Judges stern warning to L drivers

Noopti

wil wrote:

I having passed my test am a member of the driving community licenced to drive on our roads. With a provisional you are licenced to learn only, NOT drive for work, NOT drive for leisure or social purposes, NOT where when or how you decide.

Surely most people learn by driving to friends (leisure) or maybe driving to occasions (social). What do you want people to do, drive to the end of the road a back? How else are people to learn how to drive competently without driving in ALL situations.

From RSA website:
"1. practise driving as much as possible on all types of road and in all types of traffic situations, including driving at night;
2. build up your driving experience and confidence before applying for your test. "

galah

galah wrote:

ehm, nevermind the whole license discussion (I learnt to drive in Germany...), what I don't understand is that people still drive their car while they're not insured...(I assume that, as long as you don't have a qualified driver with you as required by law, and cause an accident, your insurance will not pay either - correct?).

THAT'S scary!

And seriously, as long as almost no law is enforced on these roads, why should people change, and get their ass in gear to pass a test? (waiting time in Galway: 48 weeks. Not funny. But that's a different problem). As long as people get away with it, they will...

The provisionally licenced driver is not required to be with a qualified driver to be covered by insurance it is a matter for the guards etc to deal with. If you read your policy it states that you are covered once you had a licence at some point even if its now expired.

Gregor Samsa

Noopti wrote:

Surely most people learn by driving to friends (leisure) or maybe driving to occasions (social). What do you want people to do, drive to the end of the road a back? How else are people to learn how to drive competently without driving in ALL situations.

From RSA website:
"1. practise driving as much as possible on all types of road and in all types of traffic situations, including driving at night;
2. build up your driving experience and confidence before applying for your test. "

Some very selective quoting there, Noopti.

The RSA site clearly says:

1. Study carefully the Rules of the Road booklet
2. Seek the assistance of a good driving instructor

right before the two points you quote. (http://www.drivingtest.ie/preparing.html)


So what they're saying is "Get comprehensive professional driving instruction" not "Drive around as much as you want and see what happens".

these guidelines/suggestions are completely in line with the excellent point made by wil.

Schlemm

Was just talking to the insurance people about provisionally licenced drivers and liablility this evening...it's a legal issue rather than an insurance one. If somebody were hurt in an accident involving an unaccompanied provisional driver and the guards were called, then it'd be a different kettle of fish. Although provisional drivers who are held liable in car accidents probably have to suffer huge insurance premium increases, I think the fact that if they're liable in an accident speaks for itself and that had there been a licenced driver in the car at the time, perhaps the accident could've been avoided.

Whether or not insurance companies, when analysing a case, even give much weight to the fact that an unaccompanied provisionally licenced driver was completely or partially responsible for an incident due to the very fact that they were unaccompanied, I don't know. But personally I think that it should have much more bearing in insurance claims than it currenly does.

Guy:Incognito

Caliden wrote:

So what do I do if it's an emergency but I have no full licence holder to come with me?

The same as you would before you got your car because you dont have a drivers licence.

Guy:Incognito

Pipp wrote:

Jeepers, the holier than though attitude on here from some posters is unbelievable. If you were as law abiding and perfect as you like to think you are youd be wearing a halo and wings!!
Anyway, I want to make a point here:
My husband is on a provisional license, and I have a full license. I spent a fortune on lessons and passed first time.
He did the same and failed first time, he immediately re-applied for the test. Due to a bizarre timing conincedence he injured his hand quite badly the day before the second test. So he reapplied again.
Third time round there was a death in the family - a beloved uncle of my husbands. So he didnt do his test, the GP gave him a letter. He was truly devastated so the bloomin driving test was simply put aside.
Now, my main point is regading a point someone made about "not getting a job that requires you to drive if you have a prov license". That is the biggest load of nonsense I have had the misfortune to read on this normally quite incitive forum.
My husband has to drive 40 miles each way to work. He works shift work. If he were to lose his job he would find it very hard to get equivalent work that would not require a car. He tried to get a job locally but no go. So, he has to drive.
We have a mortgage, and if my husband was taken off the road for having a prov license, he would be unable to get to work, public transport doesnt run at 4am. He would simply be fired.
My salary isnt large enough to sustain both the mortgage and two car loans, so what would happen then??
He applied for the test again in June and still hasnt got a date for the test.
The entire system is nonsense, and people like my husband should be looked after and given every chance to earn their license without being bullied off the road.

His personal issues that prevented him from doing the tests are fairly exceptional in that its a long shot for things like that to happen numerous times.

On the work and drivng issue. Ireland is unique in that it allows him to operate like this. What would he do if he was livign in England under the same cimcumstances? Why would my opinion suddenly be valid?

Guy:Incognito

the_syco wrote:

Anyone with a full license can be a driving instructor. They don't have to be any good. And you get some crap ones..

Which is why I mentioned driving instructors and said it was a debate for another thread.

the_syco wrote:

There's this thing called the countryside, side, right, where there is no public transport, right, so how the f**k do they get from A to B for work? They drive.

Theres these things called other countries , right, where they have things called the countryside, right, and they do things the right way round , right, and still manage to not slip back to tge dark ages, right.

the_syco wrote:

Have you ever seen how they learn to drive? They learn, and then do the test. We learn, wait 12 f**king months, and then maybe, maybe get a test.

Everyone knows theres a waiting period for a test, it doesnt take a moron to apply for a test at the sam time as starting to learn, that gives you the whole waiting period to learn. Very simple if you dont dive into ar
guements and think for a minute.

the_syco wrote:

Oh, and for the record, driving without a fully licensed person is breaking the law..

Dont know what thats bits referrign to, no one said any different.

