inarguable that he was the best central midfielder in the world - and it might help you understand my viewpoint.

Ok, while I generally agree with your performance leading to results and greatness point, and that of Le Tiss, I have to pick a bone with your argument that Roy Keane was inarguably the best midfielder in the world. Rose tinted Irish glasses I think.

I don't think he was ever considered such outside Manchester and Ireland. I seriously doubt he was rated as the best in the world by the majority of people in Spain and Italy for example.

Roy Keane was a GREAT midfielder no doubt, but he was technically limited compared to say Redondo or Patrick Vieira, who could generally match him for leadership and workrate but also offered something more in the way of class. Redondo has two CL medals to Keane's one and was the linchpin of Real Madrid's midfield for almost a decade that won everything, so I don't think you can convincingly argue that Keane was ever better than him, especially after the masterclass that Redondo put in at Old Trafford in the 99/00 quarter final.

You say if you could pick one midfielder to have in your team at the moment it would be Gatusso. I may be wrong but I doubt any football manager given the choice would pick Gatusso over Fabregas. Workhorses like Gatusso are much easier to come by than a diamond in the rough like Cesc Fabregas. Like what Cantona once said of Deschamps, Gatusso is just a watter carrier, albeit a more snarling one.

eirebhoy

kinaldo wrote:

Roy Keane was a GREAT midfielder no doubt, but he was technically limited compared to say Redondo or Patrick Vieira, who could generally match him for leadership and workrate

No chance. Vieira isn't even in Keane's league when it comes to leadership and workrate. Keane had the workrate of Gattuso, the leadership of eh, the very best, the football brain of the very best and decent technical ability. If he had the world class technically ability he'd have been the best central midfielder ever.

Helix

gavin mccann in his prime was better than the lot

LuckyLloyd

kinaldo wrote:

Ok, while I generally agree with your performance leading to results and greatness point, and that of Le Tiss, I have to pick a bone with your argument that Roy Keane was inarguably the best midfielder in the world. Rose tinted Irish glasses I think.

I don't think he was ever considered such outside Manchester and Ireland. I seriously doubt he was rated as the best in the world by the majority of people in Spain and Italy for example.

Roy Keane was a GREAT midfielder no doubt, but he was technically limited compared to say Redondo or Patrick Vieira, who could generally match him for leadership and workrate but also offered something more in the way of class. Redondo has two CL medals to Keane's one and was the linchpin of Real Madrid's midfield for almost a decade that won everything, so I don't think you can convincingly argue that Keane was ever better than him, especially after the masterclass that Redondo put in at Old Trafford in the 99/00 quarter final.

You say if you could pick one midfielder to have in your team at the moment it would be Gatusso. I may be wrong but I doubt any football manager given the choice would pick Gatusso over Fabregas. Workhorses like Gatusso are much easier to come by than a diamond in the rough like Cesc Fabregas. Like what Cantona once said of Deschamps, Gatusso is just a watter carrier, albeit a more snarling one.

We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid:

- Labelling Gatusso as nothing more than a "workhorse" or "water carrier" is lol;
- Keane >>>>>>> Vieira;
- Redondo got the best of it that game alright. But I contend that Keane did it much more often over the course of his career;
- I'm sure Deschamps looks at his World and European cup winners medals and smiles when he is reminded of that comment from probably the most overrated footballer of the modern era;


But, as I say - these are largely matters of opinion. And, you are perfectly entitled to yours.

kinaldo

LuckyLloyd wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid:

- Labelling Gatusso as nothing more than a "workhorse" or "water carrier" is lol;
- Keane >>>>>>> Vieira;
- Redondo got the best of it that game alright. But I contend that Keane did it much more often over the course of his career;
- I'm sure Deschamps looks at his World and European cup winners medals and smiles when he is reminded of that comment from probably the most overrated footballer of the modern era;


But, as I say - these are largely matters of opinion. And, you are perfectly entitled to yours.

I'll agree to disagree too...

But I'll just add that in the years Patrick Vieira played Premiership football he was at least Keane's equal, and at his very best hit greater heights (imo).

