Interesting Read

Peyton Manning

From a Liverpool supporter on RAWK:

’ve got a few things to get off my chest, but before I do, I want you to know that I’m not saying these things lightly. This is not a knee-jerk reaction to a few bad performances, nor is it based on a few isolated incidents, or on the evidence of a week or a month. These are things that have been bothering me now for four years. And I take no great pleasure in saying them.

Believe me, I’d rather not feel this way. We all love our club, and we all want to love the players that represent it. But I’m not blind, nor am I stupid. I’m 27 years old, and I’ve been watching football for twenty years. I’ve picked up a few things in that time, and my opinions are usually well-formed and have a reason, a basis in fact. You’ll all probably hate me for what I’m about to say, but I think it needs to be said. I really think it does, even if it’s controversial. And I think I might be onto something.

Now, some of you may have read my long (long) posts before. I realise they usually come across as partisan and confrontational. Well, maybe I am partisan when it comes to Liverpool F.C. I love this club. I think it’s the most special club in the world. I also love football. I always have. And as I see it, there’s much to be unhappy about in 2007 regarding the state of this sport that I love. There are many crimes being committed, much corruption going around.

But as I see it (and maybe I’m blinkered, you tell me), very little of that surrounds Liverpool, which is one of the few remaining bastions of what football once was when winning was not something to be achieved by any means necessary. That’s why I’m partisan, because this isn’t just a football club to me, and I don’t think it should be to anyone else either. There is so much to admire about this club and its people, both staff and supporters, that I will never stop defending it and never stop being partisan about it (if my writing suffers as a result, so be it).

But I love football too, and that’s where the confrontation comes from. If I say to you that Dida is a despicable, cheating bastard who deserves a six month suspension for what he did last night, that’s confrontational. Maybe the message gets lost because of the language I used. I don’t care. That’s what he is. Call a filthy cheat a filthy cheat, that’s what I say. Drogba, Ronaldo, Quaresma, Robben, so on. Call them what they are. Am I wrong? You see, there are three things I hate. The first one is:

1. Cheats.

And cheating is accepted. Dida didn’t just do a little bit of simulation last night. That was a slur against football. That was a crime. It’s like he slapped the **** out of every football fan in the world when he did that. But what kind of punishment will he get? **** all. It will just be accepted, while Celtic are punished all to hell for something that could have happened. Because that’s all it was. You’ve heard of reconstructions? Well this was like a reconstruction of something that didn’t happen.

With all that said, I’m about to get confrontational about something else. You see, I hate cheats, but there are two other things I hate as well:

2. People who don’t try.

3. People with no loyalty.

Now, we all hate lazy bastards. Trying, giving 100%, that’s something that everyone can do, whether you’re Maradona or Traore. Luckily, we don’t usually have to worry about that as Liverpool supporters. Usually. Likewise, loyalty is something that our club usually inspires in buckets. With the odd exception (e.g. Michael Owen, Steve McManaman), we can usually depend on our people loving the club and giving their all to it as long as they’re wanted here. Especially our captains.

Every club isn’t so lucky, unfortunately. Take this example of the captain of a major club. Look at this and tell me you don’t feel sympathy for that club’s supporters:

