Natives Vs Blow-Ins - The Debate

Chinafoot

Right, on occasion in the forum we have seen an attitude of natives Vs blow-ins.
Personally I’d like it if we could have a proper discussion on the topic. There have been a few posters who haven’t been shy about their opinions and I’d be curious to see how everyone else feels on the matter.

If you regard yourself as a “native” of the area;
How do you feel about the increase in population in the North County Dublin area?
How do you feel about the people who have come to live in the area?

If you have recently moved to North County Dublin;
What made you decide to move here?
How do you perceive the “natives”?

If anyone would like to share any experiences they have had with people in NCD (be they “natives” or “blow-ins”), please do, however I don’t want ay of this “I heard from a fella in the pub who knows this girl who worked with a fella from….” First hand experiences only folks. Feel free to discuss anything else you feel is relevant to the topic. The above questions are just to get the ball rolling.

This thread will be closely watched and I would appreciate it if this could be done in an adult manner.

<Edited to add> Don't feel that you have to have a positive "I love everyone" attitude. If you disagree with the way things have gone in NCD or have had some bad experiences with natives/blow-ins, tell us. Just don't be deliberately insulting. That's all I ask

ixoy

Well I lived in Portmarnock from the time I was born until I was 16. Then the family moved to Sutton, I eventually moved out and recently have moved back to Portmarnock by the new Links development, which didn't exist when I was there.

I'm quite happy to see that the village of Portmarnock itself hasn't changed - there's still the Progress newsletter for example (it was more of a folded sheet back in the day), Tony still runs Centrepoint, the same Chinese take-away is still there, etc. I don't see any of the "blow ins" making life different here, despite the increase in numbers. I think the older end of Portmarnock has only been affected in terms of the busier train station.

I am concerned though that the large building work planned by the station (1000 new houses and apartments) will irrevocably change the nature of the land around Portmarnock and destroy the village nature that I like in favour of cramming as many people together as possible. I wouldn't like to see the quiet life that you can have here ruined permanently.

T-Maxx

We live in the 21st century in a multi-cultural society - like it or not.

Adapt or go extinct.

Cormster

I am also Portmarnock-born and bred, and continue to live in the area. I haven't come across too many "blow-ins", it seems to be many of the same faces - I don't work in the area however, so my perception may not be the most accurate . I think it would be mainly positive if we had a reasonable influx of "blow ins", it might add to the area . Of course the potential increase in traffic and increased strain on infrastructure would the only down side I could imagine. The above reference to the train station, nearby developments and increased number of people building in their corner garden plots are the only real differences I have noticed over the years.

Cormster

ixoy wrote:

I am concerned though that the large building work planned by the station (1000 new houses and apartments) will irrevocably change the nature of the land around Portmarnock and destroy the village nature that I like in favour of cramming as many people together as possible. I wouldn't like to see the quiet life that you can have here ruined permanently.

Hi Ixoy - have you encountered many problems (e.g. the increased traffic, poor parking) around that particular part of Portmarnock?

shoegirl

The vast majority of people who live in places like Portmarnock (and the same goes for most of North Co Dublin) come from suburban areas like Raheny, Artaine, Marino etc. They aren't true blow-ins in the real sense. Its not like somebody from Dundrum moving to Doneraile.

I think what people don't like though, is large scale building of apartment blocks, many of which are intended for the private rented sector, this I admit, does dramatically change the kind of locality that you are in. But its hard to say what proportion of it wouldn't happen in a more "family" oriented development of semi-Ds. When I grew up in the Rathbeale area of Swords, a large number of local houses were rented out, but it was mostly families who rented there.

Dizzyblonde

I've lived in Swords for almost 25 years and felt like a 'blow-in' for the first few years. Now I definitely feel like a native. It was a village with very few amenities when I came to live here so I welcome the increase in population as it's brought great infrastructure with it. Yes the traffic's bad but it's bad almost everywhere now.
I love the fact that it's multicultural now too, in my opinion the presence of people from different ethnic backgrounds is a plus.
I live in a family-orientated area and I'm not sure I'd like to be raising a family among the huge blocks of apartments. In some areas the mix of houses and apartments definitely hasn't been well planned.

Fingleberries

I'd probably label myself a native, because with exception of a few years here and there I've lived in the area most of my life. I work in the City Centre these days, and can't comment too much on the day to day life in the town.

