Disadvantages (or advantages) of city centre apartment living for young families

mambo

My girlfriend and I might potentially start a family in the next few years, and we would both lean towards the continental style model of city centre (or near city centre - e.g. ranelagh, rathmines, etc.) apartment living. (The thought of living in the suburbs with a big commute to work, and having to drive *everywhere* is not attractive to either of us).

There are some obvious disadvantages to living in a city centre apartment:


no back garden for little Tupac or Britney to run around in

general lack of space (unless you buy a large apartment)

possible additional cost of renting a car parking space

noise from neighbouring apartments keeping little Tupac awake at night, etc.

inner city schools not same quality as those in the "better" suburbs(?)

stigma(?) amongst fellow middle-class people of not living in a "proper" house in the suburbs


What does anyone see as other potential issues (and any clever ways to overcome them)?

Victor

The commute is a huge advantage - you actually get time for you and your family. There are lots of facilities practically on your doorstep from choice of shops, pubs, restaurants, cinema, medical, etc. - no need to spend €25 to get taxi home after a night out. The radial nature of Dublin's transport means you can access anywhere in the suburbs relatively directly.

One advantage relating to children is that city parks actually have playgrounds, not just a bit of grass.

CherieAmour

There is a distinct lack of community about living in an apartment. Nobody knows their neighbours and, in my experience, they don't want to. This could be either good or bad depending on what you want:)

Having lived in an apartment for nearly 3 years, the things that did my head in were people not respecting the communal areas - halls, landings etc. I also hated not having a garden. This didn't bother me at the start, but by the end it became a big issue for me.

The noise is a definite factor! My apartment had 5 other apartments above, below, on either side and to the back. It was just too much to depend upon all of these people to keep the noise down at one point or other.

I lived there for nearly 3 years, as I say, but in truth I really had had enough by the 2nd year. I found it was definitely suited to young singles/couples like me who are only passing through. I decided shortly after I moved in that I would never raise a family in it.

I took the option that you don't want and while the commute is tough, and having to drive everywhere, it's a small price to pay for having a whole house and garden to yourself.

Good luck with your decision.:)

mambo

I hear what you're saying about noise, but I've been living in an apartment block in Dublin 4 for over 10 years (with quite a few "mature" owner-occupiers) and never had a problem with noise from the apartment above, below or on either side, so I guess it is not always a problem, depending on the type of people living there and how strict the management comittee/agent on noise.

seamus

For me, an apartment is not somwhere a child should be brought up. From a young age, a child needs a garden they can run around in, and as they get older, they need a quiet cul de sac to play with their mates. Drive through Meath St and other such areas during the day and you'll see kids of 9/10, playing and cycling around on busy city streets.

That said, having a child in an apartment is fine up until they're a toddler.

That's just my opinion though. I look back at my own childhood and I can't imagine how smothered and unhappy I'd have been if I was living in an apartment with the rest of my family.

mambo

I take your point, but isn't there somewhat of a fixed mindset in Ireland that, if you can at all afford it, you should raise your family in a house? Admittedly, our city apartments tend to be too small for families, an issue which is currently being addressed - see http://www.independent.ie/national-news/familyfriendly-ban-on-shoebox-apartments-to-apply-nationwide-1083922.html

Whereas on the continent, it's much more "normal" for middle class families to live in apartments.

CherieAmour

The problem is that because apartment living is the norm on the continent and has been a way of life for far longer than it has here, you do have mature people and families living in them. Here, apartments are mainly occupied by singles or couples in their 20s/30s who aren’t adverse to partying the night away every weekend and sometimes during the week.

On the continent people have learned to respect their neighbours and certain behaviour is just not tolerated. We haven’t quite learned the same courtesy here when it comes to sharing a building with others.

I have a lasting memory of a little boy who lived in my apartment block and he never had anyone to play with. He used to amble around on his own looking quite lost and I felt so sorry for him.

Where I am now the kids have a great time playing out on the green – there are tons of them and they have the freedom to enjoy themselves in a place where their parents can see them.

It sounds to me mambo that you have made up your mind already, is there really anything that anyone could tell you here that would have the potential to make you reconsider?

mambo

No I haven't made up my mind :-) This is not an iminent issue so I guess we have a couple of years to think about it...

Dandelion6

mambo wrote:

inner city schools not same quality as those in the "better" suburbs(?)

Not as crowded as those in the suburbs, either. A friend of mine who's a primary teacher at a national school in Dublin Central has nine children this year. Of course, by the time your kids are old enough, they might just have closed down/combined all the city schools for lack of numbers ...

iguana

Two years ago I lived in an apartment beneath a couple with an 18 month daughter. The apartments had a communal grassy area, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a garden. The mother was a stay at home mother and in the day I would see her bring her daughter out to play outside for a while. But after 20 minutes or so outside the mother would have to go inside so the child had to go too. She would just sob and sob. Not whingy temper cries, but absolute sorrow.

The thing is that when you live in an apartment, you can certainly go to the parks with your kid when you have time. But unless they are much older you can't leave them there by themselves while you get on with things. When you have a garden you can leave your children to play outside while you do the washing up/make dinner. So the children have a lot more freedom.

I know lots of children do grow up in apartments but it's not a great childhood if you can only play outside when one of your parents is available to take you out.

SarahMc

I think city centre living can be great for children, so much on their doorstep, exposure to diversity etc., but apartment living is a no no, Ireland is just not there yet, so there will be no playmates and isolation for the child.

thesteve

CherieAmour wrote:

The problem is that because apartment living is the norm on the continent and has been a way of life for far longer than it has here

This is very true but also the apartments on the continent are designed a lot differently. I lived in Germany for a while and all my friends were apartment renters. Every one of them had at least a communal space with a large enough garden, place to have a bbq, etc. And they all respected each other's space. The apartments here are getting borderline japanese, trying to squeese as many as possible into one space and if you want anything of a comfortable liveable size you're talking big bucks...

Nermal

When I was young I wanted to live on a farm, but as a teenager I would prefer a city-centre apartment. Suburbs were the worst of both worlds really.

eth0_

If I were you I would stay well away from the city centre, it's not a safe place for a small child to grow up.

What about suburbs like ranelagh, rathmines, terenure, milltown?
Lots of parks and green areas around here, and they are nice areas to live in with easy access to the city centre.

How Strange

IMO, the disadvantages are:

1. Small apartments with little or no facilities for children
2. Families are not welcome in alot of complexes. The management companies see them as 'bringing down the tone of the development' by leaving toys outside, bringing pushchairs through corridors etc. They prefer couples or single people. (yes I have heard this being said first hand)
3. The lack of security in terms of your lease. You are at the mercy of the landlord and if he/she/they decide to up the rent or ask you to leave because you have a family then you have no rights. On the continent, you can negogiate a ten year lease. So you know that you will be living in the same area, your kids can make friends there and go to the same school every year.

I think it is a shame that the buildings in Dublin have been built without any consideration for families. Surely, it is families that give an area the 'community' feeling. They are the people who get involved with the local school etc. I shudder to think what Dublin city will be like in 10 years. How many families will live there?

IMO, that is the greatest mistake that the current government has made...to allow cities (not just Dublin) to become built up without any consideration who will live in it. Dublin will be a poorer place because of it.

eth0_

How Strange wrote:

I think it is a shame that the buildings in Dublin have been built without any consideration for families. Surely, it is families that give an area the 'community' feeling. They are the people who get involved with the local school etc. I shudder to think what Dublin city will be like in 10 years. How many families will live there?

Where do you expect builders to put new houses in the city centre? Space is at a premium, that's why apartment blocks get built.

They should be built in a more family friendly way, i.e. with soundproofing and green areas for kids to play in.

How Strange

eth0_ Quote:Where do you expect builders to put new houses in the city centre? Space is at a premium, that's why apartment blocks get built

eth0_, I didn't say anything about building houses what I said was:-

How Strange...I think it is a shame that the buildings in Dublin have been built without any consideration for families.

I think that new apartment blocks should have a significant number of 3 and 4bed apts to encourage families to live in the city centre.

AFAIK, developers are now legally obliged to provide more 3 bed apartments in new complexes but as property development has probably peaked you could say thats far too little far too late.

mambo

Some relevant articles from today's Irish Times (VI alert! owner of myhome.ie):

Home Truths
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1018/1192565693692.html

Why we must make it more attractive for people to live in apartments
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1018/1192565658486.html

Families happy coming back from the burbs
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1018/1192565658490.html

'Our child couldn't go out on the street on her own where we lived before'
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1018/1192565658488.html