• Around early 2004, this individual (who professed his undying love for the club) began allowing himself to be courted by other teams. You see, he didn’t think his immense talents were being rewarded where he was (even though he had already won every major honour in the game bar two, was the captain of the club, and was a regular for his country, all at 23 years of age).
• By mid-2004, he had decided to leave. He wanted to go somewhere he was guaranteed glory. Didn’t matter where. Like your typical mercenary, feeling, emotion, that didn’t come into it. Cold hard currency was all he wanted, and in his case, this currency was medals and trophies. All the supporters could console themselves with was his repeated (empty) professions of love for the club.
• Eventually, he didn’t go. He changed his mind. Maybe the professions of love weren’t so empty after all. The club had a new manager, you see, a manager with one hell of a good reputation. Maybe he could turn things around? He decided to give him a season. What’s that? He (a player) was giving the manager a season to turn things around? Oh yes. You see, by this point, the player was well and truly bigger than the club. Bigger than the manager too. Hey – that’s what hype does.
• Needless to say, things didn’t turn around. His club were further off the pace in the league than ever, and all that seemed to be on offer was a minor cup. His mind began to wander. When asked about his future, he was always ambiguous, saying things like the club had to match his ambition, and we’ll see at the end of the season, etc.
• His form during this time was patchy, but the hype machine was in full flow. A glorious goal which qualified his club for the knockout stages of the lucrative Champions League was greeted as the second coming of Jesus Christ. A gutsy, memorable team performance (which included cameos by two young bit-part players) was thus reduced to the story of one man. Captain Utterly Fantastic Amazing. “Oh what will we do if he goes?” the supporters asked.
• Against all the odds, however, it looked as though the club might make an impact on the Champions League. While the man in question sat in the stand, his team put in a performance of substance and won a match they were expected to lose. And so an unexpected trip to the final began, which was characterised by guts, bravery and mediocre players playing above themselves, while a player now rated in the £30m bracket was anything but impressive.
• But why was he anything but impressive? Well, because his future was up in the air. But why was his future up in the air? Because he wouldn’t sign a new contract. But why wouldn’t he sign a new contract? Because he wanted to see if the club would “match his ambition” and win a major trophy. And was the club being helped in that goal by the man himself? No, not really. So was this whole silly cycle looking like it would be ultimately self-defeating? Yes. Now you’re catching on!
• In the Champions League final itself, his club triumphed in the most unlikely of circumstances, coming back from 0-3 down to win on penalties in what might be the greatest (certainly the most dramatic) Champions League Final of all-time. The man himself scored the first goal and set up the third, and was feted as the hero of the hour. But these were just cameos. In the first half, as the other team walked all over him, this player was utterly unable to get either himself or his team a foothold in the game. He was anonymous. Completely anonymous.
• This should have been the game in which this individual’s sham status as a great player was finally exposed. But, as always, the bad was glossed over with the good. He was the golden boy, and the hype machine cranked up again. After the game, he said “How can I leave now?” when asked about his future. Read into that: “Well, I’d have been off if we didn’t win, but we did, so I can stay.”
• Or could he? It seems that, with his statement that he couldn’t leave now, the club relaxed. A contract offer was not forthcoming quickly, or not quickly enough for the player. At any time during the season, he could have asked for a new contract. He didn’t because he wanted to see what the club would win. Suddenly, he wanted it done and dusted. Once again, he was dictating to the club. Oh that hype sure does inflate an ego!
• So, instead of sitting down and rationally discussing this, the man of the moment slapped in a transfer request and was off. Someone with more money than sense offered £32m for a sulky, immature, spoiled, egotistical brat who had just spent most of the Champions League Final running around chasing shadows and hoping for the best. It looked like a done deal. Suddenly, those professions of love for the club were ringing hollow again.
• But wait! A day later, he changed his mind! Good God! Now he was staying! Hooray! The club was saved! Captain Utterly Fantastic Amazing was staying! Yay! For love of the club . . . and £110,000 a week.
• So the new season began, and the skipper made mince-meat of the mighty champions of Wales, scoring five goals in two games. Wow! That would up his goals total at the end of the season, and that would make more fuel for the hype machine.
• The season ended with the captain saving his team in the FA Cup Final, scoring two stunning goals and setting up another. It was the one good performance in a pretty dire team display. But once again, the hype machine spluttered into life. Suddenly, it was his final. Nobody else was on the pitch. And the opposition manager was saying that the only reason his team lost was because of Captain Utterly Fantastic Amazing (even though his own team’s goals were an o.g, a goalkeeping mistake and a sliced cross).
• Anyway, at least he was happy now. He went off to play in the World Cup, the club was matching his ambition, and he was chuffed. But there was a cloud on the horizon. What now? Oh, see he didn’t like being made to play out of position in order to suit the team. No. And so began a pattern that hasn’t ended yet of his manager being victimised, scrutinised and undermined by a media who don’t want their golden boy playing out of position. And how did Captain Utterly Fantastic Amazing respond? He said he didn’t like playing on the right side of midfield because that was “The Graveyard Shift.”
• Naturally, when he got to play centrally and in an attacking, glory-hunter’s wet-dream position of just behind the striker in the club’s second Champions League Final in three seasons, he played . . . well, ****, and scored . . . well, **** all. His team then lost. But, as usual, it wasn’t his fault.

