Dublin Target Sports Club

Stalker01

Just call a EGM get it all out then.

C U Next Tuesday,:D

Stalker01

Sparks : There seems to be alot of bitching going on and if you look people are just becoming members. I have only become a member of boards because the interest in shooting and heard there is alot on this website about it. I do feal that people that are already members are just becoming members under other names to cause more S%*t.

deadeyedick

I thought you wer'nt a member.

Not more EGM's thats what got us into this mess. 5 or 6 EGM's in as many weeks in May attended by less then a 1/4 of the members and what do we end up with, a bunch of little Hitlers.

Answer Neds ?. Then leave it to the AGM.

Sparks

No EGM's but AGM's are fine? You do realise that they have the same status don't you? And frankly, if it's that important, the timely nature of an EGM is a good thing...

Stalker, I think the same thing, but shy of handing out bans left, right and centre for not having enough posts, there's not a great deal that can be done.

Stalker01

deadeyedick wrote:

I thought you wer'nt a member.

Not more EGM's thats what got us into this mess. 5 or 6 EGM's in as many weeks in May attended by less then a 1/4 of the members and what do we end up with, a bunch of little Hitlers.

Answer Neds ?. Then leave it to the AGM.

Not a member but just look over all the post. It needs to be sorted and sorted like adults so bobtheshooter was asked to an EGM why wait for an AGM. I am just putting a point across that men are going on like little girls should not be in Shooting Clubs they should be in the Girls Guides.

Sparks

deadeyedick wrote:

Why would volinteer to work on a range to make someone else money.

Interesting point of view. So when can I and the other moderators and the admins expect our cheque from you for all the time put into this forum you're using by us?

Stalker01

Sparks wrote:

Stalker, I think the same thing, but shy of handing out bans left, right and centre for not having enough posts, there's not a great deal that can be done.

Well these people are kiding no one but themselves.

deadeyedick

Ah come now Sparks you volinteered. Anyway where would we be without you.:)

Stalker01

Look your kinding no one and you say "not more EGMs" why are you a member or are you on this site under a different name.

Ned Muldhoon

We appear to be getting off the topic again, There's a bit of subject creep in this thread!

Can we please stick to the point and avoid personal attacks!

Stalker01

Ned Muldhoon wrote:

We appear to be getting off the topic again, There's a bit of subject creep in this thread!

Can we please stick to the point and avoid personal attacks!

True ned but the point is bobtheshooter wont call an EGM and is hiding behind his computer. The problem will only be sorted when people sit down and put the points across.

Ned Muldhoon

Stalker01 - On the subject of EGM's

In 25 years of club membership (Game, Target, Hunt and Syndicate) I have only ever been to one EGM. I've looked back through this thread and can see that there have been several EGM's called in a short space of time.

I am not a member of DTSC but if I were I would question the validity of further EGM's. There still appears to be some unresolved issues.

Is there a governing body (as with the NRA in the US) that can act as a moderator in this situation?

Stalker01

Ned Muldhoon wrote:

Stalker01 - On the subject of EGM's

In 25 years of club membership (Game, Target, Hunt and Syndicate) I have only ever been to one EGM. I've looked back through this thread and can see that there have been several EGM's called in a short space of time.

I am not a member of DTSC but if I were I would question the validity of further EGM's. There still appears to be some unresolved issues.

Is there a governing body (as with the NRA in the US) that can act as a moderator in this situation?

I am not a member so I could not tell you but if you look back Mr Michael O Connor asked bobtheshooter to an EGM and not wait till next year for the AGM to bring is points across that he was unhappy about but bobtheshooter keeps pushing it off saying he will wait till next year.

I know if I had a problem id get it sorted as soon aa possible and would not be afraid to come out and say it.

Ned Muldhoon

Stalker01 - Fair point, but I do not think an EGM is the appropriate forum for this as it appears to be a problem with acting committee officers.

Assuming that DTSC operates as a non profit organisation ( as with NARGC gun clubs), all matters relating to the operation of this club should be transparent to members. I would advise both parties involved to provide substantiating documentation to an artribrator in order to determine the course of events and responsible parties. This, in my opinion, is the only course of action available in order to resolve this issue to satisfaction of the members (who are 'The Club').

Again, I am not a member, but these issues do effect other clubs. Members of DTSC or Bobtheshooter et al, might have applied for membership of our own club and I cannot look at these with an unbiased opinion now. Am I in for the same trouble!