Personally I don't have anything against anyone who wants to move into the area and I believe that everyone is welcome to live wherever they choose. I feel that all groups of people have been badly let down by poor planning and opportunistic property speculators / developers.

e.g. Large numbers of Apartments / Town Houses have been built to create a high density of housing without preparing the area for such a population boom. Local Amenities such as road, rail, schools, parks, etc., are seen at a lower priority by developers and planners because they don't generate anything much by the way of income.

I feel sorry for anyone who is deep in the heart of one of the newer housing estates in a town like Balbriggan, because it must be near impossible to provide directions to anybody who wants to come and visit, because there's no real thought that has gone into planning the layout. It just seems like whoever sold their field, built some houses and had to try to link up with the road in someone elses field.

I also feel sorry for the Postmen and Women of the area for the same reason

tbh

I'm 33 (hi!) and I've lived in Swords nearly all my life, apart from a few years living in town when I grew up, and a year in Oz.

It's a great question, and I don't really know if I think the growth has been a good thing or not. So, I'll just list the thoughts as they pop into my head.

Land: I do feel sad whenever I'm around the places I used to play in as a child and I see that they are gone forever, but that's just the way it works I suppose. I used to love "Mary's Shop" beside North St. school, and I loved that it lasted so long, but probably if North St. was the way it was when I was a boy now, I'd be frustrated that the shops wouldn't be open, and there would only be two of them. A lot of Swords is the same - the Jacko valley hasn't really changed at all, and I think the new Town park is nice, and will be lovely when the castle is finished and it gets all opened up.

It's also great to be able to go to the movies in Swords, and I remember as a kid, every summer there would be a rumour that a McD's would be opening, so it's nice that that finally happened

For me, the traffic is much the same - it was always chaotic, and developments and more cars just means that it's always stayed pretty much the same.

I miss shops like Clarkes (I know it's technically still there but we all know it's not the same without Gerry and Leo) and - oh god, I forgot the name - the old drapers on the main st. beside savages. I'm getting old

I guess it's tied up with being a child, I miss the old Swords but if I could go on holidays there, I'd probably be bored stupid.

i seem to remember Swords as being more a country town than a Dublin town, and that's changed now. The accent is different I also seem to remember people more proud of being from Swords, now people have bought houses here with no connection to the town, and no particular preference for it. Fair enough, it's just something that's changed. I heard a girl talking to her friend about how she'd bought a house "it's only in Swords, mind, but it's a first step " - and that surprised me.

Sorry for the long post. I recently got a copy of the plan for Swords in the post, and it started me thinking about how much the town had changed.
It's probably has less of a unique identity now, much like lots of small towns across Ireland, which is a shame, but it's great to have so many people living and working here now.

infinitejest

I'm not from Balbriggan. I moved here in Summer 2003. However, one of my earliest memories is from the beach in Balbriggan - probably in the summer of 1976/77 - on a day trip with the family. We also came out to Rush for picnics I worked for some time in Co Louth, so I feel a certain affinity for the North County Dublin area. When I bought, it was affordable, on a decent train line, and I liked the town.

I do think Fingal Co Co & local politicians have a lot to answer for in terms of planning (or lack of) in Balbriggan and other parts of North County Dublin, but NCD is not unique. Most of the new developments in Irish towns/cities seem badly planned - I think it is a symptom of a national problem. NCD suffers a little more because it is so close to Dublin city.

There was no need for so many apartments in the area, and by rezonong so much land, FCC made the area a magnet for investors. Renting neighbours are never as reliable as owner occupiers, and they frequently (in my opinion) don't have the same level of social investment in an area.

I like Balbriggan and the locals, and NCD (Skerries, Drogheda especially). I like my estate (in so called 'legoland') and most of my neighbours. (Not the neighbour who puts their rubbish in my bin, and who is silly enough to leave addressed envelopes for me to find - and who is the only one renting in my street - they are not from Balbriggan!)

I don't need people to 'feel sorry' for me and where I live. It sounds patronising! I receive regular post (mostly bills), China Garden also regularly call to the house ...even my dad found the house, and he's from the country

Infinitejest

Fingleberries wrote: »

I feel sorry for anyone who is deep in the heart of one of the newer housing estates in a town like Balbriggan, because it must be near impossible to provide directions to anybody who wants to come and visit, because there's no real thought that has gone into planning the layout. It just seems like whoever sold their field, built some houses and had to try to link up with the road in someone elses field.

I also feel sorry for the Postmen and Women of the area for the same reason

Unshelved

Does anyone think that a lot of people who bought in places like the new estates in Balbriggan or, say, Skerries Rock in Skerries just did so to get their foot on the first rung of the property ladder and are biding their time until they can move back to Dublin again?