Now, I’m as subtle as a sledge-hammer to the face, I know. You’re well aware of who I’m talking about, so I’m just going to lay it on the line now. I don’t like Steven Gerrard. I don’t like the way he’s been playing for the past three, four seasons, which have been characterised by too many average performances from a man allegedly worth £32m and £110,000 per week. These average performances, of course, are largely papered over by the odd spectacular cameo, and a media fan club led by Andy Gray and Jamie Redknapp, who can see no wrong when it comes to Stevie.

I don’t like what he says off the pitch. He doesn’t love this club like he says he does, no. And if he does, then the evidence I’ve seen is way off. He loves football, he loves winning, he loves medals and trophies. Those are his major preoccupations. Anyone who adores this club like he says he does would not have considered leaving it for medals. He would have done his level best to win them here. By the time he appeared to be leaving in 2005, he had won an FA Cup, 2 League Cups, a Champions League, a UEFA Cup, a European Super Cup, was the captain of the club, an England regular, and making crazy money. All at 24. So forgive me if I have little sympathy for him on this subject.

I don’t like the way he undermines Rafa Benitez. In his autobiography, why did he feel the need to say that he hates playing on the right of midfield? Did he not feel like that might undermine his manager? Why did he feel the need to say that Benitez is cold, unfriendly? What has that got to do with anything? Most of all, why bring out a biography at 26 that’s going to potentially affect things in your (and other people’s) career? Why call Gattuso names? He has more Champions League medals than Gerrard, that’s for sure. What he said about him was just pure disrespect.

So you know what? I don’t think much of Steven Gerrard. In my opinion, a player worth £32m, who is hyped as the best midfielder in the world, who is meant to be so good that he can put his club on trial for two seasons, who is so important that he can undermine his manager at will should not be having off days like he’s been having for, not just this season, but for the past three to four.

Last night against Marseille was the final straw for me. Already this season, I’ve heard him criticising the rotation policy, making digs about having been played on the right side of midfield (“you’ll have to ask Benitez”), and he’s also played for England against the manager’s wishes. He’s also been playing ****, and I’m sick of the blind hype pushed by Andy Gray and Jamie Redknapp. Newsflash for you, Redders. Stevie has been played on the right for a total of TEN MINUTES this season. You might want to stop mentioning it now.

Hype, hype, hype. Last night, a real midfield general like Keane or Vieira would have taken that game by the scruff of the neck and got us going. He was just a spectator again. Sure, I know Sissoko was worse, but Momo isn't rated in the £30m bracket. At one point last night, a corner came in and Stevie took a first-time shot. He sliced the ball back out to Voronin, who took the corner. Instead of getting his head back in the game and preparing for the cross, he pulled his jersey up over his head as if to say “ground, swallow me up.” That says it all about this guy lately. Just get your head in the ****ing game.

Stevie reminds me of an American Football player I once knew by the name of Desmond Howard. Howard was a member of the Green Bay Packers team that won the Superbowl in 1996, their first since 1967. He was a Wide Receiver, which meant that his primary job was to catch balls thrown to him by the Quarterback, in the process gaining field position and hopefully scoring touchdowns. But he was a DISASTER as a Wide Receiver, a disaster. I can’t remember where he was in the pecking order, but I think there was four people ahead of him in a team not known for the quality of its wide men.