Noopti wrote:

From RSA website:
"1. practise driving as much as possible on all types of road and in all types of traffic situations, including driving at night;
2. build up your driving experience and confidence before applying for your test. "

Its assumed you have enough cop on to be doing the above while being supervised.

Noopti

Yeah, so you are supposed to get your mates/friends/family who have full licenses to accompany you the 36 weeks it takes to get a test while you practice/get on with life.
But if you can't, then get off the road. Give me a break.

I suppose all the people here up on their high horses never drove their cars on a provisional license without a full licensee accompanying them? Also, I would hazard a guess that some of the worst drivers out there hold full licenses, what with bad habits and a cocky attitude creeping in after time.

Just a reality check: Full License doth not mean "Great Driver". It just means you managed to pass a flaky test.

Yes, provisional holders should be applying for the test ASAP, but don't come in here saying they should not be on the road unless someone (who can take over the control of the car in an emergency? - what a joke!) is present.

Anan1

Noopti wrote:

Yeah, so you are supposed to get your mates/friends/family who have full licenses to accompany you the 36 weeks it takes to get a test while you practice/get on with life....

But if you can't, then get off the road. Give me a break.
Yes, provisional holders should be applying for the test ASAP, but don't come in here saying they should not be on the road unless someone (who can take over the control of the car in an emergency? - what a joke!) is present.

Why not? To put the question bluntly, why should your convenience come before my safety?

Guy:Incognito

Noopti wrote:

Just a reality check: Full License doth not mean "Great Driver". It just means you managed to pass a flaky test..

and Provisional licence does not mean "driving licence". It's a lerners permit (for want of a better name) that only permits you to driver while learning and accompanied.

Noopti wrote:

Yes, provisional holders should be applying for the test ASAP, but don't come in here saying they should not be on the road unless someone (who can take over the control of the car in an emergency? - what a joke!) is present.

Why not?, it's the law.How many other laws should we be allowed to ignore in the name of convenience?

commited

Great stuff.

Jo King

galah wrote:

ehm, nevermind the whole license discussion (I learnt to drive in Germany...), what I don't understand is that people still drive their car while they're not insured...(I assume that, as long as you don't have a qualified driver with you as required by law, and cause an accident, your insurance will not pay either - correct?).

THAT'S scary!

Your insurance can't use the fact that you as driver did not have a licence as a ground for refusing to pay a third party claim. (Dir 84.5 EEC). The insurer can sue you the driver for breach of contract and so recover any money they had to pay out.

gurramok

Is the learner\provisional driver situation here unique in developed countries in the world?
I've often wondered about it because a Polish colleague informed me that stricter western style standards were enforced in pre-communist times and still are regarding driving and how to learn today.

Thing is, getting a prov license after passing a theory test qualifies you to sit behind the wheel of a predominantly manual car country without ever getting a single lesson must be unique anywhere in the world?

I think the govt did say recently that their first goal was to have waiting test times within a few weeks and then sort out the system.(anecdotal evidence says that they are on their way to that)
If i was a learner now, i'd get to passing that test asap before it gets stricter like in other developed countries.

wil

Noopti wrote:

Yeah, so you are supposed to get your mates/friends/family who have full licenses to accompany you the 36 weeks it takes to get a test while you practice/get on with life.But if you can't, then get off the road. Give me a break.

I am sure you have loads of mates so shouldn't be a prob for you to find a few good enough to pass a flaky test that can help you out. Give yourself a break.

Noopti wrote:

I suppose all the people here up on their high horses never drove their cars on a provisional license without a full licensee accompanying them?

Never drove a car without an instructer, never owned a car before passing my test. Did however ride a quite tall horse once.

Noopti wrote:

Just a reality check:....

Real reality check - No one has and no one will say that a licenced driver is a "Great driver". Are you intentionally or conveniently missing the point? After passing a test they have proven they have legal right to be on the road unsupervised.
That is when you truly begin to learn. Is every doctor a great doctor the day they qualify? Can they practice before qualification?

An unlicenced driver hasnt even reached this minimal "flaky" level yet so has legally or officially proven nothing,
Or having failed, proven they shouldnt yet be on the road unsupervised.

Noopti wrote:

don't come in here saying they should not be on the road unless....

Judges proposed new signage "Dont come in here unlicenced and unsupervised"

Joking aside, taking advantage of the complacency on our roads is not funny.:eek:

craichoe

Stekelly wrote:

and Provisional licence does not mean "driving licence". It's a lerners permit (for want of a better name) that only permits you to driver while learning and accompanied.



Why not?, it's the law.How many other laws should we be allowed to ignore in the name of convenience?

Nope, its a license, permits are coming in later on next year.

Permits are different as there are more restrictions on permit holders than license holders.

the_syco

craichoe wrote:

I rang the RSA day on friday

the current waiting period for a cancellation is 1 month.

12 months my ar*e, if you really need it then send in a letter and get a cancellation.

As far as I know, you need a letter from your employer to apply for this thing?

Stekelly wrote:

Dont know what thats bits referrign to, no one said any different.

I was referring the bit that if you broke a law, the judge will ban you from the road for a year. As you're breaking the law by driving alone, the judge seems to be saying that if caught, you get banned for a year?

craichoe

the_syco wrote:

As far as I know, you need a letter from your employer to apply for this thing?

Yes, a letter from your employer saying you need that car to get to work, which is exactly the situation your husband is in ?

turbigo

Phone up and say you would like to check waiting times. Then ask for a cancellation. Worked for me. Had to cos employer didn't know I was on a provisional.

DonJose

turbigo wrote:

Had to cos employer didn't know I was on a provisional.

Where you displaying L plates on your car.