Sparks

Ned,
If you can't trust an EGM, you can't trust an AGM. There's simply no way round that point. And if you can't trust an AGM, then you are firmly in the land of "If you don't like it, leave". (Assuming that this is a private club and not a limited company we're talking about, where you'd have more options).

As to:

Members of DTSC or Bobtheshooter et al, might have applied for membership of our own club and I cannot look at these with an unbiased opinion now.

If you feel this is the case, you are morally obligated to recuse yourself from such consideration. No way round that one either, and the problem is your responsibility alone - either you get a case where someone comes in from another club with such a cloud over them and you ignore completely all past events; or you inquire into proceedings in the prior club in a fair manner. This is why holding things like EGMs and AGMs and having documented procedures and fair play and generally doing things right isn't just good for your club; but also for your members and other clubs and the sport in general - it prevents membership veto by rumour and all the negative aspects of same, regardless of whether it was the old club or the prospective member who was at fault.

Ned Muldhoon

Sparks - completely agree, but in this case there is no transparency - EGM's Or AGM's. There either is a case to answer or not. Mr. O'Connor and BobTheShooter obviously have a grievance, both parties should be willing to disclose all of the facts, not just hearsay and innuendo.

There is a collective document of statements lying in a Garda station that is available for public inspection (assuming there is no investigation pending). Any mentioned party can access these documents and make them public. This is one of your rights under the FOI act 1997. Deferral of access does not apply in this case.

Surely, this would clear up the "who done what" argument and allow all members visibility on this subject. Then, either an EGM could be called with all interested parties present.

Just my opinion though! (club constitution should also have this process defined)

Sparks

Ned, you said that the EGM process wasn't appropriate because serving committee officers were involved - I'm trying to say that if serving committee officers are involved the EGM/AGM process is the only appropriate process (for a binding resolution at any rate). The specifics of the case aren't hugely germane to this.

I do agree with the FOI request approach though. It's just that that's what you do after you've decided where (at an EGM or elsewhere) you'll present your case.

Ned Muldhoon

Sparks,

From personal experience, the EGM / AGM would be the forum for the presentation of evidence, argument and counter argument. For this reason, and to avoid further speculation and possible civil action by either party, supporting documentation and statements should be made available to members before an EGM.

I would afford this courtesy to my own club members in such an event and would expect the same in return.
I cannot, nor would I, dictate to the committee of DTSC how to run and manage their club for their members, but I would ask them, and other interested parties, to avail of all assistance available in order to bring this matter to a positive close for the members of this club.

Regards,

Ned

Stalker01

deadeyedick wrote:

Your bang on the nail. We dont own the range, you cant even get look at a lease, try asking to see one and see what happins.

We need to cop on lads!! Why would volinteer to work on a range to make someone else money.

Considering Mr O'Connor started slinging the mud calling two well known people liars and ripoff merchants I'll bet me Sig he not only one talking to his solicitor.

Dick.

Brendan the time I was there and seen you. I didn see you volinteer to work.

Life's a Bitch then you marry one.:D

yrrof

Lets face it DTSC is a better place now that the 2 former bitter members are no longer with us. I have nothing but praise for the current committee, keep up the good work.

DTSC member

Stalker01

deadeyedick wrote:

Your bang on the nail. We dont own the range, you cant even get look at a lease, try asking to see one and see what happins.

We need to cop on lads!! Why would volinteer to work on a range to make someone else money.

Considering Mr O'Connor started slinging the mud calling two well known people liars and ripoff merchants I'll bet me Sig he not only one talking to his solicitor.

Dick.

1) Most clubs dont own there own range,the last range manger didn own it either

2) Have you ever asked to see the lease.

3) I have been speaking to a member of DTSC and they tell me you did not attend the EGM/AGM and very rearly used the range.

4) Who was the volinteers making money for apart from the last range manger.

5) I also seen your new SIG and if you look over the post Mr O Connor did not start this bobtheshooter brought this up on the Mallow tread when he mentioned DTSC.

Stalker01

yrrof wrote:

Lets face it DTSC is a better place now that the 2 former bitter members are no longer with us. I have nothing but praise for the current committee, keep up the good work.