So why do I mention him? Because Desmond Howard was voted MVP (most valuable player) of the aforementioned Superbowl win. But why? How? If he was an unmitigated failure as a receiver, how was he the best player in the game? Because, at a finely-balanced moment of the game, he returned a kick-off 99 yards for a touchdown. That got him the MVP award. And a big fat contract with the Oakland Raiders.

Stevie is similar, and I’ve been saying this for a while (not too loudly, as every Liverpool supporter I know thinks the sun shines out of his arse). He’s a good player who can be occasionally brilliant, but he’s no Roy Keane or Patrick Vieira. I’m sick of seeing him sulk, seeing him by-passed in midfield like he was last night, against Galatasaray last season, against Milan in 2005, and everytime we play Manchester United. If this guy wasn’t hyped to **** to the point where he’s portrayed as the be-all and end-all of Liverpool F.C, then I mightn’t be so pissed-off.

I'm not buying the excuses about rotation. Great players don’t play like he’s played against Birmingham and Marseille this season, and how he’s played countless times over the past four seasons no matter who's playing around him. Great players are felt, and not just sometimes. Cameos are great, consistency is better. To me, that £32m Chelsea were offering is looking better every season.

I mean, would we really be that much worse off with Alonso/Essien, Mascherano/Essien in midfield?

joe123

Some good points in there. Im a massive liverpool fan but while I admit Gerrard is a great player he is over rated. He does not love the club and thats why I will never see him in the same light as I do the likes of Jamie Carragher and Robbie Fowler.

Ever since that nearly joining chelsea thing it sort of showed he was always open to moves away from the club even if its to one of liverpools biggest rivals.

Owen and Gerrard are very similar in regards to money matters in football. Rules their heart.

Regards to last night...Carragher had a go at Gerrard and its not often youd see that.

DeadSkin

Interesting read alright, he has a lot of valid points and well written.
That time when he was about to go to Chelsea, I was saying good riddance, if a player wants to leave a club, let him off, get as much money as you can for him and move on.
No player should be bigger than the club.
At least Owen had the balls to go to Madrid that time, I was damn glad he didn't come back to Anfield when he left Madrid though.

leninbenjamin

i dont see any overall purpose to that post. what's he trying to say at the end of the day? football is full of cheats and corruption? football has no loyalty? Gerrard should be sold? Dida should be shot?

seems like one long rant over a number of areas to me. he maks some points i'd agree with, but there nothing new, dunnow hy this post in particular would deserve special mention tbh.

for the record, i'm not a pool fan but i felt they should have cashed in on Gerrard when they had the chance after his behaviour.

PHB

I think the guy is closer to Rafa than most of the fans. I think he sees the problems in Gerrards game and puts him on the right, because when he's on the right, his faults don't affect the team so much. Also, he never mentioned how he hated Gerrard for diving too which is always funny

Smegball

Brilliant read there, well found

MrJoeSoap

Great post, not just about Gerrard in particular, but football mercenaries as a whole. Nobody on this earth deserves £110,000 a week, least of all a sportsman.

Mr Magnolia

Thanks Archimedes. Enjoyed the read.

At the end of last season I was of the opinion that Gerrard should be played in the middle or sold on. He has far convinced me this season that the middle of the pitch is where he should roost.

Saying that, the faults for last nights performance cannot be laid solely at Stevie's door. I don't agree with Rafa's rotation policy and never have.

Also, I don't feel that Sissoko, Vornin, Pennant, Crouch and maybe one or two others are good enough to be in a top-4 team, they shouldn't have been brought into the club IMO.

bbop

Benitiez would have been far happier if Gerrard had left for Chelsea, would have given him the cash to make the squad he wanted. I dont think Benitez can be completely let off the hook with his squad rotations but Gerrard hasnt been pulling his weight for many seasons and anyone who watches Liverpool cant say we are better with him in the centre

herbieflowers

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Great post, not just about Gerrard in particular, but football mercenaries as a whole. Nobody on this earth deserves £110,000 a week, least of all a sportsman.

