Irish troops going to Chad

lostexpectation

So what d'ya reckon liberal imperlism or no?

The estimated 3,000 mostly French troops are expected to protect, with U.N. support, hundreds of thousands of Sudanese, Chadians and Central Africans seeking refuge in humanitarian camps in Chad for one year under rules of engagement allowing for the use of military force to improve security, deliver humanitarian aid, and protect civilians be they internally displaced citizens or Sudanese refugees.

Ahern in new york at the mo

During his three-day US visit, Mr Ahern will meet Sudanese Foreign Minister Lam Akol in New York to inform him about the decision to deploy up to 350 Irish peacekeeping troops to protect Darfur refugees in adjoining Chad.

Irish Defense Minister Willie O'Dea said his Cabinet has approved the appointment of Maj. Gen. Pat Nash, deputy chief of staff of the Irish army, to command the mission.

O'Dea said Ireland was also committing a 300-member unit. Irish Defense Forces Commandant Gavin Young said two Irish officers would be part of a small European advance mission leaving Oct. 11 for Paris, eastern Chad and Central African Republic.

Sweden, Poland and Belgium are offering between 100 to 200 troops each, one of the French officials said. Other contributing nations were not identified but could also supply troops, air power or other support.

The U.N. resolution also calls for a maximum of 300 U.N. international police and 50 military liaison officers to deploy to Chad and Central African Republic, as well as "an appropriate number of civilian personnel."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOBzFOlOUlXedBRQYBDpJk2gdmrQD8S1RHNO1

bit of bad news before they go, a rebel group from the peoples they are trying to protect attacks an AU base

"Ten soldiers were killed, eight [were] wounded, of whom six have been evacuated to Khartoum, and 40 are still missing," African Union Mission in Sudan (AMIS) spokesman Noureddine Mezni told AFP of the attack on Saturday night on Haskanita base in southern Darfur.

The AU on Sunday described a "sustained attack by a large and organised group of heavily armed men" who broke into the camp with 30 vehicles, forcing AU troops to fight "a defensive battle."
http://platform.blogs.com/passionofthepresent/2007/09/10-african-peac.html

The AU said that seven of the dead were Nigerian. The other dead troops were from Mali, Botswana and Senegal. The AU said eight people were seriously wounded and the death toll might rise.

Mezni told AFP that three peacekeepers were still missing.

Most of the 57 who were initially reported missing in the raid gradually made their way back to an AMIS camp in North Kordofan close the scene of the attack, apparently unharmed.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j26yJKShDFo6Xt96ZFGLDFoXRgrg pics

the attackers were 1,000 rebels from the Sudan Liberation Army.

he's right to be nervous

Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is to seek assurances at the UN HQ in New York that 350 Irish peacekeeping troops being deployed to Chad will be safe.
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/2-0&fp=470485fd8cb2f689&ei=qy8ER-PoCJC8oAPEw5n0AQ&url=http%3A//ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jDRNv8upFFzoDOZ1MrpaKIpiTeKw&cid=0

Mr Ahern will raise the issue with the foreign minister of Sudan, Lam Akol and will also voice concerns about risks to Irish aid workers in the region.
The Chadian president is from the same ethnic group as some of the Darfur rebels, and each country has accused the other of supporting rebel groups on the other's soil.
http://platform.blogs.com/passionofthepresent/2007/10/chad-arab-rebel.html


John 'invade, invade!' O'Shea hasn't said anything recently

"This initiative is not dealing with the core problem. Certainly, the flood of refugees into Chad from Darfur is a humanitarian tragedy, but it is not the critical issue of the Darfur conflict," said John O'Shea, head of the group.

"It is in Darfur itself where people are suffering in huge numbers. Why hasn't the EU got the courage to send troops there?"
http://platform.blogs.com/passionofthepresent/2007/07/eu-to-start-pla.html

he doesn't understand that you have to get sudan cooperation no matter how bad they are

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on Tuesday that time was critical and the Sudanese government's co-operation "essential"
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/9-0&fp=470410f2d0126b24&ei=My8ER9q7J4amoAPKncn2AQ&url=http%3A//english.alarabonline.org/display.asp%3Ffname%3D2007%255C09%255C09-04%255Czalsoz%255C921.htm%26dismode%3Dx%26ts%3D04/09/2007%252010%3A01%3A01%2520%25C3%2595&cid=0
U.N. peacekeeping chief Jean-Marie Guehenno urged the EU last week to deploy highly mobile troops supported by helicopters, [in order] to help protect a zone 900 km (560 miles) long by 200-400 km (125-250 miles) wide, including a small part of the Central African Republic.

France, a former colonial power in Chad, is expected to provide the bulk of the EU troops. Spain is also considering a contribution, an EU official said.

Barka says if the EU troops do their job, then the rebels support their participation, since their presence will also protect the safety of rebels in eastern Chad.