DTSC member

Well myself will be applying to join DTSC now that the club is been run by members.

le_Chacal

223 Hornady wrote:

Thats right , nothing to do with me , read it again ,

My friend was a member before the split / reorganisation of the club and he is very unhappy about the way that things happened , maybe other club members would like to see both sides of the story ? How about giving them a thread because it has nothing to do with the Mallow situation.
and
Can I suggest to the moderators , that a new thread be set up for the issues relating to DTSC and move the posts in this thread to the new one , its not fair to the Mallow lads to hijack their thread .

And yes I do have friends in many clubs around the country , including Mallow. I dont know who you think I am, Pal , but I bet you are wrong , oh , and by the way, 223 ammo is cheap enough that I dont need to reload as you inferred .

223horndy sorry dog(pal) is on his:cool: holiers:cool: I let him see your post when he gets back.

Sparks

Posting this on request because the original writer is having browser issues. As a disclaimer (which I'm giving since I'm a mod in the forum and I don't want people to think I'm taking sides), I'm not a member of DTSC, never have been and don't have any plans to be in the near future because I'm too involved in WTSC, I've never even been to their range and haven't ever met the people involved there.

Michael Doyle Chairman Dublin target sports club here.

This is the final reply in relation to Dublin target sports club until our committee meeting next week.

If you are a member you should disclose your name on boards or on the range to me or any committee member this Saturday and then come along to the meeting and I will show you the lease and any and all paper work you wish to see including financial records, these are available to all members.

As a matter of interest did you attend the EGM or the last AGM where the committee of 16 people where elected by all people attending. If you did attend any of the said meetings why did you not voice your feelings then because you will be well aware why our authorization was withdrawn. It should also be noted by all people viewing boards that the authorization was returned to the club and not to the previous range manager.

Re reference to landowner he is a member and was elected to the position of range manager at the AGM by all people attending was not self appointed, the minutes on the AGM are available for you to see in relation to this. The range is not commercially run, it is a club range on lease from the landowner. It should be noted that either with the previous range manager or the current one is there any payment made to any member for helping out. All work is voluntary , I thought that members belonging to a club would understand their work is voluntary. Please note deadeyedick that no disciplinary proceedings will be taken against you for expressing an opinion.

Ned Muldhoon

Sparks,

Has this thread been terminated?
I see some comments posted earlier have been removed.

Regards.

Ned

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

There's no need to be uncivil in order to either register or deal with a complaint. So that was the last uncivil comment in this thread. Read your Charter. Next offender will find their posts deleted, and if it gets to be too much work, they'll find themselves given a week to cool off.

Ned Muldhoon wrote: »

Sparks,
Has this thread been terminated?
I see some comments posted earlier have been removed.
Regards.
Ned

The thread's not been terminated. Earlier comments have been removed, see above. Rest assured, no actual content has gone astray.

The chairman117

Previous posting
Michael Doyle Chairman Dublin target sports club.

This is the final reply in relation to Dublin target sports club until our committee meeting next week.

If you are a member you should disclose your name on boards or on the range to me or any committee member this Saturday and then come along to the meeting and I will show you the lease and any and all paper work you wish to see including financial records, these are available to all members.

As a matter of interest did you attend the EGM or the last AGM where the committee of 16 people where elected by all people attending. If you did attend any of the said meetings why did you not voice your feelings then because you will be well aware why our authorization was withdrawn. It should also be noted by all people viewing boards that the authorization was returned to the club and not to the previous range manager.

Re reference to landowner he is a member and was elected to the position of range manager at the AGM by all people attending was not self appointed, the minutes on the AGM are available for you to see in relation to this. The range is not commercially run, it is a club range on lease from the landowner. It should be noted that either with the previous range manager or the current one is there any payment made to any member for helping out. All work is voluntary , I thought that members belonging to a club would understand their work is voluntary. Please note deadeyedick that no disciplinary proceedings will be taken against you for expressing an opinion.



Michael Doyle : Chairman.
Follow up to DTSC club meeting

Meeting Held on Monday the 22nd October

Agenda

1 ----Private

2 ----Private

3 ----Private

4 Re comments on Boards.ie

5 ----Private

6 AOB --- Private


In attendance 14 of 18 man committee.

In relation to agenda item 4 , the chairman asked if the committee wanted to have a discussion about the comments mentioned on boards.ie.

