Aer Lingus threatens to suspend all pilots

jonny68

Aer Lingus threatens to suspend all pilots
Paul Anderson

Aer Lingus today said it will suspend all pilots refusing to co-operate with its plans for creating its new Belfast hub from next week.

In a letter sent to the pilots, Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion said all pilots must confirm their intent to "engage unreservedly" in work related to the hub by next Monday.

"We are going to sit on our hands and wait for management to shut down the operation and then see how they explain it to the shareholders
Impact spokesman The letter says: "If you choose not to confirm your willingness, you can put forward in writing, to be received no later than 1pm on Monday 15 th October 2007, reasons why you choose not to do so.

"It is important that you understand that if you fail to confirm your willingness to unreservedly engage in your full range of duties, by 1pm on Monday 15 th October 2007 you will be suspended from the payroll from 3am on Tuesday 16 th October 2007."

Pilots are refusing to co-operate with the plan because the company intends to pay wages at local rates rather than on the same terms as those based at airports in the Republic.

Four pilots were suspended yesterday for failure to co-operate with recruitment and training for the new Belfast operation and a fifth was suspended today. The pilots had signed up for training and recruitment duties additional to their piloting duties.

While these duties attracted extra pay, the pilots' union advised those members to resign from their training duties and continue piloting.

Mr Mannion's letter says those in receipt of the training allowance are expected to engage in screening, assessment, interviewing and training of job applicants candidates for the Belfast base.

It also says that all pilots are expected to fly with any new recruits and attend any training courses related to the development of the new hub.

Impact insisted today the non-co-operation policy would continue.

"Progress has been made in negotiating those terms, pilots have accepted that pay and conditions at the Belfast base will be different.

"However, further negotiation is necessary in order to bring the matter to a conclusion. Until then, the result of the pilot's ballot remains valid," a spokesman said.

The union described the latest threat in a row which relates to the company's €20-million cost-saving plan as an "act of madness [which] will disrupt passengers, damage the airline's reputation and impact on shareholder value "

"A mass suspension of pilots from the payroll, which will effectively shut the airline down," the spokesmand said.

The airline insisted last night that it would not enter into talks with pilots' representatives unless they lifted the ban in participating in the airline's recruitment process for new staff for the Belfast base.

In the Dáil this morning, Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore angrily denounced the Government's failure to maintain an influential presence on the Aer Lingus board of directors.

He also said the Government should have a definite plan for resolving the industrial relations difficulties at the company.

The Labour Relations Commission is understood to have begun contacting the parties in a bid to start negotiations.

The Atlantic Connectivity Alliance (ACA), which is planning to take part in a mass protest against the decision in Limerick later this month, criticised the claim that the Government cannot intervene.

Spokesman Tony Brazil said the decision to move to Belfast "defies commercial logic" because of the level of competition Aer Lingus will face on the route.

"If the Government won't move to honour the commitment it gave last year before Aer Lingus went public that it would protect this strategic service, then it must still act on the grounds that it is obliged to protect its investment in the company, which it holds on behalf of the people of Ireland," Mr Brazil said.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1010/breaking3.htm

jonny68

Aer Lingus are becoming every bit as bad as Ryanair,they are an absolute disgrace.

highlydebased

If Dermot Mannion carries on with this carry on, the airline wont be long shutting down. Dont know how he is still in a job...handled the current issues very badly

FlutterinBantam

Mannion is dead right.

Aer Lingus have been in the news for the last two years going on and on and on with talks,discussions,negotiations,strikes,threats of strikes,impending strikes.

Obviously money is beginning to run out and shareholder confidence has dwindled.

Cost base is way too high,work practices are way too restricted to carry the fare structure.

Mannion has no option but to say enough is enough,its sink or swim.

I guarantee when/if the pilots are sorted out ,you will have the cabin crew in dispute.

Its plain as plain can be that those fare structures cannot support the costs of providing the schedule.

silverharp

the unions have overstepped the mark by not wanting the airline to have local pay conditions in belfast. this implies that another airline can go in and undercut aerlingus. a real head in the sand attitude if you ask me. DB scheme are going to bankrupt alot of older companies in the years ahead, you would think the staff would want less new staff with their heads in the trough.

FlutterinBantam

DublinWriter

One word - Sabena.

FlutterinBantam

Another word-Swissair

highlydebased

Another two pilots suspended this evening...

testicle

Mannion should do what Reagan did in 1981 and fire every single person that goes on strike.

seamus

Bloody pilots. "If they're not on our team, I don't want to play any more".

