Scientists trigger God in the brain

Zombrex

Apparently scientists have figured out a way to trigger the "experience of God" areas of the brain, producing on tap the spiritual feeling religious followers claim to have and associate with communication with their particular God.

http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=434D7C62-E7F2-99DF-37CC9814533B90D7

While the article is at pains to suggest that this doesn't disprove God, to me it is another nail in the coffin. The charge often levelled at atheists by theists is along the lines of "So you think I'm just making this all up". Now at least we can say "No, but this is what is happening to you, and we can trigger it any time we like"

Hivemind187

This is similar to the topic I brought up in this thread;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055145671

Definitely another nail in the coffin of deities and religion. What is very interesting though is the potential reasons for its existance. Are we predisposed (some of us) towards spiritual experiences becaue there was an advantage in it or is it simply a peculiar side effect of some other biological system?

If the former then we can make the argument that evolution created god!!! Wouldnt that raise a few hackles

Dades

Hivemind187 wrote:

If the former then we can make the argument that evolution created god!!! Wouldnt that raise a few hackles

Good luck on that promotional tour!

Hivemind187

The Atheist wrote:

Good luck on that promotional tour!

I know its been argued before from a biological stand point but i still think it would wind the creationsist/anti-science theists up something awful to be able to offer firm evidence that "god" evolved.

Wacker

I heard about this in a philosophy lecture about five years ago. It was only a theory at the time. Good luck to anyone trying to convince a theist with such evidence though.

Hivemind187

Wacker wrote:

I heard about this in a philosophy lecture about five years ago. It was only a theory at the time. Good luck to anyone trying to convince a theist with such evidence though.

Convince a theist of anything using evidence rather than rattling beads and a shaking a cockerel would be a good start.

Asiaprod

Hivemind187 wrote:

Convince a theist of anything using evidence rather than rattling beads and a shaking a cockerel would be a good start.

That is a little harsh.

Fallen Seraph

Just to play God's advocate for the moment, but what would be unreasonable about a theist responding to this argument by saying "Well, God has to communicate with us somehow; when he was intelligently designing us he just put that part of the brain in, to act as a sort of devine telephone"?

Anyway, surely the idea of a stricly defined "religious experience" is silly? I mean, I'm not doubting that what was induced in the test subjects seemed like a religious experience to them. But is there only one type of religious experience? My own intuition tells me not.

Dades

Fallen Seraph wrote:

"Well, God has to communicate with us somehow; when he was intelligently designing us he just put that part of the brain in, to act as a sort of devine telephone"?

Just like he did in David Koresh's brain?

I could never see why God had to be so cloak and dagger about the whole thing.

Fallen Seraph

The Atheist wrote:

I could never see why God had to be so cloak and dagger about the whole thing.

Truth be told, nor can I. But there are plenty of other manifestations of this kinda cloak-and-daggery that most theists don't have any problems with. imo prophets fall under the same category. But my point is that to most theists this will/should be nothing more than an interesting curio.

Crucifix

I'd really love to give it a go. I'm very curious if it's something I've experienced but not attributed to religious causes, or something I've never experienced, which is why I don't believe.
Interesting stuff!

Hivemind187

Fallen Seraph wrote:

Just to play God's advocate for the moment, but what would be unreasonable about a theist responding to this argument by saying "Well, God has to communicate with us somehow; when he was intelligently designing us he just put that part of the brain in, to act as a sort of devine telephone"?

Anyway, surely the idea of a stricly defined "religious experience" is silly? I mean, I'm not doubting that what was induced in the test subjects seemed like a religious experience to them. But is there only one type of religious experience? My own intuition tells me not.

It doesnt suggest a single religious experience, rather than certain reactions are stimulated in the brain which are in turn interpreted cognitively to mean "god" or "Buddha" or "Oneness with the universe" or "communications from the mothership". Essentially all the "spiritual" feelings are rouhgly the same and they are interpreted by a mind taught to believe certain things to be communications or encounterss with the deity or power of their choice.

As for the theists responding that this is merely evidence of "gods cell phone" its a bit of a flimsy argument since it implies God didnt think to encrypt the line from us ... once again showing a world that is not intellgiently designed but evolved (the alternative is pretty poor design, see: the wind pipe/oesophagus for more information).