I know a couple of people who bought in Balbriggan, and apart from sleeping there, they have no interaction with the area at all. They don't socialise there, they haven't joined any clubs, they don't even know their neighbours - they just bought there because it was affordable, and will put their duplex back on the market as soon as they have the money to move back to where their families are - Raheny in one case, and I think Glasnevin in the other.

It seems a shame to move to an area just because it's cheap - but it's inevitable when you're in a society that says it's more important to buy somewhere - anywhere - rather than get left behind in the property boom.

shoegirl

tbh wrote: »

Land: I do feel sad whenever I'm around the places I used to play in as a child and I see that they are gone forever, but that's just the way it works I suppose. I used to love "Mary's Shop" beside North St. school, and I loved that it lasted so long, but probably if North St. was the way it was when I was a boy now, I'd be frustrated that the shops wouldn't be open, and there would only be two of them. A lot of Swords is the same - the Jacko valley hasn't really changed at all, and I think the new Town park is nice, and will be lovely when the castle is finished and it gets all opened up.

It's also great to be able to go to the movies in Swords, and I remember as a kid, every summer there would be a rumour that a McD's would be opening, so it's nice that that finally happened

For me, the traffic is much the same - it was always chaotic, and developments and more cars just means that it's always stayed pretty much the same.

I miss shops like Clarkes (I know it's technically still there but we all know it's not the same without Gerry and Leo) and - oh god, I forgot the name - the old drapers on the main st. beside savages. I'm getting old

I guess it's tied up with being a child, I miss the old Swords but if I could go on holidays there, I'd probably be bored stupid.

i seem to remember Swords as being more a country town than a Dublin town, and that's changed now. The accent is different I also seem to remember people more proud of being from Swords, now people have bought houses here with no connection to the town, and no particular preference for it. Fair enough, it's just something that's changed. I heard a girl talking to her friend about how she'd bought a house "it's only in Swords, mind, but it's a first step " - and that surprised me.

Sorry for the long post. I recently got a copy of the plan for Swords in the post, and it started me thinking about how much the town had changed.
It's probably has less of a unique identity now, much like lots of small towns across Ireland, which is a shame, but it's great to have so many people living and working here now.

The drapers was Taylors.
The Valley wasn't developed as most of it is in public ownership.
Agreed about Clarkes - as far as I recall Leo/Gerry retired.
You are quite right about a local accent - there was one indeed at one point that was quite distinct.
Yes, Swords was almost a "country town" - to such an extent that in the late 1960s when my parents moved there, they remember there was a "half day" when businesses closed early. Thats gone of course in most country towns, but even back as far as 2 years ago when I lived in Midleton (which had an uncanny resemblance to Swords as I remember it in the late 1970s and early 1980s) there was at least one shop taking a half day on the main street.

You probably would remember the little shop (was it called the Hawthorn or something like that?) that was on the Main St somewhere around where the Ulster Bank is now - that was dinky. Plus Mongeys garage, which was as country a garage as I recall it.

Some of the planning decisions have been and continue to be truly horrendous - the worst has to have been the levelling of the original "town park" which was only opened in the 1980s for the Civic offices, not to mention the monstrosity they are building at the front of the old schools in Seatown. As for the levelling of the original credit union building on North St - why wasn't that listed? Another bad one was building the apartment block (fondly described by one of my Rivervalley relatives as "Rapunzels Tower") practically on top of the original historical well on the Well Road.

I seem to recall much, much worse traffic in Swords before they built the bypass. Also public transport was considerably worse outside of the main routes - Rivervalley initially had nothing at all and after a few years they managed to get 1 bus a day.

The problem as I see it - and I was born and bred in Swords and lived there for 26 years - is that the town has become so big and spread out there is little local identity, especially in the humungous sprawling estates with little central focus. Applewood at least has a "centre" - other areas are not so fortunate. Rivervalley is still georgraphically very cut off from the rest of the town by virtue of the valley - there is still a legitimate case for a bridge over the valley at some point to link Rivervalley to the Brackenstown Road.

shoegirl

Unshelved wrote: »

Does anyone think that a lot of people who bought in places like the new estates in Balbriggan or, say, Skerries Rock in Skerries just did so to get their foot on the first rung of the property ladder and are biding their time until they can move back to Dublin again?

I know a couple of people who bought in Balbriggan, and apart from sleeping there, they have no interaction with the area at all. They don't socialise there, they haven't joined any clubs, they don't even know their neighbours - they just bought there because it was affordable, and will put their duplex back on the market as soon as they have the money to move back to where their families are - Raheny in one case, and I think Glasnevin in the other.