Also, I've been following pretty much Real Madrid's every move since Sky Sports started showing Spanish football back in 1996. Unfortunately their league history before that time is mostly confined to the archives for the rest of us who weren't there. At that time I only remembered him being Argentina's best player in the 1994 World Cup, but he was as consistently good as his reputation in Spain would lead you to believe from what I saw. Unsurprisingly, there were riots in Madrid the day he was was allowed to leave for Milan.

I will agree that Cantona is probably the most overrated player of the modern era, but he had a point.

Edit to note that Redondo has actually won 3 CL medals, not just 2 as I had previously thought (the 3rd was with Milan in 2003).

iregk

Well he has a 3rd for milan as the champions league is not like the prem. As in you have to play x amount of games to qualify for a medal. If your registered in the squad you get a medal. simple as.

That year Redondo played I think 20mins of CL action before doing his knee again and didn't play for the rest of his career and retired the following season. Come to think of it I think he may have been on the bench for the final.

As a mark of the mans class. While out injured for the long term he refused to accept any wages from Milan, saying it was unfair to accept payment for no work.

cson

For the guy that mentioned Messi, this is a poll for central midfielders.

So by your rationale LuckyLloyd Djimi Traore could be considered a 'great' player because of his 2005 champions laegue medal?:eek:

CountryWise

This Fabregas nonsense is spiralling out of control it really is, a good player in great form at the moment but its just "at the moment".
Every player goes throught this but surely they cant get the title of world best central midfielder after a string of 6 - 8 games

Juan Pablo

On current form (i.e. the last couple of games!) Didi Hamann Has been a revalation this season.

But over the last 18 months or so Fabregas. Incredible that he is only 20. Noteable mention to Mikel Arteta, have been very impressed since he joined Everton. I'd have him in that list ahead of Diarra, Lampard and, dare I say it, Gerrard any day of the week.

As for the Redondo vs Keane debate it is difficult to directly compare. Keane blood and thunder approach was suited for the EPL and he was the best at it, however the astounding skill and grace of Redondo's game made him the best in La Liga at the time. Redondo may not have had any impact in England for example, as the pace of the game may not have suited his style. I doubt it, but you get my point. Imho "The Prince" was the better player of the two based on technique and intelligence on the park, however using a different set of criteria you could argue Keane was the better I suppose.

eirebhoy

CountryWise wrote:

This Fabregas nonsense is spiralling out of control it really is, a good player in great form at the moment but its just "at the moment".
Every player goes throught this but surely they cant get the title of world best central midfielder after a string of 6 - 8 games

I put a "world XI" together for the craic last April and Fabregas was in mine so I'm certainly not just going on current form.

herbieflowers

Fabregas has it all to prove imo, much like Ronaldo, ie playing well against the best players in the world, not just merely doing it against weaker opposition

cson

CountryWise wrote:

This Fabregas nonsense is spiralling out of control it really is, a good player in great form at the moment but its just "at the moment".
Every player goes throught this but surely they cant get the title of world best central midfielder after a string of 6 - 8 games

Fabregas has been doing it for the guts of 2 years now. The only difference this season is he has added some goals to his his game. Who would you suggest is playing better and has played better over the past year?

As for the notion of not 'doing it' in big games, Fabregas has turned in man of the match performances against Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus amongst others.

jank

IMO Cesc will become one of the greatest midfielders of this generation, maybe even all time.

Sure his form is good now, but he was always a good player but his goals are are after putting him in the spotlight now. Alot of his work aswell goes unnoticed.

Smegball

Have to ask why Diarra's on this list? He's a very one dimensional player and doesn't deserve to be mentioned with the rest of the players. I would rate players like Arteta and Elano way ahead of him.

Xavi6

Smegball wrote:

Have to ask why Diarra's on this list? He's a very one dimensional player and doesn't deserve to be mentioned with the rest of the players. I would rate players like Arteta and Elano way ahead of him.

To be fair Elano would be in the 'attacking midfielder' category along with Kaka, Ronaldinho etc so I can see why he's not on the list.

Surprised so many people have voted for Gattuso. If ever there was a one dimensional midfielder it's him. Don't get me wrong, he's great at putting in a tackle but passing or shooting? I'd rate Pirlo higher in the Milan team.