Extreme negativity towards players nowadays?

vorbis

Every good player these days it seems is just one or two bad matches away from "I aways thought he was crap" comments. On this forum and others people just seem to love hating on players.

A few cases.
Henry:
He's sulky, moody but a fantastic player. For 5 seasons at Arsenal, he was unstoppable. He played about as well as you're going to get from a striker.

Yet negative comments about supposedly not performing in big matches were the most people could say about him. His many good matches were just "against bad teams, anyone could do that". Even now you'll probably find a few people who'll say he wasn't really that good.

Gerrard:
Right now, there's a post in this forum effectively saying that he's a pretty average player. His game winning goals are dismissed as cameos. Wtf?? Football is about scoring goals, I'll take any player who scores game winning goals, thank you very much.

Lampard:
His main asset is scoring goals. From midfield. Football is about SCORING GOALS. A midfielder who scores more than 20 in a season is playing well. End of story. If I was a manager, I couldn't care if he scratches his ass with the corner flag for 80 minutes of the game as long as he scores. For a few seasons, Lampard was Mr Consistent in terms of scoring goals. His play fell last season and immediately people are saying he's ****e, never really been that good. My favourite was that he scores a lot of deflected goals lol. I missed the page in the fifa rulebook where it said those don't count.

C Ronaldo:
This is one of the worst. Some people have had it in for him ever since he arrived in the premiership. Some people just could not get over the fact that he did stepovers. My favourite criticism of him is the "lack of end product". Usually an rte pundit would show a clip of Ronaldo crossing a ball that no one gets near to prove that. I've seen Ronaldo put in countless decent crosses (some of which led to goals). However some pundits judge him against a criteria where every cross in the world must be good. Name me one player who ever played soccer who can do that!!

Even as he was tearing up the scoring charts last season (from the wing!), people persisted in saying he wasn't that good!

Rio Ferdinand:
He is a bit of a bollox but the statistics are undeniable here. The Man Utd defence imploded the season he "forgot" to take a drug test. This season, they have left in what 2 league goals. However people continue to see Ferdinand as a liability! He's a very good and capable defender. He makes mistakes but then I've seen everyone's hero Cannavaro make mistakes. I also remember a shocker from Nesta in the Rome derby a few years ago.


Michael Carrick, Momo Sissoko, Owen Hargreaves etc:
Holding midfielders tend to produce a certain amount of bile from some people. Frankly, when I watch a game, I don't really see a whole lot of a holding midfielder. A lot of the work is by nature unseen. Yet, on football sites and occasionally here, you'll see a rant about why one of the above is absolutely crap, can't pass the ball should never play again etc. Of the three, Carrick is imo the worst but still somewhat competent.

I could go on about more players but in the general the players above are / were some of the best in the premiership if not the world. You really aren't going to find much better than them. Yet there are a lot of people who fervently believe that at least one of them is crap. Not average but crap. It doesn't seem to be banter but a deeply held opinion. It is bizarre that people are convinced that some of the best players in the world are rubbish.

KdjaCL

Im guessing 2.5 million a week would be their collective wage.

The "horriblus anus" of being well paid to do a job for people who may expect you do to what players they recall did for fractions.

Comes with the job really.

most gripes people have with players is they are "not arsed" and only the young players of this world are. The list above contains safe players not gonna go into my disagreements with the list but all are safe and on long contracts with mega bucks so the "not arsed " tag sticks to them so fans fo their clubs may see that as a serious lack of effort to the club.

Fans always know better.


make a list of players that fans are raving about, bet they all under 21 and hungry to play ball 2.5 million collectivley hasnt corrupted them yet.

So my rule would be pay per play for all players.


kdjac

vorbis

sure the money in footbal is ridiculous but fans seem willing to finance it.
I'm not worried about the players in question egos (I'm sure they're fine!).
Rather that some people just don't seem to understand soccer (every player will have bad games) or that they expected performances to improve ten fold beacuse players wages went up ten fold.

tdv

vorbis wrote:

Every good player these days it seems is just one or two bad matches away from "I aways thought he was crap" comments. On this forum and others people just seem to love hating on players.