The problem, he says, is if France also militarily supports Chad President Idriss Deby. http://www.nowpublic.com/politics/chad-rebels-await-peacekeepers

France already has troops in the region supporting Chad's government, which is facing its own rebellion, leading some aid workers to question whether the force will be seen as neutral.

French efforts to ensure the troops come from all over Europe, with a non-French commander, are aimed at dispelling notions that the operation is really aimed at shoring up France's interests in Africa, where it still wields considerable influence as a former colonial power.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOBzFOlOUlXedBRQYBDpJk2gdmrQD8S1RHNO1


the Security Council must step in to assist Somalia and prepare for the possible deployment of a UN force to replace African troops by next February.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/09/mil-070925-voa11.htm

purple'n'gold

“Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is to seek assurances at the UN HQ in New York that 350 Irish peacekeeping troops being deployed to Chad will be safe.”

Excuse me? Soldiers are being deployed to a war zone and he wants assurances that they will be safe? Is he for real? That’s like taking your child to a Rangers v Celtic match and looking for assurances that he will hear no bad language. No wonder people laugh at the Irish. “Oh yes we do have soldiers, but they can’t go into action unless we get assurances that they will be safe”.

Manic Moran

Interesting, if accurate, analogy.

NTM

slapper2

i'm sicko of the way the army is mammyed around no wonder they are the butt of the jokes

lostexpectation

purplengold wrote:

“Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is to seek assurances at the UN HQ in New York that 350 Irish peacekeeping troops being deployed to Chad will be safe.”

Excuse me? Soldiers are being deployed to a war zone and he wants assurances that they will be safe? Is he for real? That’s like taking your child to a Rangers v Celtic match and looking for assurances that he will hear no bad language. No wonder people laugh at the Irish. “Oh yes we do have soldiers, but they can’t go into action unless we get assurances that they will be safe”.

yeah yeah, it would better to talk bout he really means, they don't want to be left up **** creek unnecessarily, there some mention of helicopter back up that would have saved those nigerians probably, although these guys I presume are going to be stationed at the border point refugee camps.

Mick86

purplengold wrote:

Excuse me? Soldiers are being deployed to a war zone and he wants assurances that they will be safe? Is he for real? ...

You should not confuse Dermot Ahern's concern for his own re-election with concern for Irish soldiers in Chad. Nobody anywhere can guarantee the complete safety of anybody and Mr Ahern knows that. His real concern is that when he goes knocking on doors in Drogheda and somebody's wife/husband/mother mentions his/her deceased husband/wife/child then he can pass the buck on to New York.

slapper2 wrote:

i'm sicko of the way the army is mammyed around no wonder they are the butt of the jokes

You're transferring the stupidity/wimpishness of an Irish politician onto the Irish DF. Has any soldier demanded a guarantee of his or her own safety?

lostexpectation

so the troops are finally going after the french decided to go with more troops and equipment and belgian and polish giving hardware too and they' leased helicopters

there very few people questioning it, when it was in the news a few weeks ago there were various td on Q&A with dermot ahern and o'dea, and they kept saying well I don't know much about this the minister must know more,so we'll take his word for it, although they were all asking about the lack of helicopters.

and again in the oireachtas committee nobody every was very deferential to the minister, not very like the opposition, only deirdre deburca and mary mcdonald have pointed out the the situation where france has troops there backing chad against its own rebels, so it will have military pact troops there with Mirages jets as back up for that and then french peacekeepers troops protecting sudanese and chadian borders refugees/populations

and then last week chad invaded sudan again bombing rebel positions (with small their own small aircraft and helicopters) and then the sudanese army have supposed to have attack a UN patrol???

because of this and because sudan refused permission sweden and norway have dropped out of sending engineers to the darfur au-eu force


but apparently this is okay because the irish troops will dance around the thousands of french troops wearing ginger wigs and carry fiddles like all frendly Oirish so they will suddenly become neutral and they won't have to battle anyone???

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jbWJxrInM3ZpVmwsyiM0m460l_vg

Manic Moran

I don't think many Irish troops are planning on going around and not having plenty of ammunition to hand. Any worthwhile mission isn't going to be easy.

NTM

Oilrig

Dermot Ahern's request for assurances on the troops safety is standard protocol for any such mission. It basically means that the host country is accountable in the event of an incident which their forces (de facto) or otherwise are involved. Any Gov. providing these assurances is more inclined to reign in the loose cannons in the area. Not a watertight guarantee of safety but useful none the less.

The guys going in will have carried out their own risk assessment and will have commensurate defensive measures in place to prevent outcomes such as that of the AU camp assault by "rebels". The AU aren't much of a military operation in anyone's book so don't confuse their capabilities with the EU force.

Good luck lads.