The head of the pilot's union let it slip very near the start of this whole thing. When the pilots agreed to Aer Lingus's plans, they were perfectly happy to have a hub in a "foreign country". They just expected "foreign" to mean "eastern european". Now that the foreign country is on the same landmass as Dublin, they've thrown their toys out of the pram.

Lesson: You can't cry just because you didn't read the small print. Suck it up.

Foggy43

The issue is the compamy pension scheme. I do not know the full facts but........

Aer Lingus pilots have every right to be worried about this. In the UK these 'Company Pension' schemes that all thought were safe have turned to disaster. All it took was a major world wide recession. We all know there will be more of those.

Aer Lingus may end up with a situation where the pilots in Belfast having to work 10 to 15 years longer than their Dublin counterparts to have the same value pension or contribute a whole lot more in Belfast.

Mention pensions and retirement age in the UK and blood pressures soar! Stop and think how financially secure you will be when you retire.

GUIGuy

What has the pension situation of UK workers got to do with an Irish trade union?? If a person relocates to the UK that's their choice. They get slighter lower pay with lower house prices and lower taxes... so anyone that wants to transfer is making a decision. The unions are unbelievable arrogant... do they think they are new republicans trying to take over the north or something? I wonder will they expect that pilots based in Belfast will pay Irish income tax too?? :rolleyes: By trying to extend their reach where it doesn't belong the unions have walked both sides into a position where neither side can back down without loosing face.
Mannion is not trying to 'break' the unions... they've just made an issue out of something that's none of their business.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

philcsl

Foggy43 wrote: »

The issue is the compamy pension scheme. I do not know the full facts but........

Aer Lingus pilots have every right to be worried about this.

Of course they are worried, they are screwing up their own pension and only have themselves to blame...

Last October the Aer Lingus Pilots Union bought 10,000,000 in Aer Lingus at €3.04 per share to give them a 2% stake in the company (trying to block the Ryanair takeover). Today these shares are worth €2.34 each and are falling - they have dropped 10c since the unions started with their usual sh*t this week.

If they're so worried about their pension - which they have so far taken a €7,000,000 loss since they bought Aer Lingus shares - they will do the job they're paid for and stop trying to hold a company to ransom which will send the company share price further south.

seamus

Foggy43 wrote: »

Aer Lingus may end up with a situation where the pilots in Belfast having to work 10 to 15 years longer than their Dublin counterparts to have the same value pension or contribute a whole lot more in Belfast.

I don't see how that's any of the Irish pilots' business. I work in a multinational, but I don't demand the same pay and conditions as my US or UK counterparts. Likewise, if they're getting a raw deal, that's their problem not mine.

philcsl

seamus wrote: »

I don't see how that's any of the Irish pilots' business. I work in a multinational, but I don't demand the same pay and conditions as my US or UK counterparts. Likewise, if they're getting a raw deal, that's their problem not mine.

I agree.. The pilots in Northern Ireland APPLIED FOR THAT JOB with those conditions. They're happy to take less pay, if they were not they would apply elsewhere. Irish unions are crippling Aer Lingus with ridiculous strike threats every other week.

MOL runs a very successful company because there are NO UNIONS. If you don't like the pay or conditions in any company quit your job and take one in a company which does give you everything you want. If there is no other job available to you with those conditions then be glad of the job you have ESPECIALLY in Aer Lingus where there are already far to many staff.

FlutterinBantam

philcsl wrote: »

I agree.. . If there is no other job available to you with those conditions then be glad of the job you have ESPECIALLY in Aer Lingus where there are already far to many staff.

I would have to take a little issue on that Philo.Its not staff numbers that is the main problem in AL ,its what they do,and how they do it.

There is a huge a overtime culture in operational areas.Due to work practice history built up over the years it would not be uncommon to have a sizeable proportion of any particular shift on upwards of 40 Euro an hour.Productivity will be low and extremely costly,and certainly not sustainable in the current low cost model which is now AL.
This ,in my opinion, was a big factor in the pullout from the SNN-LHR route.

Willie Walsh was about to start REAL cost saving before he left e.g. outsourcing certain areas.
Looks like Dermot Mannion has now come to that point with the pilots.

mickoneill30

There was a guy on from the DUP (I think) on Newstalk this morning saying that 4 times the amount of qualified people Aer Lingus needs in the north have applied for the available positions. He said the contracts on offer were comparable with other UK operators. How much more do the Irish guys get paid? Why?

FlutterinBantam

Jeffrey Donaldson Min for Transport(I think)

Reason is historical/cost of living etc.

Which is why Mannion is so keen to start in BFS with a CLEAN SLATE.

Thats the important one....green field site..no baggage/attachments/200 page rule book and stuff;)

cp251

Lot of ignorance shown here. The problem is not so much the pay as pensions and terms and conditions. By employing pilots there on different terms the risk is that in the long run, it will damage the Ts & Cs of original pilots. Simply it works like this. Once BFS is set up. Next base might be in Spain, lower pay, different or no pension. Then Poland, good pay for Polish pilots might be starvation wages for Dublin pilots.

Now Dublin is the 'high cost' base and naturally an attempt will be made to minimise costs either by changing the Ts & C's of new hires or by simply running down the Dublin base by rostering cheaper foreign pilots in and out of Dublin.

Ryanair has a different method. They insist on all their pilots work under Irish legislation and because there is no union the have gradually eroded to conditions and pay of their pilots to the point where morale is rock bottom. As for the glib comment.
'If you don't like the pay or conditions in any company quit your job and take one in a company which does give you everything you want.'

Go where? It not like moving from one office to another down the road. They are all at it, there is a determined effort by airline management everwhere to reduce Ts & Cs. Plus a move often means overseas, with a loss of seniority.

We should be supporting the Aer Lingus pilots. Mannion is making a determined effort to undermine the pilot corps. One other point, Aer Lingus pilots earn the going rate for the job. They are not the best paid pilots out there, ironically.

FlutterinBantam

Several firms have closed recently in Ireland with large job losses.
Building industry is at the stage where full employment is no longer the norm.
Thousands of people are working long hours and difficult situations just to support themselves and their families.

I would respectfully suggest that the general public has many more deserving cases for their sympathy and support, than Aer Lingus pilots.

Ignorance cuts both ways.

daveirl

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juuge

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I see so Aer Lingus is now your company.
It has been mine and everyone elses taxes that have supported Aer Lingus for years. A company I might add that has still got a 1950's semi state mentality. Let's get one thing straight, Aer Lingus pilots are no more than jumped up bus drivers who somehow believe they are special. Aer Lingus cabin crews believe they are something special also and I can assure you that having travelled the world both in the cockpit and as a passenger,and experienced more than my fair share of airlines, Aer Lingus is way down the list. Get a grip of yourselves and realise your protectionist days are numbered.

seamus

erm....did you read daveirl's post?

juuge

seamus wrote: »

erm....did you read daveirl's post?

You are of course correct - I misread the post completly - my sentiments still stand however.

Muggy Dev

For anyone interested here is the link to the EI thread on the professional pilots forum:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295501

Boy those guys live in a bubble!

It will be interesting to see how today´s talks pan out. IALPA are really up against it now.If EI shut the airline down next week then even if the Belfast row is cleared up soon after,Mannion will keep the shop closed until SIPTU and IMPACT sign up to the full implementation of the 20 million cost cutting plan by christmas.

Excluding the Irish government and the EI staff shareholders the company will have the full backing of it´s institutional shareholders plus Ryanair.The company themselves have described the present situation as a "watershed" and would appear to hold all the cards.The issue for the company is (and has always been?) the right to manage.

The resolution to this situation may well provide a template for the much needed and long overdue reform of our own bloated and inefficient public service sector.

Lets hope so.

daveirl

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RoundyMooney

Oh yes, when it cost twice the average industrial wage to fly from Cork to Heathrow.

I still read pprune from time to time, it's usually an interesting insight into the mindsets that are still all too prevalent in modern aviation.

cp251

Aer Lingus pilots are no more than jumped up bus drivers who somehow believe they are special.

I mentioned ignorance and there is a classic example of stupidity and ignorance. Next time you fly somewhere, think about those jumped up bus drivers up front and pray to God they are good at their job.

Maybe Doctors are jumped up paramedics, Police are jumped up security guards, Architects are jumped up draughtsmen. Or maybe you haven't a clue what your're talking about.

Here's another PPRuNe thread. It relates to Ryanair but this is what Aer Lingus is aiming for. Note posts 1 and 2 and ask yourself if you would be prepared to put up with those conditions. Read post no 19 too.

Remember too, that to get to the point where they offer you this contract you had to pay them 25,000 Euro to train you. That doesn't include the likely 100,000 Euro it cost you to become a pilot in the first place.

Note also that Ryanair asks you where you want to be based. But you could end up anywhere in Europe.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=276881&highlight=ryanair&page=2

FlutterinBantam

[QUOTE=m:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295501

.[/QUOTE]


Jeebus on the wooden Cross!!!!

Do Neanderthals like those dummies STILL exist.????

I hope Mannion nails them to the floor,because the amount of upset and angst the have caused the general flying public is nothing short of reckless.