True, but the money is only in relation to how big the game has become worldwide with the advent of the Sky era etc

MrJoeSoap

herbieflowers wrote:

True, but the money is only in relation to how big the game has become worldwide with the advent of the Sky era etc

Ah yeah I understand that, but I'm of the opinion that the more money is pumped into the sport, the more soul-less it becomes. A player earning £110,000 a week has no more passion than a player earning £10 a week, and I would argue that they probably have less.

Third_Echelon

The main reason he doesn't love the club is because he was brought up as an Evertonian

I've been saying all of the above article to my liverpool supporting mates for the past number of years... He is over-rated. Plays in patches.

Don't get me wrong. He's a good player, but the above article hit the nail right on the head....

The Sky Sports fanboys never help matters. They always jump on the flavour of the month and think they are the best thing since sliced bread... Remember the whole Spurs flaunting from christmas on last season? Spurs are great, bla bla bla... Look at them now!

_blank_

millersangel is going to have a heart attack.

In fact, I think he may have already had it, becasue he hasn't posted in this thread yet.

Congratulations Archimedes, murder of an enemy by Forum Post.

You are a genius.

Peyton Manning

DesF wrote:

millersangel is going to have a heart attack.

In fact, I think he may have already had it, becasue he hasn't posted in this thread yet.

Congratulations Archimedes, murder of an enemy by Forum Post.

You are a genius.

rofl

Ah sure millersangel isnt the worst auld fellow I guess.

_blank_

Archimedes wrote:

rofl

Ah sure millersangel isnt the worst auld fellow I guess.

I hate this.

The way people say "shure he was a great lad" and stuff after a fella has died, when in reality they hated him.

Peyton Manning

I'll let you know that my opinion of him greatly changed once I put him on my ignore list. Cant make the funeral though, watching Heroes online Im afraid.

herbieflowers

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Ah yeah I understand that, but I'm of the opinion that the more money is pumped into the sport, the more soul-less it becomes. A player earning £110,000 a week has no more passion than a player earning £10 a week, and I would argue that they probably have less.

Yeah I agree, unfortunately that's just the way these things go...

Thanx 4 The Fish

Archimedes wrote:

Ah sure millersangel isnt the worst auld fellow I guess.

And yet you call him a troll repeatedly and report him for such almost every time that he makes a post on the United thread :rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

DesF wrote:

I hate this.

The way people say "shure he was a great lad" and stuff after a fella has died, when in reality they hated him.

+1

Peyton Manning

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

And yet you call him a troll repeatedly and report him for such almost every time that he makes a post on the United thread :rolleyes:

I would have thought Mods were not allowed discuss posts that were anonymously reported in threads such as this? Do your job properly.

PHB

Reported posts aren't anonymous

_blank_

PHB wrote:

Reported posts aren't anonymous

People who can read them are not supposed to discuss them on public forums.:)

Thanx 4 The Fish

Perhaps you should stop doing so then Des

_blank_

Can I see reported posts?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Are you a mod ?

vorbis

I have to disagree with the OP. To me its another example of the hyper negativity thats overwhelming in todays game. Pretty much every player will be called **** at some point in their career. It usually only takes 1 or 2 bad amtches. Gerrard's main asset is scoring good goals at big moments. Thats quite a handy asset! He's like a better version of Luis Garcia.

He's not an all dominating midfielder but is effective in the same way that Lampard is. I agree Gerrard doesn't produce week in week out but very few players do. Why does this come as a surprise to people? Every player on the planet has off days. Thats why you put other good players in your team as well!

kinaldo

Wasn't there a time when Stevie G was playing so well that even Alex Ferguson hailed him as the best player in England? I think this was around 2003 when he also described Raul as the best player in the world.

Roar

vorbis wrote:

I have to disagree with the OP. To me its another example of the hyper negativity thats overwhelming in todays game. Pretty much every player will be called **** at some point in their career. It usually only takes 1 or 2 bad amtches. Gerrard's main asset is scoring good goals at big moments. Thats quite a handy asset! He's like a better version of Luis Garcia.

He's not an all dominating midfielder but is effective in the same way that Lampard is. I agree Gerrard doesn't produce week in week out but very few players do. Why does this come as a surprise to people? Every player on the planet has off days. Thats why you put other good players in your team as well!

how many good goals has at big moments has he scored?

when you have that worked out, spread it out over the duration of his career..

probably one good goal in a big moment for every 30 games.. the other 29 games he watches the game pass him by.. probably..

~Rebel~

Honestly, if you really thought his contribution was 1 good goal every 30 games followed by 29 games passing him by, do you think he'd be rated anywhere near where he is? Poor comment imo.

Yeah he plays rubbish at times, and ill never see him the same way since all his crap over the 2 Chelsea summers, and truth be told, when there was a chance of him leaving i wouldnt exactly have shed a tear, once he was sufficiently replaced. If he wanted out, screw him, would be my view.

but he did stay, and once he gives his all ill view him fairly as i view the rest with only Carra maintaining godlike status.

He played well before the international break, and actually looked like this would be his best season, back in the center. But his performances (and others) have dropped over the past few weeks, and they all need a major wakeup call. His, and others, effort levels need to raise, so that even if they have a bad game they're at least seen to be running the socks off and getting stuck in.

jesus_thats_gre

Fair enough points. Agree with PHB to be honest.

Roar

~Rebel~ wrote:

Honestly, if you really thought his contribution was 1 good goal every 30 games followed by 29 games passing him by, do you think he'd be rated anywhere near where he is? Poor comment imo.

no, he's overhyped massively by the english press, that's why he's "rated" anywhere near he is (which is where exactly? you might provide a reference point the next time you make such vague comments)

as for the one good goal at big moments happening once every 30 games, i can only remember it happening twice, in the champions league final and against west ham in the cup..

maybe someone else can disprove my theory for me, i dunno

kinaldo

He scored a cracker against Man Utd in the league cup final too

Roar

three games! that's 10 million quid a game.. or something..

d22ontour

He also dived to get a penalty in the champions league final against Milan but the pool won so it's never remembered.

Mr Alan

Well written piece all right, agree with a lot of it.

Some of it is nonsense too though tbh.

Gerrard was looking to leave Liverpool for years? Where oh where did the he hear this? It most certainly isn't in his biography? The Gerrard/Chelsea situation is a lot more complicated that people like to think (especially fans of rival clubs), but he decided to stay and offered to give up the captaincy, yes he wanted to be with a club that would win trophies (he has won every honour he really can with the exception of the PL) but it means so much more to him to do it with Liverpool-he has gone down in a lot of fans eyes since that incident, but even still, he is more loyal than 99.9% of footballers in the PL today. To write an article citing him as an example of being unloyal is a bit of a joke imo.

As for him as a player? Peoples opinions vary. Last few games (since the international break) he has been poor, no doubt about it,and i'd be the first to say it..... but before that he was MOM against Chelsea and won us the game at Villa?!?! wat more do people want? someone who plays amazingly every week??? I'm sorry, but no such player exists..........as for whoever it was who said Keane/Viera wouldn't have had a game like Gerrard had last night? Nonsense, if i'm not mistaken Mr. Keane was on the pitch, and did **** all for many of Utds dire European performances.

People just like to moan, human nature i guess.

Gerrard, as a person, i wouldnt be a massive fan of (and i hate hate hate his wife)

but as a player? I don't think there is many players in WORLD football who bring to the table wat he does. How many games has he saved our bacon,run of the mill PL games? loads. breathtaking FA cup final performances, awe inspiring second half performance in Istanbul.

Also the person who said he was not as loyal as Fowler? I'd advise you read Fowlers book, might be something of an eye opener, at one point he was quite close to moving to Utd :eek:

Anyway, good man Archimedes, makes a change from the usual nonsense you write. . . well found article . . . . you a member of many Liverpool fansites btw? or just Red And White Kop?

23 goals season before last by the way, so whoever said he's done **** all over the last 4 years is mental

Could someone quote my response please, so Archimedes can see it, think i may be on his naughty list

kinaldo

don't forget the dramatic late thunder strike against *******kos they needed to qualify from their group before going on to win it

think he scored about 23 that year!

wtf, why is 'olympi a kos' considered an expletive?!

Mr Alan

Venue on dame street-law suit etc etc.

d22ontour

millersangel wrote:

Some of it is nonsense too though tbh.

The Gerrard/Chelsea situation is a lot more complicated that people like to think (especially fans of rival clubs), but he decided to stay

That was nice of him then , eh ? He was after the paypacket and got it just like the 99.9% of footballers you mentioned ...

Mr Alan

Nice of him? Dont think u can really look at it like that tbh . . .

he wasnt doing it for anyone but himself. . . .he is one of the worlds top midfield players, he was tempted to leave the the league champions, he didnt,one of the reasons being his love for his hometown club, he got a new contract, new wages etc....fair **** to him i say tbh. of all the overpaid players in the world, i wouldnt begrudge gerrard his paypacket . . . he is quite good ya know!

LuckyLloyd

I'm a diehard Liverpool fan. Gerrard annoys me too a lot of the time. And I'd play him on the right every game if it was my decision. And I'd make Carragher club captain.

BUT: he is still an asset overall - and we would be a lesser team without him.

~Rebel~

Roar wrote:

no, he's overhyped massively by the english press, that's why he's "rated" anywhere near he is (which is where exactly? you might provide a reference point the next time you make such vague comments)

as for the one good goal at big moments happening once every 30 games, i can only remember it happening twice, in the champions league final and against west ham in the cup..

maybe someone else can disprove my theory for me, i dunno

Its a relative question obviously, but its very safe to say that by anyone that watches he is among the best midfielders in england.

And the important part I was pointing out was where you said 1 big moment ever 30 games while the other 29 pass him by. In actual fact for the games where he doesnt produce something magical, he still plays better then most.

Also the way your saying "well what big moments are there" and counting up the examples and comparing them to the games in a year (or 30), that doesnt make much sense, as there are only a small number of big big games per year, which massively increases his % of big moments per big games.

Another one to add to your list is when he secured us 3 points with one of the best free kicks i've ever seen, at the death against Villa. yes i know the free shouldn't have been a free, petrov got a nick on the ball, but what followed was pure talent, and while it was Villa and not a champions league final, the exact circumstances still render it a pretty important high pressure situation, imo.

And I suppose the one big team we've played so far is Chelsea, so you can probably include the perfect through ball he slid in for Torres as well.

I absolutely agree that he is overrated, at times he does drift out of games, but I find his biggest problem is him forcing himself into posession in other players positions rather then letting them get on with it while he makes himself available. Sometimes seems like he doesnt trust his teammates. This somewhat explains how we sometimes get better passing going when he's not there.

As LuckyLoyd said though, he's a valuable assett and Liverpool with Gerrard is better then Liverpool without Gerrard.

leninbenjamin

in fairness i think Gerrard is really over rated tbh. just coz he's english he gets mentioned as being one of the world's best. bullplop imo. He's athletic and he has a decent long range pass and shot. that's about it in my view. doesn't have the creativity of Pirlo, Kaka, Deco, Fabregas, Scholes and so on... everything is forced with him. and for someone as highly rated as he is he tends to go missing for a lot more of the season than he should. he holds Liverpool back in my view. his tendency to resort to long passing hinders their ability to develop a close passing game like Arsenal that would win them a lot more games. And, while you can view his sticking with liverpool as a positive in terms of loyalty, it still wasn't necessarily the best for the club. all the speculation was a destabilizing presence, and everything else tended to get put on hold while Gerrard's own contractual situation was sorted.

