Dublin Target Sports Club

sidneyreilly

The Chairman wrote:

By putting your reply in we now know who both of you are and how did the competition down in hilltop over the weekend go lads.

And what precisley has the competition in Hilltop got to do with this?

Sikamick

To BOBTHESHOOTER,

Just finished sending out 92 invitations for Christmas get-together, if your a member you will have received it, will you be there.I wouldn't like to leave you out.

IF not a member just ignore this post.

Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club.
Aka SIKAMICK

Stalker01

sidneyreilly wrote:

And what precisley has the competition in Hilltop got to do with this?

You seem to be a bit slow read into the tex the man knows who bobtheshooter is and asked how did the shoot go that was on in hilltop.

What has any of this got to do with you, mind your own business.

Sparks

What has any of this got to do with you, mind your own
business.

There's no need to be uncivil in order to either register or deal with a complaint. So that was the last uncivil comment in this thread. Read your Charter. Next offender will find their posts deleted, and if it gets to be too much work, they'll find themselves given a week to cool off.

sidneyreilly

Stalker01 wrote:

You seem to be a bit slow read into the tex the man knows who bobtheshooter is and asked how did the shoot go that was on in hilltop.

What has any of this got to do with you, mind your own business.

Indeed? Then what business is it of you or the other poster to bring the name of another club into this debate? Also when I know another poster on this sight I dont feel the need to point it out in a roundabout manner, most that post here know who many of the others are, we just respect their preference not to be identified.

Chopperdog 2

sidneyreilly wrote:

Indeed? Then what business is it of you or the other poster to bring the name of another club into this debate? Also when I know another poster on this sight I dont feel the need to point it out in a roundabout manner, most that post here know who many of the others are, we just respect their preference not to be identified.

`

+1 with Sid.

Stalker, your rudeness does you no favours on such a tight knit forum such as this is.

You really seemed to have missed the point totally. How can you tell someone to mind their own business when by posting your opinions on a public forum, you made it public business.

Personally, I find this whole slagging match very degrading and in my humble opinion I think the parties concerned should not be airing their dirty linen in public.

If the parties involved claim to know the other parties identity, why not sort the issues in a more dignified and private matter.

Following this discussion/slagging match is like passing a car crash, everyone winces at what they might see yet still cant avoid watching.

Ned Muldhoon

I've just completed reading this thread and was wondering, as an unbiased party, could someone clear up a few points:

1. Why did DTSC loose their authorisation in the first place and what was the primary cause (I only ask as I think this could be very pertinent to my own club).

2. Is this the same scenario for Mallow?

3. To my knowledge there were 4 ex members of DTSC shooting over the weekend at hilltop. Can you tell me who of these are referred to in Mr. Doyles' statement? Two of these members are also members of my own club.

Regards,

Ned

Bananaman

I have been reading this thread with interest and a little dismay.
It no longer seems to be a discussion but somewhere for people to vent their anger at each other - not a healthy situation, in my view, nor a good image.

As for the "mind your own business" comment. I would like to point out that this is a public forum - I know who a few people are but in general I dunno who you guys are.

I happen to agree with Sidneys earlier comments but this is also an extension of earlier comments made with regard to this thread polluting a thread on the Mallow situation.

I was at the competition in Hilltop at the weekend. It went very well, there was a large turnout, everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. I was page one of the results - glass half full.
I cannot, in any way whatsoever, see what that can have to do with the internal politics of DTSC.

I am not a member of DTSC, although a I know a few - I have never been to the range - so will not comment on the Club it's members or committee.

At the end of the day people - we need to be civil to each other - I understand how some people may have a personal grievance with another or a group of others but in a public forum such as this I think it is enough to state that grievance and hopefully a resolution.

From reading back though this that seems to have happened. The grievance was stated, an EGM was offered including a second from the Club secretary. I, personally dunno what else you can hope to get here.

Anyway - my tuppence worth.

I'll now stand back and get the fire blanket out of the packet.

B'Man

Rosahane

I enquired about joining DTSC about two years ago and basically got the cold shoulder from a couple of the members:mad:

I subsequently visited Hilltop where I was made very welcome - so I joined up there - it's brilliant

Judging by some of the comments and attitude of what I assume are DTSC members like Stalker01 I think I was lucky :eek:

Stalker01

Rosahane wrote:

I enquired about joining DTSC about two years ago and basically got the cold shoulder from a couple of the members:mad:

I subsequently visited Hilltop where I was made very welcome - so I joined up there - it's brilliant

Judging by some of the comments and attitude of what I assume are DTSC members like Stalker01 I think I was lucky :eek:

Not a member of DTSC and sorry if I came across been smart but people should read the post before replying thats the point I put across, but DTSc is run by club members so much friendlyer people now running it.