Maskhadov

purplengold wrote: »

“Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is to seek assurances at the UN HQ in New York that 350 Irish peacekeeping troops being deployed to Chad will be safe.”

what a pathetic joke

Tea drinker

purplengold wrote: »

“Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is to seek assurances at the UN HQ in New York that 350 Irish peacekeeping troops being deployed to Chad will be safe.”

Excuse me? Soldiers are being deployed to a war zone and he wants assurances that they will be safe? Is he for real? That’s like taking your child to a Rangers v Celtic match and looking for assurances that he will hear no bad language. No wonder people laugh at the Irish. “Oh yes we do have soldiers, but they can’t go into action unless we get assurances that they will be safe”.

Well I think he was looking for assurances that if our 400 fella's in the firing line are about to be expended, then they could expect the heaviest backup. Not an unreasonable request, given that we (Ireland) are incapable of providing said backup. I don't think it's because the rebels could use harsh language or refuse point blank to turn down the TV!
Also given the precedent where Irish troops were eventually overun in a previous UN operation due to lack of heavy support, it just looks like we want to avoid this again. Surely this is a goood thing - to offer protection to our guys and gals?
We've seen the UN lack bottle many times before, hopefully this won't be one of those times.

purple'n'gold

Love him or loath him at least Tony Blair didn’t look for any assurances that his troops would be safe when he sent them into Iraq. I think our foreign affairs minister did our troops no favours at all by his ridiculous request. They are soldiers, they know that it goes with the territory to be in harms way, and it is up to them to defend themselves and not get into situations that they cannot handle. If that’s not possible, them they should not be involved.

guinnessdrinker

I think what Dermot Ahern was saying was taken out of context.

Of course it is impossible to guarentee anyones safety. What he was looking for was assurances that there would at least be air support available to the troops on the ground. Any army on any mission will make sure they have this basic requirement in place during the planning stages.

It would have been crazy sending troops into an area they cannot evacuate casualties from quickly. Nobody could justify sending soldiers into an area and then forgetting about them. Helicopters are a basic requirement to any mission including this one.

purple'n'gold

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I think what Dermot Ahern was saying was taken out of context.

Of course it is impossible to guarentee anyones safety. What he was looking for was assurances that there would at least be air support available to the troops on the ground. Any army on any mission will make sure they have this basic requirement in place during the planning stages.

It would have been crazy sending troops into an area they cannot evacuate casualties from quickly. Nobody could justify sending soldiers into an area and then forgetting about them. Helicopters are a basic requirement to any mission including this one.

Then he should have looked for assurances that air support would be available. A reasonable request. Not look for assurances that our troops would be safe. A totally silly statement to make.

lostexpectation

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0131/darfur.html

so last we had these scences of the irish troops loading those masive cargo planes in their full gear to go to chad, but it seems the chadian rebels have decided to choose this time to try and take the capital again and the airport is not secure, what a surprise and coincidence,
the eu-un will claim to be netral but right now france is militarily helping the chadian government fight the rebels.

hows that for neutral


it seesm that the rebels wer moving towards a the capital and captured a town when the governement troops left becuase they didn't want to fight the rebels made up of alot of former soldiers.


on tuesday sudan again bombed rebels postions and the rebels reportedly crossed the border into sudan to get away, so anyone else caught up in that would probably have done the same, more idp's but of course I thought that the rish were trying to protect sudanese inside chad but but waht about the chad refugees inside sudan.

Victor

lostexpectation wrote: »

but waht about the chad refugees inside sudan.

There is a separate UN/AU (?) mission in Sudan

lostexpectation

of course victor your right I wonder who is directly on the other side of the border, seems the rebels are getting pretty far, don't know how they doing with just not much weaponary

aido_2006

slapper2 wrote: »

i'm sicko of the way the army is mammyed around no wonder they are the butt of the jokes

Ur an idiot!!!! im supposed to be going to chad if we ever get off the ground... u can bet ur ass we'll do a damn good job as we do wherever we go oversea's if we do!!!

guinnessdrinker

aido_2006 wrote: »

Ur an idiot!!!! im supposed to be going to chad if we ever get off the ground... u can bet ur ass we'll do a damn good job as we do wherever we go oversea's if we do!!!

Best of luck over there aido_2006.

passive

guinnessdrinker
Quote:
Best of luck over there aido_2006.

I second the motion, though disapprove of our soldiers using txt spk =P. heh... Good luck man, hope things clear up enough for you to get in there and do some good!

lostexpectation

go there do that okay duh, whatever /irish soldier

Dinter

Actually before any country sends troops on a UN sanctioned mission there is a risk assessment that answers whether troops involved will be safe. This is because firing protocols are heavily modified on a Peace Keeping mission as against a Peace Enforcement mission.

If troops aren't considered "safe" the times when they can open fire are less limited.

Sorry slapper2 but every contributing country asks the same question. This affair has been taken completely out of context. Try googling Niemba or Jadotville to see why this is an issue.