The committee stated that they aware of what was going on and ASKED THAT IT BE PUT OFF UNTILL A LATER DATE/MEETING AS THE COMMITTEE / CLUB HAD MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

It should be noted that the committee gave a mandate to the Secretary at a previous meeting on 11th September to contact the SSAI to raise the question of DK's recommendation to the DOJ and Garda that he would be the person to certify people for reloading when it comes in, as he was
a qualified instructor in same.????????

All club files are available to the SSAI IF REQUESTED.


Michael Doyle Chairman .

DJKH

The chairman117 wrote: »

Previous posting
Michael Doyle Chairman Dublin target sports club.


It should be noted that the committee gave a mandate to the Secretary at a previous meeting on 11th September to contact the SSAI to raise the question of DK's recommendation to the DOJ and Garda that he would be the person to certify people for reloading when it comes in, as he was
a qualified instructor in same.????????


Michael Doyle Chairman .

It is not difficult to see what is intended by this post. It is very clear that it is an attempt to infer some illegality in what I do, yourself and the secretary have become masters at that! For your information I am a qualified firearms instructor, in Rifle, Pistol, Metallic Reloading and I am a Chief Range Officer certified by the NRA in the USA.

The reason why I have taken the time to qualify as a certified instructor in metallic reloading is because when reloading is brought forward by statute one of the requirements will be to prove competence and what better way to do this than by taking a course as you quite rightly point out.

I am very grateful for you making the recommendation to the SSAI that I would be well placed to certify people for reloading and I hope you are clear now on my view of your post.

For your information it appears that your secretary has not contacted the SSAI to make such recommendations in writing or any other means. I would be grateful for him to fulfil his mandate ASAP and make the recommendation.

Kind Regards
Declan Keogh
NRA Certified Instructor

rrpc

Just as a matter of interest, I looked up this course. It's actually quite simple to take, and if anyone is interested in reloading it can be done in the comfort of your own home

From the NRA website:

If you are a certified NRA Instructor and are interested in becoming a Metallic Cartridge Reloading or Shotgun Shell Reloading Instructor by home validation, you need to complete the following steps:
1) Call 1-800-336-7402 to order your materials.

• Reloading Student Packet: Item #13535//Unit Cost $ 9.00+Shipping The examination, answer sheet and application form are included in the student packet.
• Metallic Cartridge Reloading Lesson Plan: Item #26010//Unit Cost $14.95+Shipping
• Shotgun Shell Reloading Lesson Plan: Item #26030//Unit Cost $14.95+Shipping

2) Study the material, take the examination, and mark your answers on the answer sheet.
You will need a score of 90% or higher on the Reloading examination to pass. 3) Mail your answer sheet, application and fee to:
NRA Training Department 11250 Waples Mill Rd. Fairfax, VA 22030
The processing and certification fees are as follows: Processing fee: Member $5.00; non-Member $10.00 Certification fee: Use the NRA Instructor/RSO Rate Calculation sheet attached to the application form to calculate your certification fee.
For the remainder of 2007 the processing and certification fees are waived. The fees will be paid by the Handloading Education Endowment.
This fee can be paid by Check, Money Order or Credit Card. DO NOT SEND CASH.

The fees aren't exorbitant, and as Declan says, if you're interested in taking up reloading you should make sure you're properly certified.

The total cost: $33.95 which is about €25 approx.

le_Chacal

DJKH wrote: »

It is not difficult to see what is intended by this post. It is very clear that it is an attempt to infer some illegality in what I do, yourself and the secretary have become masters at that! For your information I am a qualified firearms instructor, in Rifle, Pistol, Metallic Reloading and I am a Chief Range Officer certified by the NRA in the USA.

The reason why I have taken the time to qualify as a certified instructor in metallic reloading is because when reloading is brought forward by statute one of the requirements will be to prove competence and what better way to do this than by taking a course as you quite rightly point out.

I am very grateful for you making the recommendation to the SSAI that I would be well placed to certify people for reloading and I hope you are clear now on my view of your post.

For your information it appears that your secretary has not contacted the SSAI to make such recommendations in writing or any other means. I would be grateful for him to fulfil his mandate ASAP and make the recommendation.

Kind Regards
Declan Keogh
NRA Certified Instructor

is this another money making racket for you and i taught you wern't a member of the ssai.

how would you know their business!!!!!! sp"ing:cool: