Speeding in the hard shoulder.

Archeron

Kind of a follow on from the thread the other day about crashing into someone in a bus lane when changing lanes.
What is the situation if you are on a motorway in heavy traffic, and at the correct point, you pull into the off ramp to leave the motorway, but get hit by somebody illegally driving in the hard shoulder?

I ask this because the traffic on the M4 was really heavy this morning, and I waited til I got to my offramp to leave the motorway. Most other people however, didnt wait and were using the hardshoulder from about a kilometer back, and some of them were going at ridiculous speeds (considering it was hard shoulder beside a stopped motorway). I checked to see it was safe, and as I was looking, a car absolutely ripped past. Had I not checked, there could have been a nasty smash.
Who would be in the wrong? Both parties?

Del2005

I'd say it would be both with the hard shoulder driver getting 80%+ of the blame. They shouldn't be there but you still have to drive with due care and attention, which you did. Use your mirrors and look over your shoulder to make the way is safe.

cyclopath2001

Del2005 wrote:

I'd say it would be both with the hard shoulder driver getting 80%+ of the blame. They shouldn't be there but you still have to drive with due care and attention, which you did. Use your mirrors and look over your shoulder to make the way is safe.

NB It's totally illegal to drive along the hard shoulder.

golden

The person on the hard shoulder for two reasons:

a. it is illegal to drive on the hard shoulder on the motorway.
b. The person would be coming from behind and crashing into the car that is in front.

Del2005

Just because it's illegal doesn't absolve you of your responsiblity to drive with due care. I know a person who got crashed into by someone making an illegal right turn and didn't get a penny.

wil

As Golden says above for both reasons, plus they would (should) be prosecuted for dangerous driving as well as driving without due care, driving on hard shoulder, overtaking on inside.
Del2005 Not quite sure how your first correct sentence links to your example.
I am sure most people would be inclined to not have someone crash in to them no matter how wrong that other person may be. Being proven right is of no consolation if you are dead.
Getting crashed in to by someone is different to not driving with due care.
If they were driving at such speed, chances are you might not even have enough time to see them in your mirror to avoid a collision as you indicated in time and began bearing left.
If the idiot saw your indicator and continued speeding down the hard shoulder, then he had no absolution from total responsibilty, not unless he had a siren and blue flashers.
What is more likely in your example is they had a crap solicitor who failed to fight the case properly. My dad had a similar case, the other driver was totally in the wrong but fought the case. My dads solicitor to my dads amazement said SFA in the court and he was found liable for the accident and all costs. Not one to take things lying down, he sacked the crap solicitor, appealed, fought the case himself and won, all costs, now considerably more coming from the prat who caused it in the first place. So 2 wrong prats dont make an illegal right.

Del2005

What I'm trying to say is it's still your responsibility to make sure that you can pull in safely. If someone pulls out in front of my when I'm on a main road they have done an illegal move. I won't drive into them because I'm right I'll slam on the brakes and try and avoid them. You are supposed to make sure the lane you are pulling into is safe and TBH everyone in the country knows that people drive in the hard shoulder on motorways when they are busy. Why else would they introduce a specific law for it?

May have been a sh1te solicitor on my example but all I'm trying saying is that it's never cut and dry.

Wishbone Ash

Re: Thread Title - the issue of 'speeding' is irrelevant as driving at any speed in the HS of a Motorway is illegal in the first place.

"Overtaking in the hard shoulder" would be a better title IMO.

cyclopath2001

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Re: Thread Title - the issue of 'speeding' is irrelevant as driving at any speed in the HS of a Motorway is illegal in the first place.

There's a separate law for it, but driving on a non-motorway hard shoulder is also illegal. It may be difficult to resist the temptation to follow the herd, but being a good driver sometimes calls for discipline and not breaking the law when under peer pressure.

Capt'n Midnight

you are supposed to yield to traffic already in the lane you are entering.
so I suppose you have to yield to people illegally (€60) in a bus lane

is a hard shoulder a lane though ?

jrar

In this country, by not making stopping on a motorway an illegal act, we allow the h/s to be seen as part of the roadway, which then fosters and even encourages the sort of behaviour of complete muppets with the "the 2 lanes are blocked, and shure I'm leaving the motorway at the next junction only 2 miles away, so I'll use the h/s seeing as it's part of the road - hope there's no-one parked in it" type of attitude !!

We need the French system whereby at regular intervals, there are signs reminding drivers that the h/s is not for stopping in and must be kept clear at all times to allow emergency vehicle unhindered access to all parts of the motorway.

Capt'n Midnight

jrar wrote:

In this country, by not making stopping on a motorway an illegal act,

http://www.drivinginfo.ie/list-penalty-points-ireland.php

Driving on the hard shoulder on a motorway

1 point = Penalty Points on Payment
3 points = Penalty Points on Conviction
€80 / €120 depending on when you pay