The Division in European Football.

Raskolnikov

Even looking at the standings of the Champions League at this stage, it seems pretty clear that Spain/England/Italy have a stranglehold on the competition.

Out of the four Spanish teams, all look easily strong enough to progress form the group stages. Even the weakest Spanish team, Valencia, look to be well on their way.

Out of the four English teams, again, all look like safe bets to progress. True, 'Pool slipped up, but I expect 3 points from Besiktas to kick start the campaign for them.

Out of the four Italian teams, the only doubts I would have, would be Lazio who face a test from Ólympiakos to bypass the group stages.

Even now, I can see at very least 11 Spa/Eng/Ita going into the last 16. For a competition that boasts teams from over 40 European countries, I think it's a damning endictment of bias that allows 3 nations to take the vast majority of places in a supposedly European competition.

German domestic football seems to have sunk into the doldrums with no-one bar Bayern, who seem to be able to make any sort of impact. The French league (and particularly) Lyon loses their best players every season, you simply cannot sustain a good level of European football with this happening. Even historically strong teams from Portugal (Porto and Benfica) and Netherland (PSV and Ajax) seem to be getting weaker and weaker by the year.

Michel Platini has made noises about pegging back the number of places that nations to prevent 4th place teams qualifying for the Champions League. To be honest, I think steps like these are absolutely vital to protect teams in the rest of Europe and to enable them to compete with the bigger leagues.

Anyone have any comments or thoughts?

leninbenjamin

its unfortunate, but it's just a fact of life really. the major leagues have just too much power. UEFA wouldn't even be able to divvy the money out if they tried.

i've been wondering recently could UEFA impose some sort of taxation system, a progressive one say where the larger the club's turnover the more they pay, and then this pot is used to fund grassroots level around the continent. It would need some fairly strict measures like the above to ever even out the leagues but even if the idea were good enough it'd never happen though, i'm sure the clubs could go to the EU over restraint of trade if UEFA ever tried to anything that might actually have the potential to break up the oligopoly the big leagues have.

Raskolnikov

The problem is that sucess feeds back onto itself. As the top European leagues continue to dominate, the money (the determining factor in football these days), the players and the fans interest flocks to them.

ziggy

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Eirebear

ziggy67 wrote:

Its seeded to help make sure the teams from the big leagues get through.

Let G14 feck off and have their European League and give us back the European Cup in Champions only, knock-out glory.

Well said that man....G14 are ruining football.

Guy:Incognito

Eirebear wrote:

Well said that man....G14 are ruining football.

Are you not a Rangers fan? You lot wouldnt be in it if it was Champions only.
Fact is its a better competition now than it was before. If it was Champions only, it would pretty much be between Utd and Real to win it this year.

LuckyLloyd

lol. ANOTHER one of these threads.

Eirebear

Stekelly wrote:

Are you not a Rangers fan? You lot wouldnt be in it if it was Champions only.
Fact is its a better competition now than it was before. If it was Champions only, it would pretty much be between Utd and Real to win it this year.

Dude...i didnt say we would be in it, my problem isnt with the stranglehold that G14 have hads on football over the last decade....Uefa are scared of them and thats no good for football.

As for Champions only....i dont mind 2 or three or maybe even 4 teams going into it....but EVERY champion should be in automatically.
The fact that Celtic had to qualify this year while the 2nd and 3rd placed teams walked right into the groups is beyond comprehension for me.
it devalues domestic football on all levels.

Guy:Incognito

Eirebear wrote:

Dude...i didnt say we would be in it, my problem isnt with the stranglehold that G14 have hads on football over the last decade....Uefa are scared of them and thats no good for football.

As for Champions only....i dont mind 2 or three or maybe even 4 teams going into it....but EVERY champion should be in automatically.
The fact that Celtic had to qualify this year while the 2nd and 3rd placed teams walked right into the groups is beyond comprehension for me.
it devalues domestic football on all levels.

Seriously? All the champs? Shels? The champs of Luxemburg, Austria, N.Ireland? That would make for a terrible group where the big clubs absolutely hammer teams. Plus all the big clubs seasons will be July -May. What of WC and EC years? Half the international teams players will be playing CL qualifiers.

Eirebear

Stekelly wrote:

Seriously? All the champs? Shels? The champs of Luxemburg, Austria, N.Ireland? That would make for a terrible group where the big clubs absolutely hammer teams. Plus all the big clubs seasons will be July -May. What of WC and EC years? Half the international teams players will be playing CL qualifiers.

They done so in the knockout years didnt they?
Do you really think its fair that a team who has won their own national league has to play three qualifying round while the likes of Liverpool...who lets face it have done nothing on the domestic scene for years walk in ahead of them?
As i said, if the champions qualify automatically, before anyone else, while the 2nd 3rd and 4th place teams need to qualify then it will only benefit the game as a whole.
Hey Liverpool might have won the league by now

Mr Alan

If you want the CL to be a proper reflection of the best team in Europe, it should be kept as it is now.

If you want to see teams getting hockied 8-0 . . . and only maybe 3 teams having a chance of winning each year, it should go back to the way it was.

Pepe LeFrits

Don't think reducing the number of teams from the big leagues would make any difference. The premiership makes so much money nowadays that PL clubs will always operate on a different level to teams from the smaller leagues, CL revenue or not.

Eirebear

millersangel wrote:

If you want the CL to be a proper reflection of the best team in Europe, it should be kept as it is now.

If you want to see teams getting hockied 8-0 . . . and only maybe 3 teams having a chance of winning each year, it should go back to the way it was.

But what about the domestic game? This is my point.
Liverpool havnt given a monkeys for the premiership over the last number of seasons, its been fairly obvious, yet can turn it on in the CL with a final and a Win.
for me its creating a complete disregard for domestic football, and the grass roots of all countries games will suffer, and is suffering for it.

Mr Alan

i'm not sure if thats true, i think Liverpool have always 'given a moneys' about the league, its just that,genuinely,they were just not good enough to compete in the league. now they are. and for example, crouch arguably liverpools 4th choice striker, started in the CL tonight.

its a hard call to make and its too late and i'm too pissed off after tonights football to go into it now, but although the domestic game in poorer footballing nations suffers as a result due to them not being involved in the CL where all the money is, if they were involved in it, the money would not be there anymore. . . . who would wanna watch some of the games that would occur under the old format? not me anyway.

signing off now

ziggy

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Dont be at yourself

The final was contested a few years back by Porto and Monaco. PSV and Lyon frequently make the latter stages. Last night a team from Glasgow beat the champions. A French team beat the runners up.

If you ask me, the rest of Europe is catching up with Italy/Spain/England. The French league is getting stronger and stronger, the German league has strength from top to bottom, the Dutch league is pumping out world-class players as always, and Eastern European teams like Shaktar are closing the gap too.

Mr Alan

ziggy67 wrote:

Why not just have a playoff between the top English, Italian and Spanish teams for the European Cup?

It would cut out all the meaningless games involving 'mickey-mouse' teams and the top teams can keep all the money to themselves.

Only a small step from the way things are now.

Your point might have some validity, except 2 of the last 3 winners weren't league champions?! Any of the entrants from England,Italy,Spain can with along with your dark horse teams, Porto, Bremen, Bayern etc can potentially win.

Best competition around imo.

ziggy

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loyatemu

Liverpools glorious run in 1981:

R1 Liverpool 11 - 2 OPS
R2 Liverpool 5 - 0 Aberdeen
QF Liverpool 6 - 1 CSKA Sofia
SF Liverpool 1 - 1 Bayern Munich
F Liverpool 1 - 0 Real Madrid

So they only played 9 matches, of which only 3 were really meaningful.

The current format has its flaws (4 teams from one country is too many) but the old format was pants. The old European Cup was nowhere near as big a competition and the early rounds were frequently played out in front of half-empty stadiums.

Royale with Cheese

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

The final was contested a few years back by Porto and Monaco. PSV and Lyon frequently make the latter stages. Last night a team from Glasgow beat the champions. A French team beat the runners up.

If you ask me, the rest of Europe is catching up with Italy/Spain/England. The French league is getting stronger and stronger, the German league has strength from top to bottom, the Dutch league is pumping out world-class players as always, and Eastern European teams like Shaktar are closing the gap too.

I'd agree with most of that apart from the German league comment. It seems to be getting weaker and weaker every year. Was only 10 years ago that Dortmund and Bayern were winning the competition.