It seems a shame to move to an area just because it's cheap - but it's inevitable when you're in a society that says it's more important to buy somewhere - anywhere - rather than get left behind in the property boom.

Yes but it works both ways. I know lots of people who bought in County Louth who intend at some point moving back to North County Dublin! If the place is likeable enough people will end up staying. If the place, however, has little or no infrastructure and stays that way, well then yes, people will leave it en masse. One of the few advantages of rapidly building up an area (usually without the appropriate infrastructure) is that the pressure to create it usually results in a response. The danger at the moment is in a falling property market, developers may simple choose to let these areas rot. I reckon far more people will move back into north county Dublin due to its proximity to the city from Louth and Meath than will leave it to return to the city.

ixoy

Cormster wrote: »

Hi Ixoy - have you encountered many problems (e.g. the increased traffic, poor parking) around that particular part of Portmarnock?

Yep. There's a lot of people who park on the footpath (illegally) outside the Links. Many of these people wouldn't even have the courtesy to park flushly against the wall and are parked halfway across the footpath, blocking it for anyone who might be in a wheelchair or pushing a pram. Those people seriously irritate me and it's a sort of callous thoughtlessness that I don't recall before.

liverbird

Unshelved wrote: »

Does anyone think that a lot of people who bought in places like the new estates in Balbriggan or, say, Skerries Rock in Skerries just did so to get their foot on the first rung of the property ladder and are biding their time until they can move back to Dublin again?

I know a couple of people who bought in Balbriggan, and apart from sleeping there, they have no interaction with the area at all. They don't socialise there, they haven't joined any clubs, they don't even know their neighbours - they just bought there because it was affordable, and will put their duplex back on the market as soon as they have the money to move back to where their families are - Raheny in one case, and I think Glasnevin in the other.

It seems a shame to move to an area just because it's cheap - but it's inevitable when you're in a society that says it's more important to buy somewhere - anywhere - rather than get left behind in the property boom.

I did , i had to start somewhere and balbriggan by far was the nicest areas to purchase, on a train line, good facilities services etc
I will miss balbriggan but its inevitable once the kids arrive that i shall want to be in an area that can

1 provide my children with a place in their local school
2 be nearer parents
3 be nearer friends
4 be nearer job in city centre

Dizzyblonde

I was in a furniture shop in Airside during the summer and overheard a conversation between a young couple with a child and a woman who hadn't seen them for a while.
She asked them were they living locally, and the man replied 'Oh yes, we're just up the road.......in Stamullen' !!!??? :eek:
Sign of the times?

Unshelved

Link from the accommodation and property board
www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055168181

Are the blow-ins blowing right back out again?

MysticalSoul

I bought in Portmarnock 18 months ago, and I love it there. The guy in the local chipper knows me now for my regular Sunday treat . I find the people in the area friendly enough, however due to not driving don't have access to the Sports & Leisure Club in the area. I like the way St. Anne's Parish have so many events that are ongoing, to try and encourage people to get together. I am a true blow-in, having been reared in the South-East of the country . I love the fact that the sea is only a 20 minute walk away.

Like another poster has said, I too think it is inconsiderate when people park on footpaths. In the complex I live in now (Seabrook Manor), it always seems to be people who are visiting who don't show respect. Have seen people park the full car up on the footpath :eek::eek::eek:. I do believe more trains are needed during peak times though, as the seats are already taken up by the time it gets to Portmarnock (which is only the second stop).

ixoy

irishamethyst wrote: »

I find the people in the area friendly enough, however due to not driving don't have access to the Sports & Leisure Club in the area.

Sure it's only a 25-minute walk - the exercise on the way to exercise will do you good. It's been a long while since I used it, but I'm sure the place is still adequate.
I'm just 5 mins away from you, although I originally grew up in Carrick Court (which is the housing estate you can see about 500m or so behind St. Anne's estate).

I like the way St. Anne's Parish have so many events that are ongoing, to try and encourage people to get together.

True - the Progress newsletter. Back in the day it was printed on a folded A4 page..

Have seen people park the full car up on the footpath :eek::eek::eek:. I do believe more trains are needed during peak times though, as the seats are already taken up by the time it gets to Portmarnock (which is only the second stop).

You've seen? It happens every single fupping day outside the Links and the cars would drive down the footpath towards you. This morning, one particular incosiderate f**ker parked in such a way that he blocked the entire footpath meaning that if you were in a wheelchair, or pushing a pram, you'd be forced out onto the road to get around him. That manner of person we don't need anywhere, least of all near here.