Gerrard is akin to a Kanchelskis or an Ince in my view, a very good player but one who ultimately needs to be sacrificed for the club to progress....

herbieflowers

millersangel wrote:

Nice of him? Dont think u can really look at it like that tbh . . .

he wasnt doing it for anyone but himself. . . .he is one of the worlds top midfield players, he was tempted to leave the the league champions, he didnt,one of the reasons being his love for his hometown club, he got a new contract, new wages etc....fair **** to him i say tbh. of all the overpaid players in the world, i wouldnt begrudge gerrard his paypacket . . . he is quite good ya know!

That's precisely the point the OP was making, football's become too individualised, players are more concerned with what they can milk out of the game than any notion of loyalty...it was the sentiment of trying to move in the first place that hurt the OP more than making a u-turn...

Mr Alan

herbieflowers wrote:

That's precisely the point the OP was making, football's become too individualised, players are more concerned with what they can milk out of the game than any notion of loyalty...it was the sentiment of trying to move in the first place that hurt the OP more than making a u-turn...

Gerrard didn't try to move, the reason he handed in a transfer request was because he thought he was going to be sold at the last minute, if he was leaving he wanted it to be on his terms, as soon as it was clear Liverpool wanted to keep him, he signed his new contract and signed another one since.

I honesty don't know what more people want from him?
A liver bird tatooeed on his face?
Him to play for free while making millions and millions for the club?

Aquos76

FFS... Gerrard was only hours away from joining Chelsea. He appartently received threads and the sight of some pool supporters burning his jersey outside Anfield made him change his mind.

Liverpool through and through my bollocks.

Mr Alan

Aquos76 wrote:

FFS... Gerrard was only hours away from joining Chelsea. He appartently received threads and the sight of some pool supporters burning his jersey outside Anfield made him change his mind.

Liverpool through and through my bollocks.

Not sure how close he actually was, you seem to be though . . . did he ever meet with anyone from Chelsea to discuss contracts etc?

The stuff about the threats and kids burning his jersey just is not true, sorry to disappoint.

millersangel

millersangel wrote:

The stuff about the threats and kids burning his jersey just is not true, sorry to disappoint.

Well considerin they showed people burning their Gerrard jerseys on SSN and there were reports of threats to his family around the time too.

Aquos76

millersangel wrote:

The stuff about the threats and kids burning his jersey just is not true, sorry to disappoint.

I was full sure that there were images on SSN of the jersey been burned. I'm sure others may remember the incidend also.

For Liverpool fans it's unthinkable that Gerrard could ever don the jersey of another team. And it was those sentiments which led to the protests outside Anfield - including the burning of his shirt - when he announced he would leave the club in July 2005.

link

Mr Alan

i didnt mean the kid didnt burn his jersey, it was on SSN, i meant thats not the reason he stayed,according to him.
you seem to know otherwise?

Aquos76

millersangel wrote:

i didnt mean the kid didnt burn his jersey, it was on SSN, i meant thats not the reason he stayed,according to him.
you seem to know otherwise?

Ah right, I just took this statement at face value. My mistake

The stuff about the threats and kids burning his jersey just is not true, sorry to disappoint

Mr Alan

Aquos76 wrote:

Ah right, I just took this statement at face value. My mistake

fair enough i should have been clearer, but my point remains the same, people who love to knock Gerrard forget the reasons he nearly left, or are just too lazy and stupid to actually check out wat they are. Nothing to do with money etc etc.

As for the threats against his family, i don't actually think there is any truth to that at all tbh.