old bands - you've made your money now go away

leninbenjamin

most energetic and best gig i've been at was one Buddy Guy playing... at age 65??ish

unfuppin real he was, he'd blow most young bands out of the water in sheer energy alone.

so that's just my useless contribution as to why the OP needs to get out more. maybe you're just going to the wrong old bands mate?

keefg

validreasoning! wrote: »

You're really banging on the age thing, not to mention showing your ignorance. Walking Into Clarkesdale was a bad example too. It didn't do great over this side of the pond I admit, but over the US it didn't do too bad, entered on the billboard charts at #8 and Most High won a grammy. Not bad for a crap album by two British hasbeens. QUOTE]


validreasoning, I am on your side in this....erm, discussion (fight), so don't flame me. Old Codger bands = Good Live Shows.

However, you are not helping the cause by saying Sirs Robert & James did well in the US. Unfortunately, Americans are not renound for their good taste. As for grammys, don't get me started :mad:. You know how many of those things get handed out to Rap & R&B acts every year? Does that make them good acts - not in my book. I think Puff Daddy/Diddy/Doddy/Dozy got a grammy last year for a fart he did that a record exec overheard. That's how valued Grammy's are.

Mr Flouride,

Considering how much music is illegally downloaded from the net, our aging heros need some form of income and gigging brings in much needed cash (you never know when that hip will give way). Like someone said, it's not like the Rolling Stones/Police/Led Zep and whats left of The Who playing to 80k people in Croke Park is taking up valuable circuit space for some Indy/Uni group who would only play to a thousand people if they're lucky.

Would you put so much time & passion into giving out at your dad for dancing at a wedding & making a bit of an eejit out of himself? Surely you would just sit back, have a little laugh at the show and shake your head in a knowing manner?

So come on, lighten up and let the Old Git's have their fun.






Just out of interest, the Red Hot Chilli Peppers are still going strong, knocking out albums & playing gigs and festivals that are packed with those young unwashed student types I have read about in the paper. They have been together for over 25 years and Anthony Kiedis is 44 :eek:, I saw them in the UK when I was 19 & let me tell you...that wasn't yesterday . Do you put them in the same "past it" basket?

klaus flouride

Mr Flouride,

Considering how much music is illegally downloaded from the net, our aging heros need some form of income and gigging brings in much needed cash (you never know when that hip will give way). Like someone said, it's not like the Rolling Stones/Police/Led Zep and whats left of The Who playing to 80k people in Croke Park is taking up valuable circuit space for some Indy/Uni group who would only play to a thousand people if they're lucky.

Would you put so much time & passion into giving out at your dad for dancing at a wedding & making a bit of an eejit out of himself? Surely you would just sit back, have a little laugh at the show and shake your head in a knowing manner?

So come on, lighten up and let the Old Git's have their fun.

No I wouldn't give out to either of my parents if they got pissed at a wedding and danced to an old favourite (I'd probably be getting pissed and dancing myself too much to notice). But just leave it to the older generation then; Things have changed since the 60s / 70s - we now know that Jimmy page isn't the best guitarist the world has ever seen, nowadays some of their sexist lyrics are a bit embarrassing (not to mention all that crap about goblins and hobbits), fair enough if older people want to relive they're youth - most of them have been working their arses off their whole lives, so they deserve a bit of light entertainment. But lets be clear here, thats all it is- light entertainment / rock cabaret. Theres nothing groundbreaking or significant about these reformations; its just a money-spinner.

If you had, lets say / hypothetically speaking etc., 3 young bands who were absolutely brilliant (great musicians, solid songs, exciting live show etc.) and you believed in them so much you went and organised a showcase gig for them in a medium-sized venue- and you were successful in doing so. Now supposing some oldie band decides to get back together- they've pretty much lost it, none of the members get on with each other and basically they're not what they used to be. It just so happens that their reformation gig is on in the same city and same date as your showcase gig; who are people going to go and see? We all know the answer, they're going to go and see the oldie band- not because their good, original or even worth seeing, it will be because of all the hype surrounding it and the fact that many of the younger fans feel they have to go and see these bands because they're 'classic bands'. The older rock fans should be saying to the younger fans 'listen don't bother with these oldie gigs, go and find out who the great modern-day bands are, there will always be Led Zep. fans- don't worry about them they can't change how music is going (in fact they want it to go backwards), but you can cos you have the energy and optimism to do so and only by seeing bands who dare to do something original will you be able to develop your own sound and style'.

(I know that last bit sounded a bit ''You have the power / carry the flame'', but i'm sure some of you must see my point)

Look at how these reform. gigs are advertised, you don't see promoters saying ''they've just released a great album and they put on a good show''; they say things like ''see them before they die''- thats how bad its gotten.

klaus flouride

leninbenjamin wrote: »

most energetic and best gig i've been at was one Buddy Guy playing... at age 65??ish

unfuppin real he was,

I'm sure he was- he needs to be, he's not a very well-known act so he has to put on a good gig. Its not the same with the Led Zeps and The whos of this world- people will go see them regardless of how good they sound.

keefg

klaus flouride wrote: »

Your Point
Theres nothing groundbreaking or significant about these reformations; its just a money-spinner.


My Reply
Of course it is. Remember the term Showbusiness? If you think any of these newer bands are getting into it "Just so people can hear our music maaan", then you are very much mistaken, it's all about cash & wimmin!!!

Your Point
It just so happens that their reformation gig is on in the same city and same date as your showcase gig.


My Reply
Old farts have as much right to gig as anyone else. Are you suggesting that when a band like The Police or Led Zep plan their world tours they should take into account every other gig in every city they are playing? These tours normally come to this (or any country) once a year, if that, and dates are announced months in advance. It is much easier for a "smaller/newer" band to reschedule if their gig collides with a large sell out global tour. Especially for an Irish band who does a gig every weekend or every few months.

If I were in an up & coming, hottest new band on the block and my manager booked a gig an the same night that The Police were playing Croker, I would punch him in the face and sack him for being a moron - then I would try to get tix for The Police.

Your Point
younger fans feel they have to go and see these bands because they're 'classic bands'.


My Reply
That is a matter of free choice and taste - no one is forced to go to a gig.

Your Point
The older rock fans should be saying to the younger fans 'listen don't bother with these oldie gigs, go and find out who the great modern-day bands are, there will always be Led Zep. fans- don't worry about them they can't change how music is going (in fact they want it to go backwards), but you can cos you have the energy and optimism to do so and only by seeing bands who dare to do something original will you be able to develop your own sound and style'.



My Reply
Yeah, that'll work. Us old rockers are more than likely to be told to "Feck off and mind yer own business, you old barstuard". I would be happy if less unwashed student types went to these "classic" gigs and left more tickets available for me and my pipe smoking, cardigan wearing friends.


Your Point
Look at how these reform. gigs are advertised, you don't see promoters saying ''they've just released a great album and they put on a good show''; they say things like ''see them before they die''- thats how bad its gotten.


My Reply
If only the promoters used the same tactics for Nirvana - Jimi Hendrix - Jim Morrison - Alice in Chains etc. etc. Then more of the public and music lovers would have seen more great talent & live gigs before it was too late.

Death isn't the exclusive hobby of old codgers.

klaus flouride

My Reply
Of course it is. Remember the term Showbusiness? If you think any of these newer bands are getting into it "Just so people can hear our music maaan", then you are very much mistaken, it's all about cash & wimmin!!!

No it isn't all about cash and wimmin, believe me there are easier ways to make cash and get laid besides being in the music business - and within the music business there are easier ways of making cash and gettin laid than being in a rock band. There is such a thing as serious artists / musicians, but the minute they make a bit of money they get called sell-outs, and the minute they get a bit of sex they're accused of being extravagant rock stars. Thats not to say there aren't bands who do this- but its unfair to accuse them all of this. What you're saying gives every band an excuse to be crap.

My Reply
Old farts have as much right to gig as anyone else. Are you suggesting that when a band like The Police or Led Zep plan their world tours they should take into account every other gig in every city they are playing? These tours normally come to this (or any country) once a year, if that, and dates are announced months in advance. It is much easier for a "smaller/newer" band to reschedule if their gig collides with a large sell out global tour. Especially for an Irish band who does a gig every weekend or every few months.

If I were in an up & coming, hottest new band on the block and my manager booked a gig an the same night that The Police were playing Croker, I would punch him in the face and sack him for being a moron - then I would try to get tix for The Police.

No, thats not what I'm saying at all- My point was that the young bands who work hard and put on a good show will be ignored in favour of sub-standard oldie bands who don't care.

My Reply
That is a matter of free choice and taste - no one is forced to go to a gig.

But everyone bases their choices and tastes upon information provided to them- often by Magazine critics who lick oldie bands' arses so they can get a good interview - or - from people who want to seem cool and informed by saying they really enjoyed Roger Daltrey wheeze his way through 'My Generation'.

My Reply
Yeah, that'll work. Us old rockers are more than likely to be told to "Feck off and mind yer own business, you old barstuard". I would be happy if less unwashed student types went to these "classic" gigs and left more tickets available for me and my pipe smoking, cardigan wearing friends.

I would also be happy if less people bought tickets to these gigs.

My Reply
If only the promoters used the same tactics for Nirvana - Jimi Hendrix - Jim Morrison - Alice in Chains etc. etc. Then more of the public and music lovers would have seen more great talent & live gigs before it was too late.

Death isn't the exclusive hobby of old codgers.

But many of those artists were at or near their peak when they died; they didn't bugger off to a countryside mansion and spend 20 years getting f**ked up on drugs only to announce their return.

keefg

Klaus,

I can see your opinions are not going to be changed on this, I and others have given valid reason why we like & want these "classic" acts to continue to tour.

A good band is a good band, doesn't matter if they're 18 or 80. If you like a band and you have the chance to see them live then I think that is fantastic.

I shall leave you alone (and you pretty much are alone) to continue your crusade and bid you a good day.

klaus flouride

keefg wrote: »

Klaus,

I can see your opinions are not going to be changed on this, I and others have given valid reason why we like & want these "classic" acts to continue to tour.

- Because you have to have your musical tastes chosen for you by 'best of...' lists? Because the only good guitar music you are aware of comes from the 60s / 70s? Because you've never been to a real gig in your entire life?

A good band is a good band, doesn't matter if they're 18 or 80. If you like a band and you have the chance to see them live then I think that is fantastic.

- A good band evolves and changes whilst still producing good material.

I shall leave you alone (and you pretty much are alone) to continue your crusade and bid you a good day.

- No, there are others, but trying to explain the reasons as to why reforms. are a pile of sh1te is difficult and lenghty - not everyone is willing to do so.

Heres My favourite Alan Partridge quote:

"Hey, don't talk to me about rock 'n' roll - I queued 4 hours to get a ticket for Wings!''

It could be attributed to many of the contributors to this discussion.

grumpytrousers

Two things - what's your take on something like this then...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_University_Tour

Number 2, Klaus, is your 'direct quote' button not working?

klaus flouride

Thats pretty cool - i didn't know that. It doesn't make me want to Wings anymore than I did (I've heard quite a bit of their stuff, my parents like them). In fairness, I think Coogan's (i.e. Steve Coogan the comedian who plays partridge) humour was based on the fact that wings aren't exactly a heavy rocking band. But that University tour thing is interesting; I wonder why Lennon didn't want to do it - sounds like the kind of thing that would have been right up his street (but probably not Yoko's).

The direct quote button - No, its not working. It was before but isn't now- also, when I'm writing a thread I'm not able to underline/Italic/Bold font anything. Its annoying- I'll arse about with it some more and see what I can do.

nij

You talk about music as if it's some kind of tangible object that can be 'pushed forward' or back, and should evolve and change. You also speak of music that is 'groundbreaking'.