It also means that the lads wearing the tin foil hats to disrupt the microwaves beamed into their heads by the government may have been on to something.

eoin5

Fallen Seraph wrote:

Just to play God's advocate for the moment, but what would be unreasonable about a theist responding to this argument by saying "Well, God has to communicate with us somehow; when he was intelligently designing us he just put that part of the brain in, to act as a sort of devine telephone"?

Yea the old one-two, generalise and dogmatise

lostexpectation

The height of this meditative trance, as they described in a 2001 paper, was associated with both a large drop in activity in a portion of the parietal lobe, which encompasses the upper back of the brain, and an increase in activity in the right prefrontal cortex, which resides behind the forehead. Because the affected part of the parietal lobe normally aids with navigation and spatial orientation, the neuroscientists surmise that its abnormal silence during meditation underlies the perceived dissolution of physical boundaries and the feeling of being at one with the universe. The prefrontal cortex, on the other hand, is charged with attention and planning, among other cognitive duties, and its recruitment at the meditation peak may reflect the fact that such contemplation often requires that a person focus intensely on a thought or object.

thats a very physical, practical and mundane (description of a) method of being one with the universe, isn't it.

really de-mistyfies it, but suggests it has practical, down to earth uses.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Fallen Seraph wrote: »

Just to play God's advocate for the moment, but what would be unreasonable about a theist responding to this argument by saying "Well, God has to communicate with us somehow; when he was intelligently designing us he just put that part of the brain in, to act as a sort of devine telephone"?

Anyway, surely the idea of a stricly defined "religious experience" is silly? I mean, I'm not doubting that what was induced in the test subjects seemed like a religious experience to them. But is there only one type of religious experience? My own intuition tells me not.

Heh, was just coming here to make a similar point. Could see theists seeing this as evidence for God.

lookinforpicnic

Wacker wrote: »

I heard about this in a philosophy lecture about five years ago. It was only a theory at the time. Good luck to anyone trying to convince a theist with such evidence though.

It still is a theory by the way and a sketchy one.

Evidence for religious experiences due to the happenings in the brain... wow........!!!
Did someone forgot to tell a thiest that there is mountain of evidence (and zero to contrary) that all varieties of experience are ultimately due to the workings of the brain (oh i forgot they have a childlike idea of a soul..idiotic idea rather since they are not children).

Anyway... evidence and a theist do those two things go together? I think not. Nail in the coffin...how many more nails do they need?

eoin5

lookinforpicnic wrote: »

It still is a theory by the way and a sketchy one.

Evidence for religious experiences due to the happenings in the brain... wow........!!!
Did someone forgot to tell a thiest that there is mountain of evidence (and zero to contrary) that all varieties of experience are ultimately due to the workings of the brain (oh i forgot they have a childlike idea of a soul..idiotic idea rather since they are not children).

Anyway... evidence and a theist do those two things go together? I think not. Nail in the coffin...how many more nails do they need?

I dont think its fair to dismiss anything just because its "the workings of the brain", especially not the possibility of souls existing.

Dades

eoin5 wrote: »

I dont think its fair to dismiss anything just because its "the workings of the brain", especially not the possibility of souls existing.

I think if the idea of a soul is dismissed it is due to the complete absence of any supporting evidence.

Hivemind187

lookinforpicnic wrote: »

Anyway... evidence and a theist do those two things go together? I think not. Nail in the coffin...how many more nails do they need?

How many theists are out there?

Mr. Presentable

This would be just as appropriate to the paranormal forum. If you take the word "god" out then it's just an unexplained feeling.

eoin5

Dades wrote: »

I think if the idea of a soul is dismissed it is due to the complete absence of any supporting evidence.

Its like dismissing string theory because no-one can see or measure anything that small. I guess you could call it soul theory

Hivemind187

eoin5 wrote: »

Its like dismissing string theory because no-one can see or measure anything that small. I guess you could call it soul theory

No, it would be a "soul inkling" not a theory. Look up what a theory is in scientific terms.;)

lostexpectation

its also seemed to be technique to help clear the mind so one could think better , how did it connected to all that mumbo jumbo