Sorry Again.

Sikamick

Stalker01 wrote:

Not a member of DTSC and sorry if I came across been smart but people should read the post before replying thats the point I put across, but DTSc is run by club members so much friendlyer people now running it.

Sorry Again.

Stalker01 wrote:

Not a member of DTSC and sorry if I came across been smart but people should read the post before replying thats the point I put across, but DTSc is run by club members so much friendlyer people now running it.

Sorry Again.

Staker01,


Reply to Stalker 01

I can't stop you using Boards. But if it is seen that you are a belligerent type of person you will find it hard to get into any club.

Re our club CHAIRMAN statement re Hill Top, I think he was making a statement to BOBTHESHOOTER and 223Hornady.

Re Hilltop I personally know the people that run it, they are very nice people, and they do run a exceptionally good operation.

I would prefer if any of the DTSC Members come in on this discussion that they stick to the point.

To the lady that attended DTSC a couple of years all I can say I apologies for any of our members that may have upset you. Unfortunately it is hard for any club to be able to control peoples attitude to one other.


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club.
Aka SIKAMICK

BOBTHESHOOTER

Sikamick wrote:

Staker01,


Re our club secretary statement re Hill Top, I think he was making a statement to BOBTHESHOOTER and 223Hornady.

Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club.
Aka SIKAMICK

So the Secretary is the Chairman or is the Chairman the secretary or are they the same people, do you guys know who you really are , or are you writing each others posts, probably!

In any case I would suggest leaving Hilltop out of it, it has nothing to do with the orignal post which simply drew comparisons to the situation in Mallow with the situation that happened in Brittas earlier in the year.

One thing that I will make very clear, in general the members of DTSC whom I know are in the majority fine people and I am delighted to be assoicated with them, this issue I have is with the power base in the committee, I suggested the AGM as a mechanism for change, it can and will wait.

In any case the loss of the authorisation in April was as a direct result of the complaint made to the Gardai by the then and present secretary, I have yet to hear any denial of this. The point being made was that the Secretary is all for the sport but risked the future of the club when he made the complaint to the Gardai. How can the present committee be comfortable with this!

dresden8

Folks

This is very public airing of dirty laundry. I don't know the full story and I don't think a "He said" no "He said" arguement is going to resolve anything.
I think this thread should be locked and any problems sorted out within the club. The committee members may have committed a tactical error by being dragged into a discussion on the internet, but that's life, everybody wants to win, especially if they feel they've been aggrieved.

Everybody should butt out and let DTSC sort out their own problems.

Just my opinion.

223 Hornady

Sparks wrote:

Alright lads (and it's 223 and our new Frederick that I'm looking at), calm down. The thread's close enough to the wind as it is.

Sparks , for some unknown reason I have been pulled into this crap about DTSC , I want to make it clear that I have no interest in DTSC or its committee or members , once again I state that I only suggested to the moderators here , that this debate about DTSC should not have taken over the Mallow thread , personally I have more interest in Mallow . Can I suggest that you look at the posts again , and specifically read mine . All I did was reply to an unfounded accusation made about me , by someone that clearly thinks they know me, but doesn't . Now you jump in and tell me to calm down ? Why ? I dont see that I need to calm down , I havent lost it yet all I did was stand up for myself , where is the problem there ? I think you need to look at La Chakal , Sikomick , Stalker 1 and Bob the shooter they seem to be the ones with the problem , so why not give them a week off.

Sikamick

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

So the Secretary is the Chairman or is the Chairman the secretary or are they the same people, do you guys know who you really are , or are you writing each others posts, probably!

In any case I would suggest leaving Hilltop out of it, it has nothing to do with the orignal post which simply drew comparisons to the situation in Mallow with the situation that happened in Brittas earlier in the year.

One thing that I will make very clear, in general the members of DTSC whom I know are in the majority fine people and I am delighted to be assoicated with them, this issue I have is with the power base in the committee, I suggested the AGM as a mechanism for change, it can and will wait.

In any case the loss of the authorisation in April was as a direct result of the complaint made to the Gardai by the then and present secretary, I have yet to hear any denial of this. The point being made was that the Secretary is all for the sport but risked the future of the club when he made the complaint to the Gardai. How can the present committee be comfortable with this!

REPLY TO BOBTHESHOOTER

My apologies I am very tired at the moment, not long in from the range we are putting in the rifle range, as you would know if your a member.

The Secretary is myself ( Michael O'Connor) the Chairman is (Michael Doyle) who is with me at the moment, he is a life long friend. If you are a member you have my home number give us a call and Mick Doyle will speak to you and by the way Alan Dawson is here, you must know Alan he is the Club Treasurer he is here on club business,would you like to talk to him.

Re denial read my previous post, Just for the record I did not make a complaint to the Garda. The investigation was allready started when I got called to go to Tallaght Garda Station, there are seven club members who witnessed that I got that Call.

Re the committees feelings or that of the members, they elected me this year at the AGM after all the hassle was over. And also it is your prerogative to come to any of the meetings or wait till the AGM.

Michael OConnor

Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club

Aka SIKAMICK

BOBTHESHOOTER

Sikamick wrote:

REPLY TO BOBTHESHOOTER

Re denial read my previous post, Just for the record I did not make a complaint to the Garda. The investigation was allready started when I got called to go to Tallaght Garda Station, there are seven club members who witnessed that I got that Call.

Michael OConnor

Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club

Aka SIKAMICK

You got the call or made the call? I heard that you made the complaint on the Sunday PM and the range authorisation was withdrawn on the Monday probably as a result of your statement, clearly from your response you were in communication with the Gardai on the issue and the seven club members witnessed the call as per your post, I did also hear that you were not asked to attend the station in Tallaght for several weeks after the range was closed! So what exactly was your statement to the Gardai if you did not make a complaint!

Sparks

dresden8 wrote:

Folks
This is very public airing of dirty laundry. I don't know the full story and I don't think a "He said" no "He said" arguement is going to resolve anything.
I think this thread should be locked and any problems sorted out within the club. The committee members may have committed a tactical error by being dragged into a discussion on the internet, but that's life, everybody wants to win, especially if they feel they've been aggrieved.
Everybody should butt out and let DTSC sort out their own problems.
Just my opinion.

I've thought that once or twice myself. Thing is, it's fundamentally wrong. If something's wrong, say it out and post your facts and that's the end of it. If something isn't wrong, saying it out and not having facts to post will just be seen as dross and mud-slinging. And painful a process as it is, if we have to drag the target shooting community out of the closed-room old boys club mindset kicking and screaming into a more professionally run sport mindset, well, that's what we have to do. Or else our sport will die the slow death that all old men's hobbies suffer.

223 Hornady wrote:

you jump in and tell me to calm down ? Why ?

It was the "I dont know who you are and honestly dont give a s***" and the Pal stuff. But the comment wasn't aimed solely at you 223, but at everyone in the thread who were getting decidely uncivil in tone in a thread that was already fairly close to the wind.

Sparks

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

You got the call or made the call? I heard that you made the complaint on the Sunday PM and the range authorisation was withdrawn on the Monday probably as a result of your statement, clearly from your response you were in communication with the Gardai on the issue and the seven club members witnessed the call as per your post, I did also hear that you were not asked to attend the station in Tallaght for several weeks after the range was closed! So what exactly was your statement to the Gardai if you did not make a complaint!

Right, I'm calling bull**** on this one bob, just from reading the posts here. Sicamick has witnesses to having taken the call, he's stated for the record he didn't originate the complaint, he's clearly indicated where the complaint originated from if you'd take the time to read the posts, and all you're doing is slinging muck to see if any will stick. Shut up or post your facts; or go to the committee meeting as invited, or call an EGM as invited. But right now, you're just trying to get the forum in trouble by repeatedly libelling someone from behind the cover of anonymity the board affords you at its expense. I'm not of a mind to afford you that opportunity without some sort of evidence from you.

223 Hornady

Sparks wrote:

It was the "I dont know who you are and honestly dont give a s***" and the Pal stuff. But the comment wasn't aimed solely at you 223, but at everyone in the thread who were getting decidely uncivil in tone in a thread that was already fairly close to the wind.

OK that being the case why didnt you specifically mention them? I hope you can see why I'm pi**ed off , I only drew your attention to the fact that this whole thing had nothing to do with the Mallow situation and should be split " as per the charter " and now I get dragged into it , then you specifically name me as someone that is being warned ?

Rosahane

[deleted post's content edited out -sparks]

Moderator - I notice that a number of (usually negative or inproper comments) have a very low post count which raises the possibility that they created a new alias specificially for this thread

I'm sure that IP address information is held and could be clashed against the userbase:cool:

Ned Muldhoon

A few points I think can be clarified easily:

1. The land and range owner is now the range manager and range authorisation controller. (as per club statement in the August issue of the Irish shooters digest). - one to you Bob!

2. Any complaint made by a member of the public to An Garda Siochana regarding range usage will be logged and details should be available under the Freedom Of information act (so long as the investigation is complete or unfounded). So, I suggest interested parties request this information from an impartial source (Garda). This should but an end to this!

3. We should avoid unfounded character attacks as this will only play into the hands of the anti shooting lobby (division amounst our ranks will be their greatest asset). If someone is found to bring the sport into disrepute, they should be removed from whatever club / body office they hold.

I run and own a shooting range (not available in public domain yet) and have so far spent in excess of 70K in construction. I have an interest in the mechanisms of running a club either as a limited company with no members involved in running the club, or electing a range / club committee with executive control of the club. Lads- can you give me your thoughts on this?

Sikamick

Rosahane wrote:

Moderator - I notice that a number of (usually negative or inproper comments) have a very low post count which raises the possibility that they created a new alias specificially for this thread

I'm sure that IP address information is held and could be clashed against the userbase:cool:

Re BOBTHESHOOTER'S COMMENTS ABOUT ME.
This is interesting, I think my solicitor would like to know this. Would a court order allow me get the ID OF BOBTHESHOOTER.

PS. To the Mod Sparks I have been given legal advice not to communicate any further on this matter.

Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club.
Aka SIKAMICK

Sparks

Rosa, we brought that up before. I can cross-check IP addresses, but if a club PC is being used, you can't tell the difference, and there's the possibility that if two people use the same ISP at different times, the ISP can reuse that IP address. Generally we go by content of posts, but for this thread, I'm just deleting posts that aren't civil and if someone keeps posting uncivil comments and starts to tire me out, I'll just ban them.


Ned, the mechanism you're thinking of would probably be a public company limited by guarantee with no share capital. The NTSA is set up in this fashion. I can't think of too many clubs set up in this way - MNSCI would be the most obvious example, and they'd happily answer your questions, they're a very friendly lot. Personally I'd recommend it. Nothing like having a third party body of law and enforcement to ensure that noone feels hard done by and to ensure that noone actually is hard done by.

Sparks

Sikamick wrote:

Re BOBTHESHOOTER'S COMMENTS ABOUT ME.
This is interesting, I am think my solicitor would like to know this. Would a court order allow me get the ID OF BOBTHESHOOTER.

Possibly, but you'd have to ask the admins and there's no guarantee that such information is even determinable, much less available to the admins.

rrpc

Sparks wrote:

Possibly, but you'd have to ask the admins and there's no guarantee that such information is even determinable, much less available to the admins.

Sorry to butt in here but this is getting perilously close to involving boards.ie in litigation whether as a third party or not.

Sparks, I'd seriously reccommend locking this thread to prevent any further escalation.

Sparks

Locking the thread won't prevent escalation rrpc or forestall litigation (and denying right of reply to anyone has a habit of triggering litigation), and anyway, I think the thread has already run it's course. There'll be some sort of update after the next AGM no doubt and that'll be the end of it then.

Ned Muldhoon

There is no legal precedent pertaining to the Common Law and the Defamation Act 1961 in relation to bulletin boards. Anything printed here cannot (as far as I read it) be used to initiate court procedings.

Get this issue with DTSC out into the open as this will have far reaching repercussions for all involved in this sport. A degree of common courtesy is all that is required to resolve this.

Sparks

Ned, I agree with your latter paragraph, but your former paragraph is debatable. Note the MCD sticky on the forum - in particular the requirement not to discuss it further, which comes from the Admins.

Ned Muldhoon

Sparks, I would agree but I cannot see any elements of litigation in this thread! I think talk of "taking advice from solicitors" etc by contributors to this thread only serves to compound the view that there are questions to answer from all parties.

So, In light of recent statements (non of which are attributable in a court of law - trust me on that! can we find common ground on:

The reason DTSC originally lost authorisation - no squabbling please, just a simple defined statement that can be authenticated.

deadeyedick

Your bang on the nail. We dont own the range, you cant even get look at a lease, try asking to see one and see what happins.

We need to cop on lads!! Why would volinteer to work on a range to make someone else money.

Considering Mr O'Connor started slinging the mud calling two well known people liars and ripoff merchants I'll bet me Sig he not only one talking to his solicitor.

Dick.