A few cases.
Henry:
He's sulky, moody but a fantastic player. For 5 seasons at Arsenal, he was unstoppable. He played about as well as you're going to get from a striker.

Yet negative comments about supposedly not performing in big matches were the most people could say about him. His many good matches were just "against bad teams, anyone could do that". Even now you'll probably find a few people who'll say he wasn't really that good.

Gerrard:
Right now, there's a post in this forum effectively saying that he's a pretty average player. His game winning goals are dismissed as cameos. Wtf?? Football is about scoring goals, I'll take any player who scores game winning goals, thank you very much.

Lampard:
His main asset is scoring goals. From midfield. Football is about SCORING GOALS. A midfielder who scores more than 20 in a season is playing well. End of story. If I was a manager, I couldn't care if he scratches his ass with the corner flag for 80 minutes of the game as long as he scores. For a few seasons, Lampard was Mr Consistent in terms of scoring goals. His play fell last season and immediately people are saying he's ****e, never really been that good. My favourite was that he scores a lot of deflected goals lol. I missed the page in the fifa rulebook where it said those don't count.

C Ronaldo:
This is one of the worst. Some people have had it in for him ever since he arrived in the premiership. Some people just could not get over the fact that he did stepovers. My favourite criticism of him is the "lack of end product". Usually an rte pundit would show a clip of Ronaldo crossing a ball that no one gets near to prove that. I've seen Ronaldo put in countless decent crosses (some of which led to goals). However some pundits judge him against a criteria where every cross in the world must be good. Name me one player who ever played soccer who can do that!!

Even as he was tearing up the scoring charts last season (from the wing!), people persisted in saying he wasn't that good!

Rio Ferdinand:
He is a bit of a bollox but the statistics are undeniable here. The Man Utd defence imploded the season he "forgot" to take a drug test. This season, they have left in what 2 league goals. However people continue to see Ferdinand as a liability! He's a very good and capable defender. He makes mistakes but then I've seen everyone's hero Cannavaro make mistakes. I also remember a shocker from Nesta in the Rome derby a few years ago.


Michael Carrick, Momo Sissoko, Owen Hargreaves etc:
Holding midfielders tend to produce a certain amount of bile from some people. Frankly, when I watch a game, I don't really see a whole lot of a holding midfielder. A lot of the work is by nature unseen. Yet, on football sites and occasionally here, you'll see a rant about why one of the above is absolutely crap, can't pass the ball should never play again etc. Of the three, Carrick is imo the worst but still somewhat competent.

I could go on about more players but in the general the players above are / were some of the best in the premiership if not the world. You really aren't going to find much better than them. Yet there are a lot of people who fervently believe that at least one of them is crap. Not average but crap. It doesn't seem to be banter but a deeply held opinion. It is bizarre that people are convinced that some of the best players in the world are rubbish.

Statistics don't tell the whole story.

KdjaCL

vorbis wrote:

sure the money in footbal is ridiculous but fans seem willing to finance it.
I'm not worried about the players in question egos (I'm sure they're fine!).
Rather that some people just don't seem to understand soccer (every player will have bad games) or that they expected performances to improve ten fold beacuse players wages went up ten fold.

Answer A: players are well paid to play in the top league and Cl why shouldnt they perfom.

Answer B: Players have off games but they are pros so should at least work their asses off when they not playing well.

Both answers come down to the money, you picked a bad choice for your list all safe in 5 year contracts with mega money. i do disagree with your lsit in footballing terms ie Henry big games it may have been a big game for the defender who marked him out of the game too?

Sissoko isnt a Champions league player tho.


kdjac

d22ontour

vorbis wrote:

Every good player these days it seems is just one or two bad matches away from "I aways thought he was crap" comments. On this forum and others people just seem to love hating on players.

Last time i checked having an opinion on players is just cause to express it whether its positive or negative.

aidan24326

vorbis wrote:

Rio Ferdinand:
He is a bit of a bollox but the statistics are undeniable here. The Man Utd defence imploded the season he "forgot" to take a drug test. This season, they have left in what 2 league goals. However people continue to see Ferdinand as a liability! He's a very good and capable defender. He makes mistakes but then I've seen everyone's hero Cannavaro make mistakes. I also remember a shocker from Nesta in the Rome derby a few years ago

I have to agree with you here. I don't like Ferdinand, I think he's a tosser but a look at United's defensive record this and the last couple of seasons suggests he's doing something right. That season he was banned United conceded far more goals while he was absent from the team. He has a questionable attitude compared to the likes of Terry and Carragher but the stats do show that United's defence gives away less goals when he's in it.

KdjaCL

aidan24326 wrote:

I have to agree with you here. I don't like Ferdinand, I think he's a tosser but a look at United's defensive record this and the last couple of seasons suggests he's doing something right. That season he was banned United conceded far more goals while he was absent from the team. He has a questionable attitude compared to the likes of Terry and Carragher but the stats do show that United's defence gives away less goals when he's in it.

Utds best defence ever has Silvestre (not bruce or pallister) in it as CB 19 goals in one season (i like him ) do stats mean nothing then?


kdjac

Jazzy

i saw pool yesterday and im afraid to say, momo is crap

leninbenjamin

Henry: after Vieira and Bergkamp left he became King of Arsenal and he revelled in it and expected it. he was a horrible captain. watch a game he was involved in in the previous two seasons and all you will see is him berating his teammates, but not for playing **** but for failing to give him the ball regardless of whether he was in the opposition half or not. his ego became to big. he thought he was Arsenal tbh.

Gerrard: technical ability is overrated. influence on the club can be destabilizing at times. can score goals and create things, but too often is just a waste of a midfield space. much better non-english players out there than him imo that dont get the recognition.

Lampard: Scores goals. fair enough, but does sweet **** all else. Makele, Mikel and Essien do so much of the dog work and occupy so much of the opposition midfield that Lampard really has to do sweet **** all to do anything. again because he's engerlish he tends to get over rated. look how much better The English national side is when he doesn't start as proof of his superfluousness imo. they play so much better as a team.

C Ronaldo. brilliant footballer but more because of his pace than any technical ability imo. some of the ciriticism he gets is un substantiated though.

Rio Ferdinand: in fairness like almost all defenders this guy is only as good as his partner, but he will always be the passive element of a defense for me. he'll never be a Kolo Touré and be able to pick up his team by the scruff of the neck and get them playing. he's hyped as one of the best, but again there are much beter denders than him out there.

Michael Carrick, Momo Sissoko, Owen Hargreaves etc: well this is the main element i agree with the OP. these are the guys that make your lampard, and gerrard and your Scholes' look good. at least two holding midfielders is an essential part to almost any winning foorballing squad these days it seems. except for momo, who 95% of the time can't pass the ball.

players who deserve to get a mention along side these guys but rarely do:

the keepers; Reina, VDS and especially Cech singlehandedly are worth around 20 points to their team each season. no centre back is perfect, but it a lot of the time with their positioning and leadership etc. these goal keepers can make their defense successful.

full backs: Evra, Clichy, Arbeloa, Cole etc. often create the space by getting forward within which the forwards like Ronaldo excel. good full backs are essential. Ronaldo wouldn't have the time he needs on the ball if Neveille or Evra didn't overlap. ability to get by defenders is a great skill but i typically value the fullbacks decision making when it comes to their runs forward as more valuable. the difference between a Heinze (crap going forward and poor deicions making it seems), a Cicinho (great going forward but hardly able to defend) and an Evra, Arbeloa (seems to be getting everything right for the past while)

to conlude: a lot of the criticism these high profile players get is valid, Broadcasters like SKy etc. elevate them to positions they shouldn't really be holding ordinarily... but that's life i guess...