Music is music. It's there for entertainment, and it's either good and entertaining, or it isn't.

I had to laugh when you said Snoop Dogg is 'past his best'. What exactly was he doing that was so difficult or 'groundbreaking'? Standing on stage like every other rapper saying "uh huh" and "yeah..."....?

On the one hand you curse old bands for reforming and taking the money/attention of people who should be watching 'new' acts, and on the other hand you're stating that people past a certain age cannot perform to the required standard of a live show.

On the first issue, people have asked you over and over again to name a single 'new' act that deserves our attention but has had its platform stolen. On the second issue, even you were forced to admit that age has little to do with putting on a great show.

So, what's your real problem here? If it isn't plain ageism then surely it's misplaced bitterness. You probably started a band that didn't make it past a few small gigs, and rather than consider the possibility that you might not have been up to scratch, or that you might have needed more work, you choose to find someone ELSE to blame.

Show business is tough, and most people who try it won't make it, regardless of what classic act is touring at the time. The truth is that very little these days makes your ears prick up and take notice, and that's (IMHO) because music is getting steadily worse. You may see the 'modern' sound as 'evolution', but most others just yawn. How many more indie guys with mediocre skills do we have to suffer? How many more rappers? How many more RnB whispering double-trackers? How many more white-noise 'metal' bands?

Show us where the quality is.

klaus flouride

nij wrote: »

I had to laugh when you said Snoop Dogg is 'past his best'. What exactly was he doing that was so difficult or 'groundbreaking'? Standing on stage like every other rapper saying "uh huh" and "yeah..."....?

So you don''t like rap then. But look at it this way; who else talks about the issues of discrimination and poverty in America?

On the one hand you curse old bands for reforming and taking the money/attention of people who should be watching 'new' acts, and on the other hand you're stating that people past a certain age cannot perform to the required standard of a live show.

Its not that they can't perform - its that they don't need to perform, they will sell out stadiums upon their name alone, regardless of how they actually sound.

On the first issue, people have asked you over and over again to name a single 'new' act that deserves our attention but has had its platform stolen. On the second issue, even you were forced to admit that age has little to do with putting on a great show.

It depends, old-age has had a terrible effect upon some musicians/artists, others are o. k.- but that has no effect on how many tickets they sell.

So, what's your real problem here? If it isn't plain ageism then surely it's misplaced bitterness. You probably started a band that didn't make it past a few small gigs,

Everyone has, its part of the game.

Show business is tough, and most people who try it won't make it, regardless of what classic act is touring at the time. The truth is that very little these days makes your ears prick up and take notice, and that's (IMHO) because music is getting steadily worse. You may see the 'modern' sound as 'evolution', but most others just yawn. How many more indie guys with mediocre skills do we have to suffer? How many more rappers? How many more RnB whispering double-trackers? How many more white-noise 'metal' bands?

Show us where the quality is.

Any band I mention will just be slagged off and people will say they're crap (i tried it already) cos they just wanna support their own arguments. However, even if there was a modern day band as good as any oldie group they would be ignored because they don't have a brand name like 'Led Zeppelin'.

Thats all it is, a brand name, their music is well past them.

nij

There have been numerous examples posted here of 'classic' bands (big names) playing in recent years, and playing fantastic shows.

You think rappers rap about discrimination and poverty? Maybe the minority, but there are many more artists outside of rap with meaningful lyrics. Let's not get off track here though.

Please, learn how to use the quote tags, because your posts are confusing. Your last one makes is appear as if I'm speaking your words.

Using square brackets [ ] just surround the quote with (QUOTE) (/QUOTE)

Now I don't think anyone here is going to slag off any band you mention just to score points. Quality is quality, and I just wish you could give a few examples of up and coming bands who are not getting the attention they deserve because of oldie reformations.